A fairly wealthy client was in my shop the other day and saw the back cover of my FW magazine with the picture of the chair for $3400.00 and he said who in the he++ would put that much money into a chair that does not have any historic signifance such as a chair that came over on the Mayflower etc. I guess this got me thinking and in the 40 years of woodworking I don’t think I came across a client that would fork over that much money unless it were for a highboy or big intertainment center. Just curious. Certainly doesn’t look as difficult to build as some early American Chippendale ladder back chairs and doesn’t have any eye appeal , thats just my impression.
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Replies
Hey people spend tens of thousands of dollars on funny rocks to wear on their fingers. Me I would rather have a nice chair to sit on or something with moving parts that went whuuurrr or buzzz or vroooommm for that much money but that is just me.
Plenty of people out there with waaaayyyy too much money. I can think of a few in particular. The ones that got us in this world crises. Just a matter of making them want the object in question.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
I have taken classes under Michael Fortune. That chair, his "#1 chair" sells for $10,500 if purchased in Madagascar ebony with silver inlay.Do not forget - these are dining room chairs so they are purchased in sets of six or eight.Michael is pleasure to work with. He freely shares his knowledge and has a wonderful sense of humor.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
We shouldn't be too critical of the frivolous (?) spending habits of Rock People. I still have my Pet Rock in its original carry case, along with the care manual. ;-)
>still have Pet Rock<Do you breed it ? Do you suppose you can get like a few thou for the pups ? Pebbles ?I have included a pic of my pet rock "Spot". He can't fetch for nothin' but he is good with doors. Holding them open etc. Doesn't eat much. I don't think I could get much for him though so I guess I am stuck with him.Here he is catching some rays on the deck. Getting cloudy so I imagine he will be coming in soon.His spot used to be white . . . is getting kind of gray now . . . aren't we all.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Oh no! You were taken! That's petrified loaf of bread! I won't deny its beauty, though.
--jonnieboy
>spotThe guy I got him from said he was a thorough bread. I didn't ask what kind. He sure is loyal though always there, never runs off. I didn't realize what he meant by "bread" until now. Thanks for clarifying that. Quite an eye you have for "live" stock.Hello Mr Maloof ! If you are reading this I mean no disrespect. I reread your book from time to time and marvel at your work and your, most impressive, chair joint.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 5/11/2009 3:41 am by roc
roc,
about that "rock"...
it looks as though it has seen specific use. i have stumbled upon similar looking ones whilst enjoying a favorite past time of wandering aimlessly and for hours in the various deserts around california and arizona. i think you've a tool there. the thick end of these stones often have staining from skin oil and the thin end, upon magnified inspection, will show varying amounts of wear due to hammering.
eef
I would tell your client (In a very nice way) for $3400.00 I'll try to teach you FineWoodworking. When you finish my classes you will appreciate the price it was sold at!
Will,
I would tell your client (In a very nice way) for $3400.00 I'll try to teach you FineWoodworking. When you finish my classes you will appreciate the price it was sold at!
That was perfect!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I do have some good moments with my English and my OLD brain!
EDIT: I hope you and the little lady had a great dinner! OK, So I loose track of time,,
Now or Near that time for her dinner? Give your wife a big HUG from me.. I just took a bath and brushed my teeth!
But I still look the same, Just fresher!
Edited 5/9/2009 9:03 am by WillGeorge
Will,
That's too funny, rolled on the floor laughing me erse off.
Looked out the winder and there's a rainbow out there. Did ye play yer lottery ticket yet?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Will," When you finish my classes you will appreciate the price it was sold at!"That's the problem with being a beginner/intermediate woodbutcher (that's me). You end up with so much appreciation for fine furniture that you find yourself ogling over a $10K Stickley Dining room set that you can't afford and can't imagine how you could build.
Hell, My wife liked Spanish stuff we bought.. She was happy.. All that counted!
There is still clients out there that are willing to pay for what they want. The last two chairs I built was over the $3400.00 price tag your talking about. One of them was $4800.00. And they seemed tickled to get it for that price.
So I guess its just depends on client.
Regards
Edited 5/9/2009 9:36 pm ET by w00dwkr
Hi mr,
What we feel is too much to pay or what your client felt was out of the question is not what is important .
The people having these pieces made have budget for extraordinary wants .
Sam Maloof gets about $ 52,000 per rocking chair , and at times the wait list is perhaps a few years or so .
