Replies

1. 
   Sgian_Dubh | Nov 12, 1999 04:43pm | #1

   *
   Architects, interior designers and established clients have no problem accepting it for the most part. They make their money from doing exactly that, and they accept that design work is not usually free. Sometimes you have to pretend you're not charging for it, but it's in there somewhere. Other times you just have eat it and do it for 'free,' or not much anyway to start a business relationship.

   Then there are queries generated off a website. If the initial enquiry asking for further information includes such phrases as, "We are very environmentally conscious," "We want you to send us some more pictures," "We are looking for a dining table and chairs," written in a semi literate scrawl, it's time to be wary. The request for you to come up with some work for them is usually so vaguely thought out to be of little use. These are mostly time wasters that might be kids roaming the web and just pulling your wire. Here it's time to pull out your standard polite email response asking for more information before you can proceed, etc,. Included in that response somewhere is a phrase something like, "Anything beyond an initial concept sketch will of course be subject to the usual design fees at $50 per hour," or whatever you charge. This sorts out the wheat from the chaff pdq. If they are serious, they'll get back. If not, that's the last you'll hear of it.

1. 
   robert_james | Nov 14, 1999 03:20am | #2

   *This is simple. You charge for your design work, drafting time and layout time. Come on this is America. No one is giving me free time. Estimates are free.If you have a client with a vague idea or concept, it is their job to show you a direction. It is your job to pull it out of them, in a kind and polite manner. Another approach is to give them exactly what your going to build for them. I use this often with people who are not design oriented, it works. Most important learn to size up your client are they strong characters or a little wishy washy are they open to ideas or are they conservitive in their tastes. Observe the style of decor.As Sgian said. Give them a figure. I only give out lump sum quotes. Unless its a large multi piece project and then i break it down only per piece. I hope this helps

1. 
   Sgian_Dubh | Nov 14, 1999 03:57am | #3

   *Robert, you've reminded me of another good way to quickly weed out time wasters. Point them towards a picture of a piece in your portfolio, on your website, an actual piece in your office/showroom, and tell them how much it is. Much of my work is aimed at galleries and shows, and I don't stint on the quality with these items. If the potential client falls over clutching their chest, be polite but you'll probably just have to get rid of them. If they don't bat an eyelid, you know they understand the process, and the charges; or they at least can be guided through it amicably.My gallery/show stuff is super expensive. It's a one off, I've come up with the concept, I've sketched it, and fiddled with it until it's the way I want it. I've made the jigs, and sorted out all the other technical problems. I want to be paid for my work when, and if it's sold; And that includes my design time too.Thanks for the prompt.

1. 
   Fred_Matthews | Nov 14, 1999 09:57am | #4

   *Callum:Clients pay for design. It only took one job of providing a client with a design at no cost to realize I was spending many hours at no compensation.My first step in developing a piece is to meet w/ the potential client and give them an idea of the type of work I do and the relative costs of previous pieces I have built. If the client has sticker shock, it quickly becomes apparent. If we are still talking, we discuss the project, I try to get a feel for their needs and desires, and if it looks like we can proceed I will agree to provide a thumbnail sketch and possibly a budget estimate. After this phase, to proceed, the clients must agree to pay for detailed drawings and a cost estimate. If we are still in agreement, the project proceeds to a Proposal detailing the exact Scope of Work, materials, finish and delivery terms. A key component of the Proposal is a section I add called "Extra Work". I feel this is important and I insist that clients understand its implications prior to acceptance of the Proposal. Its difficult to explain to a client why you can't afford to take 12 hours of work and flush it down the drain because of a whim that they dreamed up. When you have a signed contract which commits the client to pay for any changes at a cost of Time and Materials, you can quickly put a dollar figure on the clients whim. Generally, the change never materializes.Potential clients should quickly be brought into the realm of reality...particuarly if you make one off pieces. If a client brings me a picture of a piece from a furniture store, I immediately inform them that if they truly like this piece, they should buy it from the store....I don't copy others work.The best clients are those that have a specific piece with a specific purpose for a specific place in their home. And they like your work, and know that custom work costs real $$.

1. 
   Jim_Williams | Jan 10, 2000 09:48am | #5

   *Gotta agree. I've had too many hours uncompensated for design time. Intial consultation and thumbnails/ballparks-free. If I have to sit at the computer or drawing board, I charge...however, I normally tell the client: if you go with me the price is included in the estimate, if you don't, you pay me the design fee. That way, they don't get the impression they're paying for it twice. Seems to work well, and lets them know that my time is valuable.

2. 
   CStanford_ | Jan 17, 2000 09:42pm | #6

   *Excellent advice from Sgian. The man clearly knows his business.

3. 
   bill_taber | Jan 21, 2000 05:06pm | #7

   *CallumMust agree with previous writers. Design fees are part of the process of custom building. I incorporate them in the cost of a piece. In order to weed out non-serious patrons I collect a 50% deposit from estimated cost prior to any design work. Final cost is determined after final design approval by customer. If for any reason the customer changes his/her mind on job the deposit is refundable less design fee (this has never happened), design fees are usually in the 10% of overall cost.

4. 
   Stanley_Niemiec | Feb 25, 2000 06:37am | #8

   *Callum: I take a slightly different approach. For private customers, I have an estimate fee, more or less dependent on the potential value of the piece. I then work up drawings and a firm price which I submit to the potential customer in a face-to-face meeting. If they want the drawings, they pay for those; and if they choose, they can have them for what ever use they desire, including taking them to other woodworkers. And any of these paid monies, I consider as part of a deposit if they choose to have me do the job. On bigger jobs, my estimates include an itemized line for drawings. It all depends on the size of the job. In some cases, especially small ones,