I am making a round table, (22 in dia) with quilted Maple Top and four Cherry laegs and stretchers.
Two of my leg blanks, unfortunately, have lots of sapwood. Do I need to dye it to match the other legs? Will the legs darken evenly with age? Should I just give up and stain the legs/stretchers, (I don’t like that thought much.)
If dying is the answer what dye should I use? How should it be applied. Thanks.
Replies
north,
No, the sapwood won't darken appreciably. It may yellow, depending on the finish you use, but the contrast with heartwood will increase with age.
Dye will help to even the color. I've been using the water based dyes that Constantine's sells. Others here will have other suggestions as well.
Good luck with your project.
Ray
Ray,
What is the effect of the dye over the long run? One would think that the heartwood would start lighter than end up darker, so there would always be some sort of mismatch.
I suppose that the overall effect would be to even things out, not to match. Correct?
Buster
Buster,
If exposed to strong sunlight, dyes tend to fade. Under normal household conditions, whatever they are, they stay pretty much on target.
A coat of dye alone will make the sapwood less contrasty, but you will sometimes (depending on the color of the dye) still see a difference. To get a better match, you might want to play with a "sapstain", a first coat of thinned dye, approximating the natural color of the heartwood, applied just to the sappy areas, followed up with a coat of dye to the whole project, of the color you want. Play with scraps first, of course, before committing to the project.
Ray
Ray
If the section of your legs is big enough, you can rip them into four identical squares and glue them back up with the sapwood inside, if you pay attention, the glue line will be practically invisible.
I never use stain or dyes, that's what I would do.
C.
I would get rid of the sapwood.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/13/2007 8:47 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Four new legs - without any sapwood - would be the path of least frustration.
I definitely agree with the suggestion to not use legs that have sapwood. Other than that I will echo what Ray said.
No matter what you do, the legs with sapwood will never remain a uniform color over the long haul. But... dye certainly would help minimize that problem if you choose to use the legs anyway.
Thanks to everyone for their responses. I guess I knew deep down that I really needed to cut new leg and stretcher blanks without sapwood. So, that's what I'll do.
This wood was given to me by my father. He's got a big pile of it stickered in his shed. He got it from an old farmer in PA. It's old, rough cut and hard to tell the good from the bad. But I wanted to use it for sentemental reasons. I'll go through what I have and glean out the good stuff. I guess the rest will make good secondary wood and jigs.
Now, all I have to do is explain to my wife that her new table isn't quite done yet...
north,
I know how you feel. I've got some really nice cherry from my folks estate and it has a sentimental value to me, as does yours. It will only be used to make furniture, when I'm ready to do it justice.
I think you're making the right decision. The sapwood cutoffs could also be incorporated into smaller pieces such as jewelry boxes.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/14/2007 8:14 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
It's not everybody's cup of tea but... I personally think that there is a definite time and place for using hardwood with a sharply contrasting sapwood color. It has to be designed around the wood rather than the other way around. But it can be very striking and I personally love the contrast when it's used creatively. Which is to say that you could still use this wood that obviously means a lot to you. Just give it some thought and I'm sure you'll find a way of using it that you and everyone who sees it will find rewarding.
Kevin,
I agree with you about the possibility that the sapwood/heartwood contrast can be suitable in some designs. In particular, I think that table legs are probably a good place for it, as opposed to glued-up panels, where you really have to be careful with how it is used. What you said about designing based on the wood, rather than trying to get the wood to fit into a preexisting design, really rings true. I've got some cherry boards with sapwood/heartwood contrast that I keep looking at each time I'm in the shop (working on something else), and I'll keep looking at them until a suitable form for them occurs to me.
On the other hand, I understand that there are some woodworkers who would just avoid the stuff altogether. To each his own!
-Andy
I've got some cherry boards with sapwood/heartwood contrast that I keep looking at each time I'm in the shop (working on something else), and I'll keep looking at them until a suitable form for them occurs to me.
I sure can identify with that sentiment! I'm probably more impulsive than most because I often buy small boards of exotic wood without really having a concrete usage in mind. If the inherent beauty of the wood moves me then I will buy it and figure out a use for it later. Sometimes I never find a use for it. But in those cases I almost always find someone else who sees it and immediate knows what they would do with it and we work out a deal... or I just give it to them. LOL needless to say I'm not in this for the money. I know that it's a highly subjective thing, but truly beautiful wood moves me like very few thing ever have or likely ever will.
Folks, there is another mighty good reason for generally shunning sap wood (and this makes it really ugly): sap wood contains nutrients such as lecithin, which is the main diet of BORERS. That is why those tunnels are found in the sapwood mostly-every now and again one might lose its way and stray into the heartwood, but the always go back into the sapwood.
If you store timber with sapwood, waney edge , bark in your shop this is an invitation to all borers-more so if the wood is still green/wet.
I have seen too many items such as dining tables where the maker "hid " the sap wood on the under side of the top, and later these areas have been mined by borers such as pin hole borers. I am sure there are relatives of pin hole borers and worse in the States.Philip Marcou
Philip,
Yikes! That sounds nasty. I wonder what kinds of borers we've got here in the Great Snowy North. I'm going to have a conversation with a biologist friend, but for now, your post just gave me the heeby-jeebies.
-Andy
I recently completed some cherry kitchen cabinets where I used cherry plywood panels and some less than great cherry lumber, some of whcih has a fair amount of sap wood. Since this wasn't built as a heirloom and cost was a concern, I didn't go for the good stuff. In order to even out the color between the heartwood, sapwood and plywood, I dyed it all with water based aniline dye (JE Moser Dark Wine Cherry, I think). It turned out very well. They have been in place for over a year now with some areas getting sun exposure with no noticible fading (maybe it takes a lot longer).
Folks,
I don't know how this forum works but I am going to jump in..... I have a good customer who wants to build his kitchen using bookmatched solid cherry doors and drawer fronts fully inset in traditional face frame cabinets. I am planing to use frames that allow the doors and drawers to inset 1/8" to give some wiggle room. I am afraid of the movement on the large solid doors (15"W by 36" H). I don't want to bail on an awesome project, but if the doors warp or twist it will be hard to hide. Any thoughts? Thanks Brad
Brad,
The discussions (threads) are driven by the topic from the original poster, i.e. the first post to the discussion.
This is kind of an undocumented attribute to Knots, but it is what it is. It's an attempt to keep the discussion focused on the needs of the original poster.
The best way for you to get pointed inputs as to your need is to post it with a title appropriate to the information you seek. That said, please don't take this the wrong way, but you will get far more inputs to your inquiry by posting it as a separate discussion as it is not about the original topic in this post.
ALSO, your request will get much more air time!
This place is full of very knowledgeable folks who go out of there way to help anyone. God know they have helped me immensely.
I'm looking forward to your post as I have some cherry that I want to turn into cabinets as well.
Best Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 6/19/2007 7:58 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob,
Thanks for showing me how this works. I will try to ask my question in the proper place. Brad
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