The high end of the market still has some activity at least out in the North West area . The middle market is none existent and the low end is a nightmare .
regards dusty , lets my clients decide if it's too much
People who have that kind of "discretionary spending money" can buy whatever they want, whenever they want, for whatever reason they have. Price is not a limiting factor. If they like the artist, appreciate his design and workmanship, and believe in the quality of the piece, they simply write a check. I only know one or two people who live in this rarified atmosphere, and am pleased that they are smart, appreciative of fine workmanship, and enjoyable to spend time with! Not all wealthy folk are.......
If they like the artist, appreciate his design and workmanship, and believe in the quality of the piece, they simply write a check.
That's a big part of the question raised here-- how much is something worth. Some builders see themselves as artists and others see themselves as craftsman working on objects for people to use. If you asked Frank Klauz if he was an artist, I think I know what he would say.(well pretty close)
On the other hand most turners that I work with view just about all of their work as art.
If I was being paid more to be called an "artist" I wouldn't argue with the customer. The kids need new shoes around here. Well its time to put the lights on in the workshop ... studio.
d
d, good post
They can call it whatever they want to , just as long as we get paid our price.
regards d
The kids need new shoes around here..
Been there and did that often. Lets see, kids wear out shoes in about a month,, If the shoes cost, say 5 dollars a pair, that adds up quickly. Especially if you have four children!
Unless you have sat in a custom made chair, the only experience you can compare it to is a store bought, dowelled chair (joinery) that sits in the kitchen, has loose joints, rocks and squeaks in the winter, and isn't a chair you can sit in for a few hours. That chair has minimal or no lumbar support, and may be a little tall, or a little short. That chair may not be wide enough at the crest rail to support your shoulders, and isn't shaped to your body, so you feel it pressing on your body in odd places that it shouldn't, like the bottom of the shoulder blades, for instance.
A custom made chair (set of chairs) are typically built from a prototype which the customer approves. That prototype is usually designed, made and tweaked by the professional chairmaker until the chair 'fits' the client just right. That amount of forethought takes time, and money. Sometimes, it will take a month of "back and forth" tweaking of the seat angle and height, or the lumbar curvature, or the height of the crest rail, and width of the back legs, before the client is happy with it. At this point, and only at this point, are the final chairs made out of the wood of choice.
I have never sold a chair for $3400.00. I don't think I'll ever build one or two for a customer. They can't pay enough to cover the amount of work it takes, just to make one or two. Chairs are typically sold in sets of 6 or 8, and sometimes 10. I've sold many chairs for between $1400.00 and $2000.00. I can't ever remember thinking when I was done that I got paid too much. It's alot of work.
Some people are perfectly content buying a $4500.00 used chevy with 85,000 miles and a torn seat, with a little rust around the wheel wells. Some people drive Porsches, Mercedes Benz's, etc.....because they know what they want, and they are willing and able to pay for it.
Quality comes with a price.
Jeff
Last I heard Sam Maloof gets $20,000 a rocker and he's got a waiting list that'll probably be longer than the rest of his life (I think he's over 90). Krenov's work is pretty priceless now that he's stopped producing furniture, but I bet you could talk him into making a handplane for you for a few grand.
If you've ever been to Pritem and Eames (the preeminent furniture gallery in this country) and wanted to buy something and you were an average working stiff like myself you'd have to take out a couple of mortgages on your house to be able to walk away with a small box or something.
Edited 5/10/2009 1:39 pm ET by ted
Edited 5/10/2009 1:42 pm ET by ted
I was able to sit in a Sam Maloof chair at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. It was the most comfortable chair I have ever experienced and
it was fabulously beautiful.If I had $50,000 or so to spend, I would buy a set. But unfortunately, Sam Maloof is 94 and even if I had the money, his waiting list is several years long and it is unlikely that I could buy one.His rockers are over $50,000 each and also have long waiting periods.All that being said, Sam Maloof didn't make any real money until late in his career. Domer
You can always surprise yourself and make one!
Just spend the 50Gs on classes and equipment!
At that point you can try to recoup your investment and might achieve that before your old age when you'll really need a Sam Maloof chair to get comfy and to settle your overworked bones!
Sounds good doesn't it? LOL
Seriously why dont you give making a chair a try? do out of a cheeper hard wood and see what you make of it!
