Replies

1. 
   bones | Sep 27, 2007 06:08am | #1

   I bought the PRL about two years ago and love it. It is exact and the scales are excellent. I like the quality of the machined parts and the fact it's drive is chain not a rubber belt.  Thats My two cents worth. 

   Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
   If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
   And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
   
1. 
   BilljustBill | Sep 27, 2007 06:13am | #2

     Thanks Bones,

     I was wondering what thread count you asked for...16 or 32?

     Bill

1. 
   bones | Sep 27, 2007 04:58pm | #6

   "I was wondering what thread count you asked for...16 or 32?"

   I have the 32.  Some complain that it takes too many cranks to move it, but I don't have a problem. I love the fine accuracy of the tool.  We are talking thousands.  If you want to move it fast, just use a B&D electric screwdriver.  For my fence I use the Incra LS20. I have a PC 7518 mounted in my plate. It is sweet. I made my table from Norm's plans but added locking casters.  I just move it around.  BTW, I will also reccomend the optional ring set. I still get the weekly flyer via e-mail, and saw it was on sale.  They are nice.  I looked long and hard before I made my mind up.  It was a close tie with the Jessem, but in the end, the chain drive won out over the rubber belt. I'm sure either would have been fine. Anyway, I've used mine a lot and would not change the decision. Good luck.  Here is a link with some pics of my set-up. 

    

   http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=17631.1

   .

    Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

2. 
   [email protected] | Sep 28, 2007 05:17pm | #14

   If you get the 16 pitch then each 1/4 turn is a 64th-in, and an 1/8th turn is 128th-in, of height adjustment. 

   Realistically, you can adjust to 16th turns or less.  So, you should be all right with that unless you are trying to machine wood like it is metal. 

2. 
   THintz | Sep 27, 2007 09:54am | #4

   I also have been using the PRL for a few years (at least) and love it. As mentioned, I'd have to go out and pull it out to remember what it looks like below the table because I have never had to take it out. I have the 16 pitch and have never felt lacking for adjustment accuracy. I have a review of the PRL with lots of photos at the link below if you are not familiar with it. It is a very well built piece.

   http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/wdpkprlrvu.html

    Tom Hintz

   Because there is always more to learn!

2. 
   Jollyroger | Sep 27, 2007 07:19am | #3

   I put a PRL in my table a few years ago and I don't remember what it looks like anymore. It just goes up and down and up and down..... I got the fine pitch, but I think the 16 would be no problem. The PRL is set up for the PC7518, which is a 3HP motor, if you don't mind that power(and price).

3. 
   Jfrostjr | Sep 27, 2007 03:08pm | #5

   The PRL is the way to go! Chain drive - yes, but for me the fact that it has 2 lift screws was more important. No cocking!

   I have the 32 pitch. I got a length of hex rod and with that chucked in my drill it is up and down in no time.

   Frosty

   "I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922

4. 
   Drew1house | Sep 27, 2007 05:56pm | #7

   If you are looking for repeatable every time the same accuracy get this one... I looked hard before making the purchase and thought this was as good a lift as any out there (very heavy duty) but the Wixey Digital guage clinched it.

   Drew

   http://www.jointech.com/smartliftdigital.htm

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/27/2007 10:57 am ET by Drew1house

1. 
   81treehouse | Sep 28, 2007 04:37am | #8

   OK.  Now I have to ask.

   Why spend all that money on a router/lift/table instead of a shaper that also can accept router bits?

   I manually adjust the router on my table and have considered a lift but I also have considered a shaper.

   Suggestions?????

    A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!

1. 
   PeterDurand | Sep 28, 2007 09:27am | #9

   "Why spend all that money on a router/lift/table instead of a shaper that also can accept router bits?"Different speeds for the work involved.Cheers,Peter 

2. 
   bones | Sep 28, 2007 04:59pm | #11

   You have started one of those Ford .vs. Chevy threads.  You will get strong views on both sides of the argument.  For me, I see them both having places. It depends on your needs.  In my opinion, the shaper is great for hogging off lots of wood and running lots of production.  The bits are bigger, but selection is smaller (in general), and more expensive, but that can be ok depending on what you need.  A router table with out a lift can work with a big motor like the triton or like the PC7518 which I use but with the Woodpecker PRL.  I happen to like the lift for the precise movement capability.  You can get really close without the precision, but it is nice to dial it in dead on.  I also use an Incra fence that has really precise movements.  My needs were for a hobbyist, and mass production was not a requirement, and I could not afford both, which would be the ultimate solution, so I went will versatility. Shaping capability lower production speed, with versitility of variable speed with the router.  That's just me and M2CW.  Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

3. 
   frenchy | Sep 28, 2007 05:16pm | #13

   81treehouse

    a shaper is really the way to go!  $ the $315.00 one http://www.grizzly.com sells is a nice way to wean yourself from router bits.  You'll buy a few shaper cutters and find out they cost about the same as the better router bits do and yet last 10 times longer. Keep your router moble as it was intended..

