Replies

1. 
   CAGIV | Mar 31, 2003 07:31am | #1

   This isn't really my area of expertise so take this for what its worth.

   I would avoid poplar and "standard constructin lumber "  if by that you mean any type of pine or fir.  They will each rot quickly and are not very stable when put in contact with the weather.

   Have you considered redwood? Just a thought

   Also, I personally wouldn't rely on titebond, something like gorilla glue or similar polyurethane glue works well in outdoor applications.

   View ImageGo Jayhawks
2. 
   rrwood | Mar 31, 2003 03:06pm | #2

   Why not glue the cypress and cedar to create 6/4 and plane in down to 1 1/4?  If you are going to paint, another option would be treated pine.

   rrwood

3. 
   jonsherryl | Mar 31, 2003 04:11pm | #3

   Mel, sorry to be coming to this thread so late, but I was over on the "Precision Bomb" thread attending Jeff K's lecture on botanical nomenclature, circa 1850.

   If your primary objectives on this project are low cost and high decay resistance, treated pine is probably your best option. You may want to shop a little more carefully to ensure that you get treated ponderosa, as opposed to treated Southern Yellow  Pine. The western variety of treated pine is a little softer and easier to mill than SYP. Check the grade stamp for back-to-back "P"s or the letters PPLP...which designates a combination of ponderosa and lodgepole pines.

   The only problem with the treated pines (with the exception of their toxicity) is that they come to market fully saturated...and when milling things that demand close tolerances, it helps to sticker stack the boards until they acclimate...and this can take several months.

   Another option you might want to consider is dark red meranti. This is a Southeast Asian member of the lauan family that is now being marketed as a slightly up scale decking. Provided you make certain it's the dark red variety, it has reasonably good decay resistance and it machines quite well. I haven't bought any lately, but as I recall, it's priced to be competitive with clear western redcedar. Another good choice would be Spanish cedar (Cedrela.) It has good decay resistance, is soft and easy to machine, usually costs a little less than genuine mahogany and is quite stable. The down side is, it's high gum content tends to bleed through paint.

   With regard to availability, cost and durability, ipe would be a good choice, but it's so dense and laborous to mill, it would take you forever to finish a project like you've described. If you want to stay with a domestic species, white oak would be a durable choice, but it too is pretty dense and difficult to work...and its ring-porous figure tends to telegraph through paint. There are a lot of other species that would have the right functional properties for this application, but they would be difficult to source in either 5/4 or 6/4...As for baldcypress, even if you could find it in the right dimensions these days, I'd be leary that it might be immature, second growth stock, which has very poor decay resistance. The same is also becoming true with respect to the limited amount of redwood now on the market.

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Apr 01, 2003 10:30pm | #8

   John,

   If you're as tired of all that endless/aimless name calling as I am, I could add a few more posts.  Guess it is a bit outdated, but makes for more interesting reading than a lot of the other stuff.

   If you'd like a real treat, I have a bunch of material gathered on Elm!

   Jeff

1. 
   wop | Apr 01, 2003 11:10pm | #10

       Elm ? Go for it! If you got the time to write it I'll read it. Most magazines that I've seen never publish any thing about the material. Only 50000 articles on the ultimate router table. (actually Woodwork did a good article on Cedars)

                                                                           Philip

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Apr 01, 2003 11:19pm | #11

   Will do.

   When I ran a sawmill and many years before that, we couldn't give elm away.  Then, after Dutch Elm Disease had done its job, the market was suddenly screaming for the stuff.  Seems it can easily be disguised as chestnut and other "less abundant" (read: more expensive) species.  The casket manufacturers were the biggest buyers.

   Jeff

   Look for it in the precision bomb discussion.

   Edited 4/1/2003 4:21:23 PM ET by Jeff K

2. 
   jonsherryl | Apr 02, 2003 04:49am | #12

   Jeff, I just read your ELM post over at the Bomb site. It contains some interesting and quaintly historical trivia...but again, Ulmaceae is a botanical Family and not an Order.

   Personally, I enjoy some of these off-topic threads that show up in the Woodworkers Cafe. I'm an ex market researcher and these threads bring back fond memories of what it was like to conduct Focus Groups...Also, I love to step in and out of the conversation with (hopefully good natured) sarcasm...I guess I have what you might call a sadistic streak...Tweaking the Liberals is great sport...Ranks right up there with a free brewery pass.

   PS....Oops! Sorry Philip, I clicked on the wrong post when I made this response...But anyway, I'm glad you liked the Cedars article in Woodwork magazine. It was more of a "botanical review" than I'm usually able to get published in the woodworking magazines...I'm hoping to do a few more like it on some of the other major groups of timbers.

   Edited 4/1/2003 10:05:44 PM ET by Jon Arno

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Apr 02, 2003 02:53pm | #14

   Hey Jon, let's give credit - er, blame I guess - where it's due.  Can't comment on the family/order thing since this is out of my league and the original author is long dead.

   I too would normally like to stir things up a bit over there, but those guys are already so stirred up that they probably haven't slept in a month.  Too bad one can't email valium.

   Jeff

4. 
   johnhardy | Mar 31, 2003 06:27pm | #4

   Why *not* use the 8/4 cypress? Rip it to get the 6/4 stock, and use the cutoffs for glueups to make additional 6/4 stock for milling. You really wouldn't have that much waste.

   And Titebond isn't the glue I'd use, since this is really outdoors stuff. Epoxy?

   John

1. 
   mrbird90 | Apr 01, 2003 12:03am | #5

   John, Unfortunately there are a lot of screens to make, 16 which will be 4' x 9' and the frames are to be 3" wide. That would be a lot of glue up work. Incidently, with regards to Titebond II I made a bunch of 3" x 3"  x 8' posts by gluing up 4/4 cypress using the Tightbond II glue. The posts were used for fence posts and now 6 years later there is no separarion  what so ever and this is in Ohio weather, rain , snow, freezing rain etc.

1. 
   johnhardy | Apr 01, 2003 12:17am | #6

   Understand the extra time, but if the wood you choose doesn't hold up ... the rework will make the glue-up time look like a coffee break.

   If you build a glue-up jig the extra time will be manageable. You could use the off-cuts for glue-up and when you get around to needing them for milling purposes they'll be ready. You'll have plenty to do in the meantime.

   Or, use another wood. I'd just make sure that whatever you use it will hold up to the weather.

   John

5. 
   Raehm | Apr 01, 2003 06:54pm | #7

   Spanish cedar is easy to work, relatively inexpensive, and has good decay resistance. Just be careful to avoid stock with pitch deposits. Smells good too.

1. 
   wop | Apr 01, 2003 11:04pm | #9

      Try working in a closed shop, in winter with recycled air and work it for a week. It goes from being Nice smelling to stifiling in a hurry.

                                                                                  Philip

6. 
   DavidxDoud | Apr 02, 2003 05:17am | #13

   Walnut would be a good choice if you are able to access it at reasonable prices (meaning you need to deal with a sawyer/mill) -- if you have the ability to resaw,  pallet factories often work with 'cants',  beams often 4"X6" or so,  and I have scored nice material out of their stock - put your ear to the ground and check around - good luck - -