Chaim
Chaim,I have made a few chairs that have turned out good. I made a Morris
chair last year out of quarter sawn white oak that we have in our
family room. I have gotten lots of compliments on it.I haven't spent $50,000 on equipment but have spend a lot in the past few years. So I think I am in pretty good shape there.Jeff Miller wrote a book on making chairs that takes you from pretty simple chairs up to a Maloof style arm chair. I think I am about ready to try one.I made a prototype Arts and Crafts chair a year or so ago to try out some techniques so I made it from scraps. It turned out better than
I had hoped so I wish I had made it from good wood. So I plan on
using some good wood even on the prototype. At this stage wood is
less expensive than my time. So long story short, thanks for the suggestion. I have a couple of projects to finish and then I will take the plunge.Domer
That's great!
The truth is I've been dying to make myself a Morris chair not only for the satisfaction but for the comfort.
Alas I also have to much on my plate and space in the living/dinning room is an issue.
Let us know how it turns out.
Chaim
The Morris chair turned out great. I combined the plans from several
books to come up with the design. I decided not to do through tenons and used loose tenons. It took
some extra care to line up all of the mortise and tenons for the
sides. And I had to buy a special drill bit to have the back move
easily but not too loose and getting it located exactly was difficult
I eventually had to sand down the bar between the arms a little to
make it fit right.The two things I would do differently areI am fairly short and should have made the distance from the back to the front an inch or two shorter. We put an extra pillow on the chair and it works fine. I laminated two boards to make the legs and faced them with a 1/4"
piece so that the quartersawn face would be visible on all four
sides. And that is how the original Gustav Stickly chairs were
made. Later on the L.& J.G Stickly Company came up with a better
way called quadralinear legs where they join four pie shaped pieces.
The advantage is that quarter sawn wood will expand across the
grain more than flat sawn wood and the 1/4" facing will most likely
eventually split where the quadralinear legs will not. It was a medium difficulty project but very rewarding. I get lots
of compliments on it and it is a comfortable chair. Domer
The more You talk about the morris chair the more I really want one although in my neck of the woods WQA (white quatersawn oak) is hard to come by! I could make it out of pine or beech and still feel good about it.
talking about oak I just used some to make table runners and had to resaw them to allow a rabbit to be cut and than reglued. After that another rabbit is cut on the outer piece thus forming a T slot for the washers and supporting wood stick.
I mention all this because I on the one hand found oak to be a pleasure to work with (just watch out for splinters and sharp corners) and on the other I found it near impossible to keep a 7' piece straight after the resaw! In fact I find that when I resaw most woods there is usually some bow.
Did you find this to be the case with your oak?
Chaim
I did not but all of the pieces are fairly short so it is less of an issue. In addition, the Morris chair is square and there aren't any panels so again it is less of an issue. It is a fun chair to make. I can look up the books where I got the
design and post them.Domer
His business is established well enough that the people that work with him could probably carry on the business after he is gone. When I visited his studio workshop I think he had 3 or 4 guys making the rokcers with him.
I have read that as well. I have seen where Sam has said that the shop would continue on after him. But, it is my understanding that Sam cuts out and assembles all of the furniture so will the guys be able to produce the same quality stuff and even if they can (and I assume they can) , will the public still want it at near the same prices. Domer
Domer ,
I do not believe that Sam cut's out and assembles all the furniture produced in his shops himself ,he has employees working , what do they do ?
regards dusty
> I do not believe that Sam cut's out and assembles all the furniture produced in his shops himself ,he has employees working , what do they do ? Things may have changed recently but if you read interviews and his book (s) and his videos he does ALL the critical ( bandsawing , shaping , sculpting ) work and they just glue up, sand, finish and crate.He even does all the hand filing/fine shaping etc. Allot of work he does , he does.He even goes so far as to say he produced more by himself in the early days than he does now with helpers. Have you seen those hands and forearms of his ? He looks like Popeye !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 5/15/2009 4:14 am by roc
Edited 5/15/2009 4:15 am by roc
2 things of interest in the FWW article on Mr. Fortune's chairs:
He indicated he lost money on the first set of chairs because of the setup and design time and that he expected to make a profit on further sets sold.
He was willing to spend his own time, money, and designs to go to an economically challenged country and help improve the economy hence the 34.00 chair.
Perhaps the second thing justifys part of the price of the expensive chairs.
It's a Canadian thing - like another Canadian Steve Nash 2 time MVP in the NBA building hospitals in poor countries in the off season.
Edited 5/15/2009 2:43 pm ET by EdgeGrain
roc ,
Well , that's amazing if it is so .