     The quieter, faster,  safer, nicer, parts are just bonuses.

4. 
   Drew1house | Sep 28, 2007 07:23pm | #15

   I have this mounted in my table saw table due to a real lack of room in my shop for another tool. I would love to get a shaper... but in my opinion... get a shaper and get a powerfeed... that kind of power makes me a little nervous... also the cutters do cost significantly more... A great router bit costs a lot more than a cheap one... like $2.50 versus $40.00 plus... A shaper cutter can be cheap which in pricing them the cheap ones cost like $40 plus and the expensive ones are out of my price range. I have considered a shaper that could hold the larger router bits... But really if I was to get one I would get a BIG one... Like a 5 horse with 220v with a powerfeed... otherwise my lift and Giant PC variable speed router does a very comparable job in my opinion (for a lot less floor space used). The other thing is this particular lift you can set a zero point with each of your router bits and then get the exact same cut every single time. (this has been really handy)... Drew

1. 
   81treehouse | Sep 28, 2007 09:18pm | #16

   Drew1house, Peter Durand, Frenchy, Bones:

   Thanks for the opinions.  I have two router tables (rails & stiles bits, preset) with no lifts.  And multiple handheld portables - mostly PC brand.

   I have considered a shaper but as pointed out, bits cost more.  But for the cost of a lift, I can buy a shaper and use router bits if necessary.

   Hmmmmm!

   I am not going to procrastinate any more.  I am going to bite the bullet and buy one or the other within the next week, or month, or year or whenever someone convinces me to not buy one or the other.  That is, unless I have to buy one to satisfy a pressing need. :-)

   Thanks Guys

    

   PS: Does anyone know how to post a message with multiple addressees other than to the person named "All"  :-)

    

    A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!

1. 
   Drew1house | Sep 28, 2007 10:19pm | #17

   if you get a shaper make sure it is variable speed if you are planning to use a router bit in the thing... they sound like a helecopter spinning up and I dont think a router bit is designed to spin under load as fast as they can spin those things... scares me... I think the shaper is the most dangerous of all shop tools. (I have used many at school)Drew

2. 
   frenchy | Sep 28, 2007 11:49pm | #18

   Drew1 hous

   ?

     Routers run at 13,000 rpm plus.   Shapers turn 6000 rpm

     The rest of your post is at question as well.

3. 
   Drew1house | Oct 02, 2007 11:39pm | #20

   you are correct of course... I had things backwards... none the less... the speed difference still puts you in a position where you are useing the bit for something it was not designed for.This was good...http://benchmark.20m.com/articles/ShaperVersusRouter/shaper_versus_router.htmlFunny thing... I met an old guy at a woodworking class that was a digit short and this came up (over the weekend) he lost it due to kickback on a climb cut. (he admitted his stupidity) on a shaper... again reinforcing my opinion that with a blade this big if I end up with one it will have a powerfeed...

   Edited 10/2/2007 4:44 pm ET by Drew1house

4. 
   frenchy | Oct 03, 2007 05:33am | #21

   Drew1house,

     It's extremely easy to lose fingers with power tools if you do not respect their ability for finger removal. I personally Have seen more damage done by tablesaws than shapers, but surprisingly according to the emergency room doctor who attended my broken arm from my table saw,  the most common didget removal tool is the band saw..

    I am a deep lover of push sticks and any device intended to keep fingers from spinning cutting edges..

     I've seen power feeders misused as well.  I do not think that they are the absolute solution to avoiding the risks involved with power tools.

     However any time we're talking about doing major wood removal with either a shaper or router there is considerable risk.. My experiance has been that router lift tables have their own risks in addition to the risk of the cutter edge..

     Router lift tables simply do not have enough mass to be stable in all circumstances.  A heavy long board can tip them over. They are light enough to move around unless solidly bolted into place.. they can react in a way that might cause additional damage and danger where a more massive shaper won't

5. 
   frenchy | Sep 28, 2007 11:56pm | #19

   81treehouse,

     go to http://www.grizzly.com  and look up the price of shaper bits compared to the better router bits that you buy..

    a carbide tipped shaper (cutter not bit)  starts around $22.00  and goes up.. router bits are similarly priced depending on what brand and  where you buy them..

