Replies

1. 
   MarkRoderick | Apr 04, 2005 05:04pm | #1

   Two issues.

   One, you might have a bad supplier, meaning they're selling you wood that is not as dry as it's supposed to be or is case hardened or has some other defect. You could invest in a relatively inexpensive moisture meter and take it along to the lumberyard.

   But more important, no matter how good the lumberyard is, my experience is that all wood shrinks when it gets home and acclimates to your house. You shouldn't plan to build anything with it for at least a few weeks after bringing it home.

1. 
   Kendal | Apr 04, 2005 05:17pm | #2

   this supplier is actually a "woodworkers store" so they supply all the exotics, etc. I will definately get a tester as you suggest to confirm this. What should the moisture content be?
   On the other point, I am not waiting as long as you suggest for the wood to season. My concern with that is I live in Tennessee and was worried that the humidity could play an adverse role if I waited to work with the wood too long. Any thoughts?
   Thanks!

1. 
   Glaucon | Apr 04, 2005 05:37pm | #3

   I agree with the first reply.  The longer you can have wood sitting in your shop, generally the better.  You might also try experimenting a bit- buy several different types of wood ( just a few board feet of each) and bring them home.  Measure the moisture at the time of purchase, then mill them. 

   I usually do two millings: a prep and a final.  For example, starting wuth a 4/4, I'll mill it to ~7/8 and then sticker it for 4-7 days (it depends a bit on the time of year).  Then I'll mill it to 3/4.  In each case joint an edge and a face, then plane it on either side (end over end) to avoid stressing the wood.  Check the moisture content after both millings and consider a fork test.  This will cost you maybe $20 total and a week's time, but you might find that certain woods at that supplier may be inferior and this could save you a lot of time and money in the future.

   Glaucon

1. 
   Kendal | Apr 04, 2005 05:41pm | #4

   Excellent input. One question I do have though is on first milling, my 8/4 warped and twisted---so I am loosing quite a bit of wood to mill down as you suggest. Thanks for the input.

1. 
   Glaucon | Apr 04, 2005 06:39pm | #7

   It sounds as if the wood you have to select from is a bit sad.  My own experience is that woodworking stores generally are both pricey and have less of a selection.  You might want to try a mill or sawyer in your area.  If you post a thread asking for suggestions for your location, I'm sure you'll get a boat load of advice.  I learned my sources from other woodworkers in my area- I'd never have found them in the yellow pages.

   Glaucon

2. 
   Kendal | Apr 04, 2005 07:14pm | #8

   Thanks!
   I will post right away.

2. 
   MarkRoderick | Apr 04, 2005 06:01pm | #5

   You should buy the book Understanding Wood by Hoadley. It's a must-read for all woodworkers.

   In terms of the "right" moisture content of the lumber, it depends on the relative humidity of the environment where the furniture will be put. Ideally you could buy wood exactly as dry as your dining room, but that's never possible. So you try to get it as close as possible.

   The same is true of your shop. If your shop is really wet then it doesn't do much good letting the wood acclimate there, because as soon as you build the furniture and put it in your dining room it's going to dry out and move around like crazy. You want the two environments to be approximately equal.

   There is a chart in Hoadley's book - sort of the most important chart in woodworking - showing the relative moisture content of hardwoods at a given humidity level. So you (1) figure out what the average humidity level will be in the environment where the furniture will be used, (2) look at this chart and see what moisture content wood has at that humidity level, and (3) try to buy wood with approximately that moisture content. All that is subject to variables and easier said than done, but that's the basic idea.

1. 
   Kendal | Apr 04, 2005 06:17pm | #6

   thanks for the great advice. I will indeed look for this book. my shop/garage is fully insulated and my heating and air units sit in there too. this allows it to be quite comfortable in all weather conditions and isn't too bad a place for wood to hang out. I really agree with what has been said earlier; A combo of too much moisture at the source and my impatience to start working! Thanks to all for the input and please add to it if something comes to mind.
   Kendal

2. 
   DonaldCBrown | Apr 04, 2005 07:36pm | #9

   When you refer to milling, I am guessing that includes planing as well as cutting into smaller pieces.

   What do you do with the boards while you are contemplating your next move? If you stack them for several days, there is a possibility that the exposed side will absorb moisture from the air while the unexposed side remains the same. That would certainly lead to warping, as the wetter side expands and the drier one doesn't.