His statement " he produced more by himself " is also interesting .
Who's gonna have the skills to carry on if all they really do is pack and ship , I just find it a wee bit hard to believe that Mr, Maloof's scale and volume could be attributed to only one seasoned expert maker .
BTW I so admire and respect Mr. Maloof , he has been an ispirational drive to me and many other makers I know for decades .
regards dusty , just a boxmaker
>admire and respect Mr. Maloof , he has been an inspirationOk here is an old quote from his book "Sam Maloof Woodworker" :Unfortunately for the apprentice, in my shop I am the designer. I do all the layout, all the cutout, all the joining, and all the rough shaping. If it is a new piece, I shape the piece and sand it as I want it to be when completed. No one puts anything together in my shop but me. It seems selfish, I guess, but if I had other people putting pieces together, they would not be my pieces. Many designers make drawings, and artisans build the pieces. I do not do this.Sam says he is not secret about what he is doing and takes allot of time to teach the apprentice. So I suppose the apprentice can do this work but then it is his work and not Sam's.Mr. Maloof has a son who has a shop near by or did until the county moved, evicted, Sam from his home stead. His son is called Slimen. He also taught a nephew by the name of Nasiff.( I come off like the great Sam historian but this is all on two pages of his book so far so not a big deal and I have read the book several times. It is a great read ! Also lots, and lots and lots of great pictures. )Here is another quote:When I first started making furniture, I worked alone; yet I was able to produce as many pieces then as I do now with two helpers, perhaps even more. The designs were simpler then, and the joinery less complex.He was writing this in about 1980An interesting and significant note about the photos. They were done by Jonathan Pollock over many years. He has the same blood as the great and revolutionary painter Jackson Pollock. I can recommend the movie about the painter called "Pollock ". Ed Harris played him and also directed the movie.The documentary that shows actual footage of Jackson painting is enlightening also. Gives one an eye opening on how fast and accurate he could paint with a bucket and drippy brush with the canvas on the floor.I heard a fine description of the crotchety Pollock. He once walked into his studio and over heard an argument going on between a critic and an admirer. The critic was saying " It is all random chance. He just dribbles the paint on where ever and people buy it up. What is so great about that ? ! ? "Jackson stomped over to a bucket of pink paint, dabbed a big brush in it and quick as a wink flung a gob of paint clear across the room and the gob splat on the door knob at the entrance.There is your F*!#$%G random chance ! Now get out of my studio ! I have work to do !Ya gotta love that !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 5/16/2009 2:15 am by roc
Edited 5/16/2009 2:25 am by roc
roc,
Interesting how he says he takes a lot of time to teach the apprentice , although only himself actually does the important work so to speak .
Just my take but , For much of time the skilled teach and train the apprentice to do the same level of work the journeyman or Master Craftsman does .
To not allow the apprentice to actually do the work seems to fly in the face of this whole theory of replacing yourself , it almost seems selfish imo .
I suppose a skilled maker may not be willing to share and teach others but more of us have and do believe in spreading the craft .
regards dusty
>To not allow the apprentice to actually do the work seems to fly in the face of this whole theory of replacing yourself , it almost seems selfish.I think where Mr. Maloof may be coming from is he believes in sharing what he has learned FREELY. He says this in his interviews.He expects the student to take what he has learned and find his own style.However part of what people are paying for is a Sam Maloof rocker or other object.I don't know exactly how much he gets, I have heard here $20,000 and over $50,000 for a rocker, but when one is selling a piece of ART for that kind of money it must be clear who made it.Can you imagine paying that much for a painting that is a copy of the original cranked out by one of the painter's students ?Ain't gonna happen !Some of the edge detail on the rockers is quite subtle and organic. If someone else cut it it may not be as nice. And if two collectors are comparing there may be a problem.At least that is what my little pea brain is coming up with from what little I understand of seeing him explain his work in videos. What do I know ?Ahh to see the real thing in person . . . now that is a treat I hope to one day enjoy !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
roc,
I understand your thinking about paying the $52,000 for a Sam Maloof rocker and have it cranked out by you said students , but it really sounds like they are more like employees since they only do what they are told , no individual breaking out of the box yet at this stage .
As an example the Stickley line commands a top price in comparison to much factory made furniture , obviously Gustav has left the building but alas , the price is not discounted .
