Replies

1. 
   mwenz | Dec 15, 2006 08:07am | #1

   I have vintage oval bolstered mortise [OBM] chisels. That is one option. An option for new of the same type are the Ray Iles oval bolstered mortise chisels at Tools for Working Wood. These are excellent chisels.

   Other new ones people say are good are the Hirsch/Two Cherries, which you can get from a variety of places, such as Lee Valley. I personally don't like the handles being as large as they are.

   Yet another option are those from Lie-Nielsen and Sorby models, both available from Woodcraft. I am not sure about the Hirsch, but I would call the LN and Sorby sash mortise chisels. That is, they have parallel sides.

   An OBM chisel has sides which taper slightly from the back to the front of the chisel. That and their mass contribute to effecient banging out of mortises.

   Well, that's my two cents for the day...Take care, Mike

2. 
   Troy | Dec 15, 2006 09:31am | #2

   You might take a look at the Japanese mortise chisels, there is a very good video by the late Jim kingshot demonstrating how to use these.

   Anyway good luck

   Troy

3. 
   pzgren | Dec 15, 2006 06:32pm | #3

   Chabber,

     I use the Crown mortise chisels; they are only marginally satisfactory, as the steel is a wee bit soft for my taste. I may end up re-doing the heat treatment to make them harder.

     As Mike mentioned above, Chris Schwartz recently wrote an article on the Ray Iles (son of Ashley Iles)  "pig sticker" style mortise chisels. He thought very highly of them. So....there's another possibility for you. (I have no experience with these, so I can make no recommendation either way....)

   http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-MORT.XX&Category_Code=TBMC

     As others have mentioned, the LNs and Two Cherries are also highly thought of.

   Beste Wünschen auf eine Fröhlichen Weihnachten und ein glückliches Neues Jahr!

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!

   James

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/15/2006 10:34 am by pzgren

1. 
   chabber | Dec 15, 2006 06:42pm | #4

   Those Ray Iles chisels are just plain awesome looking. Although, I must confess, they might be a little out of my price range. The LNs, of course, look beautiful and I was surprised that they are about the same price as the two cherries.In looking at the Sorby chisels, I keep running across their "Registered " mortise chisel. From the pics, they dont seem as hefty. What is the story with these? They look like regular beveled chisels just without the bevel.

1. 
   pzgren | Dec 15, 2006 07:09pm | #5

   Chabber,

     I agree, the Ray Iles chisels are awsome; really beautiful tools!

     Not real knowledgeable about the Sorbys, but I do remember, within the last year or so, there being quite a bit of commentary in the WW forums about the quality-control on the heat treatment/steel being pretty variable. Don't remember many details off the top of my head, except that some people said they got chisels that were properly hardened and others said that they got ones that weren't. With that in mind, and with no personal experience with them, I'd be reluctant to recommend the Sorbys..... (more research may be in order, and they may have gotten their quality-control problems solved -- I simply don't know....).

     Personally, I'd go for a more "heavy-duty" mortise chisel design than the "registered" pattern -- like the LNs, Two Cherries, or the Ray Iles -- if you plan to regularly do a lot of hand-cut mortises. IIRC, "registered" chisels were intended for light-duty mortising in windows (muntins, mullions, sash bars, and such) and similar operations, but I may be confused here (if so, someone will hopefully chime in and correct me).

     Most people only need a couple of sizes -- usually ¼" or 3/8" and ½" or 5/8" -- to do 90%+ of their mortising, so maybe the Iles chisles really aren't out of reach..... Anyway, have fun deciding which ones to get!Beste Wünschen auf eine Fröhlichen Weihnachten und ein glückliches Neues Jahr!

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!

   James

1. 
   derekcohen | Dec 15, 2006 07:36pm | #6

   Oval Bolstered Mortice Chisels rule! I put together several sizes from 1/8" - 1/2" in vintage chisels on eBay for a relatively low amount (a small fraction of new). My advice is to look for unhandled chisels and re-handle them yourself. It is quite easy to do.

   View Image

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   pzgren | Dec 15, 2006 07:50pm | #7

   Derek,

     Those are some very fine looking chisels you have there!! What are the woods that you used for the handles?Beste Wünschen auf eine Fröhlichen Weihnachten und ein glückliches Neues Jahr!

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!

   James

2. 
   derekcohen | Dec 15, 2006 08:08pm | #9

   What are the woods that you used for the handles?

   Hi James

   Left to right:

   View Image

   Grey Gum (with a Jarrah stain - it is a very, very hard wood but a bland pale colour), Jarrah, Beech, Ripple Ash (I got this one from Ray Isles in the UK), and Rosewood.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

    

3. 
   pzgren | Dec 15, 2006 08:17pm | #10

   Hi Derek,

     Thanks for the quick reply.

     I thought the second-from-left was Jarrah, but wasn't sure. The ripple ash and Jarrah-stained grey gum are also a very attractive woods!

     <<Grey Gum (....it is a very, very hard wood....),>>

     Do you guys there in OZ have any woods that aren't very, very hard???  LOL  ;-)Beste Wünschen auf eine Fröhlichen Weihnachten und ein glückliches Neues Jahr!

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!

