Been asked about wood counters by a friend. They’re doing a reno, and are looking to save a little money while also getting a nice looking result. (I think the two are often contradictory.)
While it’s been done… I think as non-woodworkers they’re heading fro trouble.
What do you all think?
Replies
Buster,
Been thinking of making end grain countertops. Would be a lot of milling but the end result can be quite stunning. They did an island on TOH and it was awesome.
I don't think it would work well around the sink area though. I'm toying with stainless steel around the sink area and endgrain for the rest.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Buster,
I have a stack of 8/4 maple that I plan to make into a kitchen counter - including sink area. There are a number of companies doing this and there is no reason for not to work as long as it is properly prepared and diligently maintained.
I can't see it being less costly than the garden variety formica over particle board though.
Don
It's one of those reno's that started when our company stock price was 50% above todays value...
It seems to me that this project is entirely a surface/joint preparation issue.
This is one of those w i d e open discussions.
What exactly is their concern?
Expert since 10 am.
The reno is actually on a cottage property. So while the counters wont see as much use as in a daily home, they will see pretty good temperature and humidity fluctuations as the HVAC is adjusted for home and away.
They hadn't considered wood movement at all... and their initial plan had the counter securely bolted down. They plan to use flat sawn Walnut... which at 24" wide can move around 1/2" in the estimimated fluctuations (according to the shrinkulator).
The topic is wide, open... I see many pitfalls in their plan, and I'd like to see what others have to say. Wood counters are not unheard of, uncommon in these parts... but I suspect they have to have proper planning.
I recommend walnut veneered plywood, with solid walnut edging. Problem solved.Expert since 10 am.
I did too... But apparently plywood is a bad word...
I have read on other forums on this subject that the seal between the sink and a wooden countertop ALWAYS breaks down and leaks.
Allegedly, it does this sneakily, wetting the bottom surface first and through-wetting the wood until it's wet UNDER the finish on the top. This is said to discolor the wood surrounding the leak to a most unfortunately permanent degree.
Certainly I've seen this effect on wooden kitchen countertops and bars when I was much younger. Usually in cabins and cottages, and said to be part of the charming rustic look.
Mike D
Get these guys to make what you want and ship it. I was going to go with them for my workbench top, till I found another alternative.
http://www.perfectplank.com/maple_wide_lam_butcher_block_tops.html
I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
George Burns
>>"They're doing a reno, and are looking to save a little money....."
Then they should probably be thinking in terms of a laminate countertop.
Doing anything with wood will be much more expensive -- likely approaching the cost of a solid surface material.
Or, they could do something with wood, which will disappoint them over a rather short period of time.
Thoughts:
The choice of wood species is critical. It needs to be tight-grained enough to not absorb a lot of any liquid (think hard maple, teak, etc), and hard enough to take an extreme beating.
It will last a lot longer if it's an endgrain block, not a facegrain board. If its facegrain, knives will wreak havoc, regardless of species.
And there is no finish that I can think of that will stand up to the way that my wife and I use a countertop. The one exception is mineral oil (on the endgrain block). But mineral oil needs to be re-done quite often.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
I suggested I high quality laminate... but was shot down. They've hinted a few times that they'd like my help... but I don't want to touch this type of project. Too much to go wrong. They're a little to intent that this is the one place they're going to save money on the project...FWIW I think it's a mistake for people to approach doing this kind of work as as a way to save money.
Buster,
I guess all you can do is point them to the web to look at commercial wooden counters. They are all laminated not one flat piece. Even the ones sold by IKEA are laminated oak or beech. Maybe they could buy one of those and stain it.You are right to walk away from it.Don
I've seen wooden countertops that were absolutely gorgeous, and they looked like they had been installed yesterday.And they were in houses in which cooking was done at the restaurant.Oh -- and for all intents and purposes, they HAD been installed yesterday.(Glad to know you understand and agree. In my handyman business, I would walk away from this job.)
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
The last few wood tops with sinks in them were undermount sinks .
get creative and design a solid surface material in the sink area .
regards dusty
Buster:I little over a year ago I made two counter-tops for our kitchen using recycled T&G white oak flooring. I used solid white oak for the bullnose. Lots of people here and elsewhere assured me that it would not work. However, with one small glitch, it has worked very nicely.The oak was edge glued and clamped very thoroughly, then mounted using stainless pan-head screws to a substrate of OSB. The OSB had elongated holes to permit movement, and the screws went up through the holes into the oak. The cutouts for the sink and the cook top had to have enough allowance under the lip for movement as well. This was especially tricky with the sink as it has built in clamps all round that must be not be over-tightened. Fortunately, the weight of the disposal holds it down anyway. The finishing schedule was several coats of shellac, cut back each time, and then two coats (or was it three?) of Behlens Rock Hard. It was then rubbed out with Abralon pads and waxed with a dark Bison waxThese counters get hard daily use from a large family that cooks most meals at home and does lots of other projects on the stove and sink. They have held up very well indeed to this traffic.HOWEVER, early on, we did not know of the heat sensitivity of the finish. My wife set a crock pot on top of a triple-folded towel for the day. At the end of the day, the varnish had bubbled up from the shellac. This isn't too hard to repair -- something I am about to undertake with the advice of friend Peter Gedrys. However, it is a pain and cause much anguish at the time. We have also noted that hot bacon spatters and the like can cause small pits, so we protect against it.Otherwise, we are very satisfied. There are almost no cracks in the finish -- and none that would cause concern or look bad.NOTE we have a top-mount sink. I sealed the wood very well in the cutout. However, we also took the wax from a (new) toilet ring and lined the lip with it to get an even better seal. It worked.Joe
Edited 11/3/2009 9:16 am ET by Joe Sullivan
I made Walnut [naturally rot resistant] counter tops for both my downstairs bathroom vanities. Top Coated with exterior poly. They have been there for 3 years and still look great.
I would only recommend wood for counters around a sink if the users plan on keeping it pretty dry.
Regards,
Roger (a.k.a. Mr SQL)
Ya,
Sometimes it's better to walk away from a friend's job faster than one with a stranger, 'cause friends tend to think that the job is yours to fix whatever goes wrong forever, or until time ends, whichever comes first.
The problem with the wood counter top with a sink in it, isn't so much that it gets wet on top, as it's that it gets wet at the margin between the sink and the top. That end grain - which you can seal, but won't STAY sealed - soaks up the moisture, stains like heck, wicks the water and stain up under the finish on the top and glowers at ya. (Have I said this already? If so, just delete.)
These are NOT laminated, and they are NOT cheap. But they ARE good.
http://www.johnboos.com/residential/products.cfm?category=jbc0001
By the way--while in Chicago last weekend, I toured the Charnley-Perskey House, built over a hundred years ago by FLW and Louis Sullivan.
The butler's sink had a white oak plainsawn countertop. It still looked to be in very good condition. However, it was quite 'plasticky' looking due to the built up finish.
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