Once the pieces are made to the exact specs and the joinery is right all the elements come together , who could tell who actually built and assembled it ?
dusty
Dusty,"Once the pieces are made to the exact specs and the joinery is right all the elements come together , who could tell who actually built and assembled it ?"What you say is absolutely true! But there is something else. Suppose your great grandfather made the piece, exactly to someone else's specs. Wouldn't that be a "special piece"? When buying furniture from IKEA, I don't care who made it (if anyone actually did). But pieces of furniture or pieces of other art have a special quality to certain people if it is made by someone special to them. I think there is a third aspect to all of this. I don't collect, but if I did, then the maker would be very important to me. Watch the Antiques Roadshow.Waddyathink?
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I do agree with you and dk , the name and maker or the " who " not " what "
is the important factor .
d
I saw a video of Sam Maloof recently talking about people copying his work. Although he said it was OK, he clearly did not like it. He thinks each of us should come up with our own style. It is hard to imagine that his helpers who have been with him for so many years would not have picked up a lot of what Sam does. And he does say the shop will live on without him.If you go back to the the art word of a few centuries ago, many of the great artists had helpers in their studios who painted parts to the painting while the master painted the main elements. Those helpers got no recognition unless they went on to become great masters themselves. It seems to me that Sam's helpers will have the same problem. If they can become great craftsmen like Sam, the relationship with him will help build their names. If they do not become great craftsmen, then they will most likely be able to sell their work for a little more than similar work but nothing like Sam's. Just my opinion.Domer
I don't collect, but if I did, then the maker would be very important to me.
I sure hope more people start thinking like you.
d
So you are saying that the piece is worth less without knowledge of the builder then with it? Even though it looks and function the same either way? Isn’t that what they call perceived value?
<!----><!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
What is the difference between an original Picasso and an exact copy. The pricing is in the millions of dollars.Domer
Did Picasso make furniture?
<!----><!----> <!---->
Dusty,
Yup, that is what perceived value is.
And with humans, perception if far more important than fact.
(I am not kidding about this. I learned it from my wife)By the way, Ralph Picasso is a great woodworker.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Funny
Yeah dusty, and it works the other way too, with antiques. A 200 yr old piece,unlabeled, is worth a lot more than one of mine, made to order!
Ray
Let me get this straight; Ralph Picasso makes expensive furniture worth millions and an old unmarked chair is worth more then a new one.
<!----><!----> <!---->
I don’t have any Picassos in the house but I’ll pull off all the labels on my store bought furniture so I can feel rich.
<!----> <!---->
What do I do with the stuff I made?
<!----> <!---->
LOL
dusty,
I wouldn't tell you what to do, but...
If your stuff was loose in the joints, and filled with worm holes, it might help ;-))
Cheers,
Ray
Loose joints I can do, the worm hole thing I’ll have to work on. LOL
"Once the pieces are made to the exact specs and the joinery is right all the elements come together , who could tell who actually built and assembled it ?"
Because Sam's signature is on it. It's the signature that's worth $50,000, not the piece of furniture. If you doubt this, search the web for "Sam Maloof Rocker", and you will find dozens upon dozens of copycats, and they don't sell for anywhere near $10k, much less $50k. Sam doesn't care whether someone copies his work or not, and I suspect part of this is indeed that his signature is worth so much.
In one way, Sam has suceeded far beyond what almost any contemporary artist has done - his pieces bring extraordinarily high prices while he's still alive and working. Most artists have to die (so that the number of their pieces are fixed) before the price of their work reaches the stratosphere.
roc,
...he was also a bit sloshed at the time.
eef
Krenov's planes were $250 while he made them...but no, you could not talk him into making one for you now.
"A fairly wealthy client was in my shop the other day and saw the back cover of my FW magazine with the picture of the chair for $3400.00 and he said who in the he++ would put that much money into a chair that does not have any historic signifance such as a chair that came over on the Mayflower etc."
Your wealthy client may have gotten that way from having a somewhat conservative approach to spending. Most, however, don't have an "absolute" criteria for what's expensive vs. cheap - they have a sense of that based on percentages. If you're a surgeon and pull down $250k a year, spending $34,000 for a set of dining chairs really isn't that big of a deal.
All one has to do is look at vehicles to realize that there is money to be spent and people that have it to spend. Cadillacs still sell - many of them in the $65k or more range.
If you'd like a good example of this, look through Brian Bogg's offerings. For what they are, they're fairly reasonably priced because he makes many, many copies of a particular design, but they're still far, far more expensive than you're likely to see in a furniture store. Nevertheless, there's a wait list for just about everything he makes.