     I have run thousands of bd ft. across my shaper and still get clean crisp lines in a single pass.  It's never been sharpened.. I know that I'm sharpening the router bits long before that point or they get fuzzy and sometimes burn the wood..

5. 
   Moksha | Sep 28, 2007 04:44pm | #10

   Bill,

   Why not purchase a router that will eliminate the need for the lift?
   An Article in Fine Woodworking about the Triton router said the following:

   "The Triton also is well-suited for table-mounted applications. The microadjust shaft is accessible under the router base for above-table height adjustments with an included crank handle. "

   This router costs about $200 and eliminates the need for the lift
   mechanism.

   In my own shop the shaper gets far far more work than the router table. The shaper is a far better tool for much of the work that ends up on router tables.

   Moksha

6. 
   frenchy | Sep 28, 2007 05:12pm | #12

   Bill,

     I wouldn't buy a router lift.. I'd buy a shaper, why spend more money on a decent lift than a proper shaper would cost?  Grizzly, Jet, and others sell one for $315 dollars it even has an optional router bit adapter.

     There have been countless arguements in favor of a shaper over a router lift.. one big one is it keeps your router free and moble..   shapers also work faster quieter and safer..

7. 
   BarryO | Oct 03, 2007 08:40pm | #22

   Consider how much they cost, I've never seen much need for a router lift(?).    What things are they needed for that make them worth the extra $$$?

1. 
   frenchy | Oct 03, 2007 08:54pm | #23

   BarryO

    When making some pieces it's nice to see the work as it's being done rather than running a router over it and having it disappear.    You can also do some tasks with a lift/shaper that a router won't let you do as well or at all.

1. 
   BarryO | Oct 04, 2007 02:52am | #24

   Yea OK I have a router table.  But I can adjust the height by either reaching under the table, or as in my case (and now also with several other routers), using the router's own above-table adjustment.  But what is it about a router lift that's worth an extra $200 or so?  I must be missing something really good  that this $200 would get me, but I don't know what it is.

1. 
   frenchy | Oct 04, 2007 04:08pm | #25

   BarryO

     You keep mentioning a router lift and I keep thinking in terms of a shaper. In all reality they are the same thing except a shaper is designed to last doing the job some adapt a router to do with a lift table..

     The fundamental advantage of a shaper/lift table with a router over just a router which I think is what you are asking is in the way they do the same job..  one does it blind and one you  can watch the wood as it goes across the cutter/bit. 

     The shaper you don't have to reach underneath to adjust depth all the controls as they say fall readily at hand.. ;-)

     Clearly, clever people have been doing stuff for years using just a router.  However if you have a lot of material to remove (Like raised panels) or a long run of something etc.. A shaper is much the superior piece of equipment and a lift table is just a way to adapt a router to attempt to do the same job..  

2. 
   Buster2000 | Oct 05, 2007 11:25am | #26

   Barry,

   I don't know if a router lift is 'worth' the money.  It's not on any real 'must have' lists.  To me it's a luxury, and I'm not ashamed of saying that.  I use my Bosch 2 1/4 HP in it, and I can swap it in and out rather quickly.  I can also do fine adjustments quickly, nothing that one of the new router table routers couldn't do...

   In the end it's just a nice thing to have.  My shop isn't hurting for lumber, or any other necessity... so why not?

   Buster

2. 
   Drew1house | Oct 05, 2007 07:45pm | #28

   One other thing... the tip of your standard shaper cutter is traveling as fast as a router bit or pretty close when it impacts the wood as the diameter of the cutter is larger. This changes things when you are useing a smaller bit as the speed is slower which may not be a bad thing for a large bit. does not burn as much. I dont know really... I really really like my digital router lift with the wixey gauge. When you change bits you lower the bit to below the table and raise it to even with the top of the plate (I use a little peice of lexan) and hit the Zero calibration button... then you raise it to .78 or whatever you were at the last time you made a cut. It makes it so each cut is exactly reproduceable each time you change the bit. I just write the setting on the half inch shaft when I pull the bit out from the last use with a thing sharpie. It makes things a lot easier. It is from Jointech.com...Drew

8. 
   chipsndust | Oct 05, 2007 07:24pm | #27

   I bought the Woodpecker " quick lift " a year ago for my Milwaukee 5625, and have absolutely No Regrets. I couldn't rely on the internal Ht. adjustment feature any longer even though I had Milwaukee service the base twice.  Precision, accuracy, and ease of operation.  The " quick lift " works very well for my needs.

   Chipsndust