   If that is the cause of your warping, it can probably be corrected by arranging the stored boards so that air can circulate equally on all sides.

1. 
   Kendal | Apr 04, 2005 07:50pm | #10

   Thank you for weighing in. Mainly "milling" in this case refers to making the stock into smaller or thinner pieces. The warping is occuring when I do this, not really after I have made them smaller. I will take to heart the stacking process you mention as I generally haven't been that careful. Thanks again
   Kendal

1. 
   Glaucon | Apr 04, 2005 08:13pm | #11

   I think we are referring to "stickering".  For example, say you have 4 boards, each 5 x 24 x 4/4 that you are going to form into a 19 x 20 panel.  Joint an edge and a face, and then plane to ~7/8, taking wood from either side.  Stack the boards as follows: on a shelf or table lay out 3 pieces of scrap wood, each say 1 x 6 x 2/4- put them 10" apart.  Lay the first baord on top (like a railroad raiol on to ties).  On top of that board, place 3 more scraps, 10" apart- alternate the boards and the scraps.  Now air will circulate around the boards on all sides and this will help prevent warping. 

   Also, make certain that the wood you are milling doesn't dry too quickly.  If you buy wood that has been stored in a barn or warehouse in Florida in the summer, and they bring it into a workshop that is air conditioned and dehumidified, it can lose moisture very quickly and shrink, warp and bow.

   Glaucon

1. 
   Kendal | Apr 04, 2005 08:23pm | #12

   I had seen that word and now I know what "stickering" is! Thanks for all the great input!

1. 
   hammer1 | Apr 05, 2005 12:38am | #13

   After reading some of your replies, I wondered if you are trying to resaw thicker stock into thinner stock. I don't know a better way to get bananas then to saw an 1 1/2" piece into two 3/4". Or a 10" wide board into two 5" pieces. There is a dynamic tension in a sawn piece of wood that seems to be enhanced with kiln drying. When you saw it in half, this tension is changed and often leads to bowing or warping. This is one of the reasons people use splitters on the table saw, the wood can pinch as it is sawn or open up. This rarely happens when sawing a small amount off an edge, for example. The same thing can happen if you plane more off one side of a board than the other. Acclimating and sticking won't help with this tension release. You are better to buy your lumber closer to the sizes you wish to use. This doesn't happen with every piece but it is much more likely when actually sawing in half, in either direction. Sticking is very important after each milling step that is left overnight. When you bring lumber home from a heated store, it will likely be dryer, than after you leave it in the shop for a few days. The sticking will allow all sides to be exposed to the prevalent conditions. Keep the stickers in a straight row to each other.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

2. 
   Kendal | Apr 05, 2005 04:37am | #16

   Thanks for your insight. I should have stated it just like you did! I am indeed attempting to NOT create bananas!! I am doing some resawing AND spliting boards in two. The bananas occurred mainly when I attempted to cut a 7" wide by 8/4 board into thirds. this is necessary for the type of design I am doing (2 1/8 by 2 1/8 corner posts for end-tables). You can understand why the bananas weren't welcome. The wood was sold to me as kiln dried so it's nice to see someone talk about this issue with kiln dried wood.
   With all that said, is there any remedy for this. With so many bandsaws out there I'm certainly not the first to encounter this. Thanks again for all the great input!
   Kendal

3. 
   Woodhead | Apr 05, 2005 01:46am | #14

   This is a great discussion. I've only been woodworking for 5 years, but have experienced all the wood moving hassles mentioned. I was lucky enough to be involved in the milling of my current timber stockpile (here in southwest Australia) over the last 10 years. The growth tension in wood is amazing. Some slabs we cut would literally explode right after cutting. With a BANG! Split right down the middle

   Unless the timber we milled was properly stripped (stickered) and weighted for drying, it went beserk. The bigger the original log, usually the more stable / less stressed the timber. Also "back sawn" versus "quarter sawn" timber varies greatly in stresses and drying stability. By looking at the growth rings in your lumber, you can tell if it's quarter sawn or back sawn.