   James

4. 
   MikeHennessy | Dec 15, 2006 08:00pm | #8

   Most mortise chisels (new ones, anyway) are really sash mortise chisels. I.e., they have parallel sides. Really designed for shallow mortises. I have a set of these that I use if I HAVE to. If the mortise is deep, they tend to twist and jam and it's hard to keep the mortise straight. I've used "pig stickers" and they are WAY better for serious mortises. I went online the other day to pick up a few of the Iles (1/4" and 1/2"), but they were out of stock. Bottom line is, if you want to do shallow work, the sash chisels will be fine. Anything deep, you can use the sash chisels, but the "pig stickers" will be better. If you plan on the latter, you don't necessarily need a full set. Just get what you need for your present project and build a set over time. You MAY be able to find antiques for less $$$, but they are not all that common.

   Just my $.02. YMMV.

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh, PA

1. 
   chabber | Dec 15, 2006 08:21pm | #11

   Thanks for the info, Mike. What would you consider a "deep" mortise? Anything over an inch? Half inch?

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Dec 15, 2006 08:55pm | #12

   How "deep" is "deep"? Well, there is no real magic number. I can tell you "deep" in oak is not as much as in pine -- it's kind of a sliding scale depending on depth and how hard the wood is. 1" shouldn't be a problem at any rate. But if you are looking to do 2" deep mortises, it ain't so much fun. Not impossible, just not much fun. I usually use a hollow chisel for these or pare the sides just a bit as I get deeper to give me some "breathing space" for the sash chisels.

   Another thing to consider: I often see advice to pre-drill mortises to make them easier to chisel. This works OK if you are using butt chisels or bench chisels, but for me, it only makes it harder if I'm using mortise chisels. They just get wedged and refuse to keep a line. The technique that works best for me is to drive the chisel in about 1/16" deep every 1/16" inch or so along the length of the mortise, then clean up the resulting chips, being careful not to mess up the shoulders by prying against them.  (You may want to consider stopping the mortise a bit shy of the ends and clean them up last to eliminate the corners you deformed by prying against them --even though you promised yourself you wouldn't <G>). You need to be careful to keep things aligned for the first pass or two, but after that, it's just following the slot that's been created. Pre-drilling pretty much eliminates using this method.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

1. 
   chabber | Dec 15, 2006 09:05pm | #13

   Mike, thanks for the info. That's great.At this point, I am leaning toward the LN. They seem pretty sturdy looking and the "pig stickers" are probably overkill for what I will be doing. Like some people mentioned, I can just get them as I go along since you don't really need a whole set starting off.Thanks to everyone for the info. This is my first foray into Knots and it has been great. Good info.

1. 
   Lataxe | Dec 16, 2006 06:23pm | #14

   Chabber,

   I too have just acquired and begun using mortise chisels.  I got Two Cherries (6, 8 and 12mm) in the end, as they seem to get the best overall review (combination of quality, design and price). 

   I did fancy the Ray Iles ones but was put off a bit by their price; lack of a metal hoop; the apparent lack of metric sizes; but mostly by a couple of reports that one or more of your purchases might have a bow or a twist in it (although they are replaced straight away, if so).  I didn't want the hassle.

   In retrospect, the Two Cherries are functionally good, requiring only a little bit of back-flattening and a basic hone to get the micro-bevel angle you want. They are proper mortise chiels, with a very slight wedge shape to their (thick) blade, leather washer, metal hoops and so forth.

   I have managed to chop clean-sided, straight motises with them from the first try, although it took a while! So far, the edges have remained intact and cutting well, despite the heavy blows with the mallet (Ian Kirkby says, Hit It!!).

   They do have a couple of things about them I don't like:

   The chisel blades are mirror polished but then laquered.  You need to scrape the laquer off the business end, which happens automatically when you flatten the back and make the micro-bevel. You could take the lacquer off the sides too - but as they are a slight wedge shape, the lacquer there does not seem to intefere with the cut.

   The handles are big (as Mike Wenzloff points out) which may or may not suit you.  However, they also have a poor varnish job slapped (or dipped) on them (including the metal hoops). I may sand mine off and also make a couple of flats on them to help align the blade to the mortise, when chopping the first cuts. (The Ray Iles oval handles are oval partly for that reason, I understand).

   Lastly, I was surpried to hear someone say the Two Cherries were nearly as expensive as the Lie Nielsens.  In Britain the LNs are about twice the price of similar-sized TCs.

   Lataxe

2. 
   AdamCherubini | Dec 16, 2006 09:29pm | #15

   Just a quick correction, Mike. Sash chisels are designed for the short, deep mortises found on sash. They are kind of a mix between a joiner's mortise chisel (the oval boltered, tanged jobby) and a tanged firmer cross section wise. A typical sash mortise might be 1/4" or 5/32 wide, by 1/2" long, by 3/4" deep. Sash are almost always done in soft wood. The chisel is pretty much just punched, fibers crushed etc. These tools might make sense for the folks who drill first.I use a controversial paring technique with my joiner's mortisers. I can't neccessarily recommend the technique to everyone, but for folks who want to use it, a good old fashioned joiner's chisel seems to work best. As to the tapered/drafted sides, I think all chisels had that feature once upon a time. I think its absence is due to manufacturing issues (machined chisels). I agree that it helps give you a little wiggle room in the mortise. I don't think I could recommend a thick chisel without that taper.For people interested in cabinetry, who work 4/4 hardwoods and buy their wood rough, I recommend either an antique, or a Ray Illes 5/32" joiner's chisel. If all of your stock is always purchased 4/4 planed and then you surface it yourself (by whatever means neccessary) get a 1/4".Adam