Hi,
I’m in the market for a planer but I’m not sure which one to buy. It’s come down to 2 choices. The Delta 13 inch industrial planer Model # 22-580C and the Delta 12 1/2 inch portable planer Model # TP 499LS. The 13″ planer is on sale for $349 origionally $599.00 (canadian) and the 12 1/2 inch planer costs $299 at Home Depot (online)
Is there that much of a difference between the 2 planers. besides the fact that one cuts boards 1/2 inch wider. They both have 2 feed speeds.The delta 13″ has a blade zero indicator that sets cutterhead to exact thicknes of the material. 20 FPM for dimensioning and 30FPM (30 ? per minute) not sure what that stands for. …for utra smooth surface on final pass. Am I better off purchasing the 12 1/2 inch Delta planer at Home Depot for less?
The Dewalt 735 with its 3 cutterheads was just too expensive. 🙁 What I’m concerned about is snipe. As a weekend woodworker what other features should I be looking for?
How do you rate the importance of a planer in the small workshop? in otherwords would you rate it as must have for building small pieces of furniture? My friend was wondering why I’d bother and spend all that money on a planer. What tools would you recommend as absolutely essential to the weekend woodworker?
Wendy
Replies
Wanda200b,
Can't help you much other than to say that 'fpm' is feet per minute, essentially how fast the board will be pulled through the machine. If I'm not mistaken (and maybe I am), the cuts per inch (more generally means finer finish) that you will get is a combination of the following:
1) cutters on the cutter head (determines how many cuts per revolution);
2) revolutions per minute (revolutions x number of cutters equals number of cuts per minutes); and
3) speed at which the board is pulled past the cutterhead.
My list of essential tools for the power tool weekend woodworker would include:
1) bandsaw and/or tablesaw;
2) planer; and
3) jointer.
The jointer and planer will combine to give you straight, square and uniformly thick stock without cup, twist, bow, etc. Having good boards to start with greatly simplifies woodworking. Good luck.
Matt
Wendy - I agree with Matt. IMO, a planer and a jointer are essential for building furniture unless you want to do this by hand. I would opt for the planer than provides more cuts per inch especially if you work in hardwoods or wood with wild grain. You will get a better finish. My planer is 2 speed and I always use the slower feed speed. I buy all my lumber in the rough and joint/plane it myself to eliminate cupping and bowing after the wood has acclimated in my shop. You seldom get this with dimensioned lumber. You will also need a planer if you need thinner than standard stock.
Your friend sounds like a non-woodworker and is not likely to understand your need for a planer. This is like golfing without a set of clubs. I have a number of friends that don't understand why I drop so much money on woodworking tools and machinery. It is my hobby and I use them every weekend all year long. I doubt that they can say the same thing about the $25K boats or $8K four wheelers they buy.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Wish I could afford the Dewalt planer but I'm sure the Delta 13" planer will do a fine job. Just hope the Delta planer is still on sale. I have been after a jointer and planer for years. This is a deal I can't afford to give up. (basically a no brainer!) All I need now to complete my workshop is a jointer. Would you recommend a 6" or 8" jointer. 6" wouldn't take up as much room in my small shop.
Wendy
Wendy, I started with a 4" jointer and about 20 years ago upgraded to an 8". Late last year I upgraded again to a 16". I think the size you will need depends on how you intend to use it. If you want it for just edge jointing, the smaller size will be fine. However, to dimension lumber, I would recommend at least an 8" jointer. This size will enable you to face joint most lumber and then use your planer to mill the opposite side. As an alternative, I have read about sleds that people use in their planers to fulfill the face jointing function although I have never tried it. I believe there was a recent article on this in FWW. Since your purchase of a planer appears immenent, you may want to try this and see how it works for you as a stopgap measure until you get a jointer.
Steve
I've had both Delta planers: I first bought the 12 1/2 (TP 305), and when I ran that one into the ground, I bought the newer model (22-580).
The newer one has more bells and whistles, but at least for my purposes, they are unnecessary. Moreover, the new one is bigger, heavier, and more difficult to lug around. And finally, I don't see any difference in the cut quality.
With one caveat, my recommendation would be to buy the 12 1/2". The caveat?? ---The new one may be more durable than this model. I used this planer to dimension rough stock before I submit it to my primary planer; I wore the bearings out on the 12 1/2 after running it for this purpose for 3-4 years, and the price of replacing them did not make the repair cost effective.
It's possible the bearings and mechnical guts have been improved on the new model; I just don't know. If you can find some evidence that the 580 has been improved in this regard (and you don't mind the extra weight), then I think it would be worth the extra $50.
********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
"They both have 2 feed speeds." Wanda, I'm not seeing a 2-speed 12-1/2" planer on the Delta web site (nor am I finding a 499LS model, but there is a 400LS model).
