Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 12, 2007 06:01am | #1

   There are several solutions.  The colored wax will work of coarse, but you can attack the problem more permanently. 

   One approach is to dye, then seal with shellac and follow with a pigmented stain.  The stain will lodge in the pores, but have less impact on the surface in between because of the sealing. 

   Another approach is to use a different dye.  Arti makes a dye specifically formulated to "take" in the almost waxy pores on woods like the oak.  It is called ArtiPorin and is sold by Highland Hardware. 

   http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=7433

    

1. 
   allenb | Dec 12, 2007 06:39am | #2

   Thanks Steve

   I have never heard of those Atriporin dyes.  Very interesting information.  I may try to work with the pigment this time and see how it works.  Christmas is coming quick you know.  Not sure I can mail order it and get finished in time.

   Any brand of stain that you would recommend?

2. 
   hammer1 | Dec 12, 2007 08:25am | #3

   Water based dyes don't penetrate white oak pores. There are tyloses in white oak that make it waterproof. Other open grain species have trouble accepting water dyes, too, despite not having tyloses. Why not use an oil stain?

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   allenb | Dec 13, 2007 01:46am | #4

   You know, some times the simplest solution is the best.  In this case I think you have nailed it.

   Thanks,

2. 
   SgianDubh | Dec 13, 2007 01:56am | #5

   Hammer, I think the non-penetration and colouring of open pored woods in those pores by water based dyes is more to do with the surface tension of water than it is to do with the formation of tyloses.

   I'm not 100% sure of my reasoning, so I'm open to good counter arguments, but it's my understanding that the water bridges the hollows (the open grain) rather than flowing into all the nooks and crannies. If the water can't flow into the open pores, the dye can't be deposited on the wood, penetrate, and colour it.

   As I said, I'm open to being corrected if the information I've gleaned and repeated here is incorrect. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 13, 2007 06:28am | #6

   I've seen that mensioned a lot also, but I've also seen reports that breaking surface tension by adding a few drops of dish soap (like Dawn in US) has not always solved the problem.  The problem seems to be an almost waxy surface of the insides of the tyloses that the typical water based dye can't penetrate. After all, oak pores are so large that surface tension isn't likely to prevent entry of the dye, but the surface prevents the dye from "taking".  I've seen this effect, where the dye almost beads up inside the open pores.  I've not used the Arti Porin dye opting mostly for other reasons to follow dye with a pigmented stain that also solves the problem with pores. 

2. 
   hammer1 | Dec 13, 2007 07:32am | #7

   You are right, the water just won't drop into the pores of many open grained species. White oak has the addition of tyloses which makes this particular species watertight. That's why it's used for boats and things like wine casks. It's a double whammy when trying to use a water dye on it. Beat it to fit / Paint it to match