A PERFET ANSWER! Yes it WAS!
I did that with my new wife that agreed with me.. We bought a 1964 Vett with ALL the Extras. Payed cash! 365 HP, PosiTraction, close ratio Tansnmission.. Solid lifters and a 4:11 rear end.. We drove around for awhile.. YES I let her drive..
THEN.... we COLLECTIVELY though about the down payment for our our new housE..
Edit: As I recall then, that Vet cost us about 6 Grand! Oh, for the GOOD old days!
Edited 5/12/2009 1:01 pm by WillGeorge
Ouch. If that was a 365 HP, it was a fuel-injected car. They are rare, and they go for a lot of money in this day and age - over $100 grand if they've the original block and rochester fuel injection unit. A coupe with air conditioning is even more rare - the price gets past $150k for those cars.
Sadly, the car is turning out to be a better investment than the house at the moment.
Regarding the overall topic of this post, this is one of the biggest mistakes that woodworkers that are trying to sell their work make - which is putting their own value judgement of what constitutes a "reasonable" price for their work. Many, if not most, woodworkers are cheap, and as a result they severely underestimate what someone without their value system will pay for something custom made.
As a result, they sell their wares for very little, have huge backlogs, and are constantly runnign their tail off trying to satisfy the demand.
Someone once told me that you can starve to death in woodworking in one of two ways - either selling very cheaply or very expensively. The difference is that if you sell your work very cheaply, you'll still starve to death, but you'll be really busy. ;-)
If that was a 365 HP, it was a fuel-injected car..
As I recall when I got mine MINE (1964?) the fuel-injected one was 175 HP. Mine had a HUGE 4 barrel Carb... I had to adjust the solid lifter tappets every week! Damn car.. I LOVED IT!
According to a web site I checked, the following engine options were available for a 1964 Vette.
View Image
"There were engine improvements for 1964. The base motor (250 hp) and the upgrade L75 mill (300 hp) were unchanged but the L76 went to 365 hp (previously 340 hp) and the top dog L84 fuel injected model was now 375 hp, up from 360 hp due to revised heads, camshaft and bigger valves. All 1964 motors were 327 cubic inchers."
Now if you still had a 1963 Vette split-window coupe you would have a real collector car.
My memory is not always so good either. :<)
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Will - the highest horsepower small-block engines in 63, 64, and 65 were the fuel-injected models, and all had solid lifters. The carbureted cars were hydraulic-lifter ones, with (slightly) lower horsepower. Chevy stopped offering the fuel injections in 66 (65 was the last year), because most dealers didn't have mechanics that knew how to properly adjust them.
The 65s with fuel injection are very rare - less than 300 were made. The prices of them on the secondary market are accordingly stratospheric. However, for some odd reason collectors want the 396 cu inch big-block cars. While more common, they go for even higher prices. The problem with a big block in a stingray body, though, is that they're too heavy, and the tires of the day couldn't handle the torque that these engines put out, so they don't drive well.
But like everything else in the antique performance car market, I suppose, "big" has more cachet. I've seen some extraordinarily stupid examples of this - a 1966 chevelle with an L77 engine going for near $1 million in a Barret-Jackson auction, while a pristine, 1956 Mercedes gull-wing coupe with its original, matched leather luggage had a hard time making $300k in the same sale. That's idiotic - the gull-wing was a far more graceful, sophisticated car, but undriveable, big-iron muscle in an ugly chassis wins out everytime.
>1956 Mercedes gull-wing coupe with its original, matched leather luggageYou are making me salivate all over myself. Not the easiest car to get in and out of for galavanting around town for shopping : ) but given the choice I could put up with that.DroooolrocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
I had a 63 split window coupe with a 340 hp engine and solid lifters. The solid lifters needed adjustment quite often but I enjoyed the clicking sound they made. They were a pain to adjust as you had to deal with the hot oil coming at you. I had some clips to control the oil that just worked OK. The fuel injected engine was 365 hp with solid lifter also. That car would do 60 in first gear, no wonder I totalled it one night.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.
Mel ,
Sam Maloof was the maker we spoke of . Seems to me a main difference in Krenov's students / apprentices they at least make pieces designed and influenced by the Master , where Maloof's never build a piece , according to popular belief .
regards dusty,a simple boxmaker
We as woodworker have to face the fact that not ever one sees what we see. If we see something we like but the price is out of reach we have the capability to make our own. When this is seen by another then that is special.
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