The 13" planer is a 2-speed planer, but the 12-1/2" model is not. The advantage of a 2-speed model shows itself the most when planing figured wood -- the slower feed speed, which yields more cuts per inch, helps reduce tear-out in the wood.
Personally, I'd appreciate the extra features of the 13" model, especially the depth stop and the "blade zero" indicator.
PS: Glad to hear you're able to add this incredibly useful machine to your tool stable!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 8/7/2005 1:15 pm ET by forestgirl
Hi Forest Girl,
Now that I've read all the posts I have more ?'s concerning the Delta 13" 22-580C planer.
I am concerned with it's DURABILITY..... How many yrs can I realistically expect to get from a planer? I don't want to dish out $422(Canaidan) for a machine that's going to give out in 2-3 yrs. Probably better off buying the beefier Dewalt later on. Might cost a bit more but worth the extra money. If I wait long enough the Dewalt planer might go on sale one of these days. Who knows.
Should I keep saving my money till I can afford the 735 Dewalt planer? Assuming you own a planer... What brand name planer do you own?
What would you consider to be Heavy usuage? (putting the planer through its paces) I'd like to know how easily the Delta 22-580c could plane a 4X4 spruce post.
Buying a planer is a big purchase and I don't want to end up replacing it after 3 yrs. Hoping it will last for yrs. But maybe that's being unreasonable.
Wendy
"How many yrs can I realistically expect to get from a planer?" Totally depends on how intensively you use the machine -- how many feet of lumber you run through it. If you're doing weekend and occasional night-time WWing (a hobbyist), then a benchtop planer should serve you well. If you're doing production work, running it every day, many feet of lumber, anything less than a belt-driven stationary model might be less than satisfactory.
I have the Delta 12" model, made before the Shopmaster line was created. It does an excellent job, and I've planed alder, fir, oak, maple, walnut and one super-hard exotic on it. I'm kind to it, keep it clean and don't push it too hard. But I don't use it heavily. As far as the spruce 4x4 goes, should be a piece of cake -- that's alot easier on it than an oak 1x10 :-)
My recollection is that you work in mostly soft woods and aren't doing production work. I'd encourage you to get the Delta, and start setting aside money for that jointer so you can mill your own wood from start to finish. Not that I don't like the DeWalt -- I'd love to have one -- but barring new info from you, I'm not sure you need it, especially at the expense of (a) having to buy S4S stock, and (b) putting the jointer even further off down the road.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Forest Girl,
Thanks for your advise regarding the Delta planer. Im not into production work so I don't need the top of the line planer. Right now I'm mostly working with spruce and pine. But soon I'll be getting into working with hardwoods.
I'm going to start saving up now for a good quality Jointer. Probably be the last big machine I'll need to purchase. I'm one tool away from being able to mill my own lumber. Thought that day would never come.
Are you a weekend woodworker or are you into production work? What Big woodworking machines do you own? If I remember correctly you have a table saw and a LeeValley router table. :) I recently went out and bought a Craftsman bench top router table at Sears. It was origionally $299 and they had it on sale for $149.99 (canadian $'s) So I couldn't resist. (clearance sale) One of these days I'll get around to building a stand for it.
Got a ? for you concerning safety......Would you recommend feather boards for cutting short thick pieces of lumber where the board tends to creep away from the fence near the end of the cut ....just before the board is pushed all the way through the saw blade ( 2x4 PINE) 2 Foot length? I saw some great featherboards on the LeeValley website. $28.00 each. They Look identical to the ones I saw in the latest issue of Workbench magazine.(made in the USA so they've got to be good hey! LOL They suggested using 2 featherboards to rip short thick pieces of lumber.
Wendy
"I'm one tool away from being able to mill my own lumber. Thought that day would never come." Congrats! You'll enjoy it! Actually, except for face-jointing, you can mill your own once you get the planer. There are even creative ways you can face joint without a power-jointer but that's another topic.
"Are you a weekend woodworker or are you into production work?" This time of year I don't even make Weekend WWer status -- too many weeds to pull, but yes that's closer to it than any kind of production. I'm bidding now on some very small stuff that'll require correspondingly small multiples.
What Big woodworking machines do you own? If I remember correctly you have a table saw and a LeeValley router table. :) I have an old (blue) Jet contractors saw; the Lee Valley steel router table top; Grizzly 1019Z bandsaw (14"); Bosch 12" CMS; Jet 6" jointer (bought cooperatively with a friend); Delta 12.5" planer; old Craftsman belt/disc sander; Jet 1100 cannister DC; several routers; and a half-way decent collection of clamps. Throw in a couple of scroll saws, a circular saw and a cordless tool set and that's the bulk of it. Hope you like your Craftsman table. Let us know how it goes!