   The timber I'm now working with has been air dried for nearly 8 years. It's stabilised to the local conditions at about 12-15% moisture content. But after dressing, the timber will still move. This stuff is"alive" and just never sits absolutely still. I've found it helps once the furniture is finally built and a finishing / sealing coat is applied (hence less moisture uptake or loss). I make furniture for the local area, so it's stable for this climate. But I've heard tales of furniture shipped out from here to drier climates and buckling out of shape. So the furniture is shipped back for "repair", but by the time it arrives "home", it's back to normal.

1. 
   BoardmanWI | Apr 05, 2005 04:33am | #15

   Regardless of drying procedures, lots of wood, probably all, has some internal stress that relieve with machining.  I remember the very first time I cut some hardwood (oak) on a table saw, and was stunned when an hour later it was no longer a straight edge.  Major limbs growing off trunks, or wind-blown "bent" trunks have those stresses just waiting to be released.  It's always best to skin an edge off rough stock and let it "release," or rough cut stock oversize to allow for it.

   I'm working on some book matched walnut that has a section where a major limb grew off the trunk.  The figure is phenominal because of the stress rays and grain changes, but it also s dead giveaway that it was going to "jump" after the first planer passes.

4. 
   BarryO | Apr 05, 2005 04:52am | #17

   I've always kept this excerpt from Tag Frid Teaches Woodworking in mind:

   I would never buy wood that is jointed and thickness-planed, because it would warp badly before I got it made into furniture ... When using solid wood, it is important to work as fast as possible, from the time the wood is cut, jointed and planed until all the joints are made.

   So I try not to do the final milling on a piece unless I'm going to cut the joints in it real soon.

   Once the joints are cut, things will tend to straighten out when you join the pieces. 

    

5. 
   ron4 | Apr 05, 2005 01:25pm | #18

   Generally any wood is not going to dry uniformly throughout. This can cause particular problems when resawing because you are exposing surfaces which have a different moisture content then the surface. The way I learned to mill lumber is to

   1. give a prilimary surface jointing and planeing to prepare for resawing

   2. resaw as much as possible over the final desired thickness

   3. sticker and allow the wood to settle for at least a day(more if possible) 

   4. Rejoint and plane to surface to final thickness.

    

   Some I have added and extra joint, plane, sticker and rest step if I feel the wood is moving to much. This has worked pretty well for me except for that occasional nasty piece of wood

1. 
   Kendal | Apr 05, 2005 03:44pm | #19

   I deeply appreciate all the fantastic advice I am receiving! Thanks! I will continue to look and see what else might show up. What a great resource for woodworkers!
   Kendal

6. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 05, 2005 05:03pm | #20

   Wood will gain or lose moisture based on where it is stored. Even it was kiln dried to 5-6%, it will gain moisture if it is then stored in a higher relative humidity. This is normal. The key is to stack and sticker the wood in your shop and let it acclimate for some number of weeks. Then prepare your wood in steps. First joint and plane to slightly oversize and again let the wood sit for further acclimation. Then, prepare the wood for actual dimensions.

   Howie.........
7. 
   CajunDan | Apr 05, 2005 05:35pm | #21

   A lot of woodworkers have given you some good advice above. However, living in Houston where 80+ percent humidity is common presents some additional challenges. Here is what works for me.

   First, buy your wood well in advance and let it sit in your shop for several weeks. At least two, preferably a month. This allows the wood to equilibrate to your shop humidity.

   Next, always pre-mill your pieces to rough dimension. Mark and cut out each of your pieces. Cut to length, leaving at least 1/2" long. Rip (preferably on a bandsaw) about 1/4" oversize, then label each piece. Stack these pieces in your shop for another couple of days. The pieces will warp as they lose their internal stresses. When they are finished warping, then you can mill to final size.

   This method has eliminated most of the problems I had when I first started. You will still have problems with the occasional piece of wild or reaction wood. The new FWW Power Tool issue has a very good article on pre-milling. In fact, it is one of FWW's best issues in a long time IMHO.

   I hope this helps. Good luck and be patient!

   Dan

    

1. 
   Kendal | Apr 05, 2005 07:47pm | #22

   Thanks for the additional info. It seems the common thread is to buy the wood and let it sit for a while in the shop. Next, pre-mill and let it sit and then do the final milling. Definately some serious patience is required!!
   Thanks again for the continued input
   Kendal