Replies

1. 
   | Apr 16, 2009 02:38am | #1

   Hi Tom,

   Minwax dye you say? Never heard of it, however, if it's a water based dye, and you put many coats on, I could see how it could leave residue on your hands. Does it feel wet? If not, just seal it with shellac an motor on.

   Bob, Tupper Lake, NY

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 16, 2009 03:41am | #2

   The Minwax web pages don't show any line of dye products, and I am pretty sure they don't market one.   Minwax stain does often often combine pigment and dye, but in waterborne acyrlic binder.  The binder is what makes it different from a pure dye product.  The waterborne stain starts to dry very quickly.  You have only less than three minutes, according to the directions, to wipe off all excess dye from the surface.  This makes it very difficult to use properly.  If the first coat doesn't get dark enough, a second coat won't do much, only just even out any missed spots.  It will NOT make it substantially darker or more intense, reqardless of what the Minwax instructions say.  Third and fourth coats just make it more difficult for the binder to dry.  So it is almost certain that you have much too much dye left on the surface, which is why it isn't drying properly. 

   At this point your only real option is to remove the stain with stripper if it won't just wash off with water, and start over.  Putting anything over it will just create more problems, and a very weak finish, even it were to appear to dry over the next week.   

   Once you have completely removed the Minwax you could use dye to get to achieve a dark surface. I'd recommend water soluble powdered dye.  For small surfaces like these moldings you could also achieve an intense black with India ink.  Another alternative is to use oil based black paint and thin it so it's film is  thin and stain like in appearance. 

   
   

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   Edited 4/15/2009 8:50 pm ET by SteveSchoene

1. 
   tom93311 | Apr 16, 2009 03:57am | #3

   Hi - I am using Minwax Wood Finish Ebony 2718 and it says it stains, penetrates and seals. I guess it was not a dye - I was thinking of dye because that was the intent of the usage.When I put on the first coat it was very weak in terms of allowing the maple to show through but as each coat was applied the stain got better and better to the point it is as black as can be.What I was left with though was a surface that would smudge just with a thumbprint pressure on the wood. Today I did put a clear coat of shellac and that has helped to seal in the color and prevent further smudging. When I was applying the shellac I was getting some of the stain to transfer onto my cloth applicator. Right now I may need to strip down some of the pieces because when I applied the shellac when I rubbed the corners the stain came off so the corners to the wood surfaces are showing a thin line of maple. I may need to use a brush and go slow on those pieces or apply light pressure with the cloth to avoid stripping the stain from the edges. I think I solved my own problem with the shellac - I just wished the stained wood was easier to handle because I let enough time to dry and I am still having smudging. Thanks for the input. - Tom

   Edited 4/15/2009 8:57 pm ET by Tom93311

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 16, 2009 04:13am | #4

   You only got dark because you used the stain like paint, not according to the directions.  But it isn't paint, and the binder that holds the pigment to the wood is weak.  Consequently, your entire finish will be weak, regardless of any apparent success by putting shellac on top.  It's going to continue to be weak forever, and will likely begin to look dingy quite quickly, every time it gets bumped or scraped.  It just won't hold up. 

2. 
   integrity_woodworks | Apr 16, 2009 04:56am | #5

   Tom , strip it all! the info you have been given is 100% correct. IT WILL NOT LAST. none of the finish or stain will bond properly. I,m sorry to say it but it is true,(you have not sovled anything!!!)

    

   Dan

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 16, 2009 06:26pm | #6

   I'm a little confused. First you said "I used minwax water based ebony dye to ebonize some hard maple." Later you said "I am using Minwax Wood Finish Ebony 2718 and it says it stains, penetrates and seals."These two different products. The first is a waterbased pigment stain while the second is an oil based pigment stain. Which did you use?Both products require some process of wiping off the excess after a period of soaking in. If you did not do that you are headed for long range adhesion and durability problems.You might want to go to the Minwax website (http://www.minwax.com/products/wood_stains/) and click on each product to see which one you used and look at the instructions for application.Howie.........

1. 
   tom93311 | Apr 16, 2009 07:56pm | #7

   Thanks for the suggestions.  I will be stripping it and I will be using a metal analized dye - I got the idea from David Marks who made a bookcase stand out of maple and dyed it to an ebony color with a metal dye - if you google David Marks and metalized acid dye you will see a link to his site mentioning the dye he uses - I am thinking of trying this dye.   Others have mentioned india ink but what about this dye David uses - it sure looked good on his bookcase stand on his DIY show. 

1. 
   tom93311 | Apr 16, 2009 07:59pm | #8

   I am sorry I mean metalized acid dye.  And yes, I got the products mized up and my second post listed the correct product I was using.  Yes, I used it like paint.  Worked well until I wiped on the shellac and noticed the maple showing through at the edges.  I need to start over and stip all that junk off.  painting it may be a good idea as well since the pieces are so narrow - 3/8 of an inch on sides, one inch in the front for my molding piees.