As far as featherboards go, I strongly recommend the Grip Tite Magnetic Featherboard system. Here's the individual unit as seen in the Lee Valley catalog. They also make a roller attachment that augments the featherboard when placed on the fence, and pulls the stock toward the fence, but I don't see it in Lee Valley. At the very least, get the featherboards. I've used them for 3 years at least now, and love them. Any featherboard that has to fit into your miter track is a waste of $$, IMHO. One that clamps to the table is a hassle, again IMHO. The GripTite will work great for most jobs. Be sure and read the instructions.
My experience so far has been that a featherboard just in front of the blade really helps in getting a clean, safe rip. I always use a push-stick (or more precisely, a push-board, as it's wider than a "stick"). With some stock, I'll clamp a board onto the fence, such that the stock being cut rides right underneath it -- keeps it from creeping up and getting thrown by the blade. Another item that gets great reviews here at Knots is the Gripper system. Takes some getting used to. If you search the archives, you'll find info on it.
Hope you find that all helpful. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks again Forest Girl for the info. I noticed you didn't list a Drill press in your collection of tools. LOL
I'll be picking up my new Delta 13" planer tomorrow. I'm sure my friends think I'm crazy. $ 350 is just too good of a deal on a machine like that. I know I won't regret my decision in the long run.
I don't remember seeing those grip tite magnetic featherboards on the LeeValley site. I will have to log on to their site and check those out. I remember you mentioning Grip Tite featherboards on the forum ages ago. I still have that webpage saved somewhere on my computer.
You'll have to tell me sometime about your creative ways of how to get by without a jointer. I know I could use a straightedge and router bit (trim bit with ball bearing) to joint the edges and endgrains of a board once they've been cut on the table saw.
Hopefully my tool room will be back up and running by the weekend so I can get my 2 end tables put together. Then I have to build a portable table for my router and planer.
Wendy
Oh, yeah, the drill press. I have a small (but not the smallest) Delta bench top DP (ah, the DP300). Actually, I really like it and have used it much more than I thought I would.
PS: You don't "joint" endgrain (99.9% true). The router technique will work fine for edge-jointing. The hardest process to duplicate is face-jointing.
Sheesh! I gotta go, my hubby is being a PITA.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Wanda, I just purchased the Delta 580 for $249 Canadian today.
Where in Canada are you located?
Fiddler, Where did you get the 580 for $249.00 can.? I am in lower mainland B.C.
Walker1
Edited 8/11/2005 10:56 pm ET by Walker1
I got mine at Fisher's Hardware in Vernon. I saw it first for $249 at The Tool Place in Kamloops. I phoned Kelly Fisher and he matched the price so I bought it there - because Fischer's are the "simply the best."
If you are on the lower mainland check with KMS tools. I was told they are about to offer the same deal when the required paper work is completed.
That $249 (Canadian) is pretty amazing -- is that realllllly for the 13" 2-speed Delta 22-580??? I could make money on those! Amazon's price for it, usually about the best, is $368.99 US which translates to $442.03 Canadian.
The 12.5" TP305 runs $199.99US = $239.58CAforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
That is reallllllllly the one!!!!! I haven't unpacked it yet but that is what the box says ...... and perhaps the most important part is that the box is sitting on the floor of my shop! There definately is a God and she has been kind to me.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to KMS tomorrow to see if I can put my name on one.
Cheers. Walker1
let us know if you scored!
Hi Fiddler,
Hey, I should be asking you.. where do you live in Canada? Wow! $100 dollars less. Are you in Western Canada. I live in Eastern Canada. NL
I went to pick up the planer today but the store was closed. They used to be open on Sat. till 1:00pm. But I guess they changed their hours recently.
So what store did you purchase the 22-580 Delta 13inch planer??????
Wendy
I live in Vernon BC and I got mine from Kelly at Fisher's Hardware in Vernon. I believe this is the fourth generation of Fisher's that have owned this store. No matter what you need in terms of tools or service - Fisher's is "simply the best."
Hi forest Girl,
Sorry about the confusion. I meant to type... 400LS Delta planer not 499LS model. (typo)
Ooops, my mistake...You're right the 12 1/2 inch delta planer is a 1 speed model. not 2 speed. I better get my facts straight hey?
Wendy
Can't imagine life in the shop w/o my planer. I'm not familiar with the
TP 499LS, but have owned the 22-560 12-1/2" Delta which later got rebadged the "TP400"....it was very good but did not have the 2 speeds. Now I have the 22-580 and like it alot. The features are better on the 22-580 IMO, but I thought DC was a bit better on the 22-560. I'd grab the 22-580 for that price difference.
http://www.epinions.com/content_55772089988
http://www.epinions.com/content_156115177092
Hi,
Thanks for those links Knot Scott. Don't think I can go wrong purchasing the Delta 22-580C.
Wendy
Hi Wendy,
I have had all 3 planers (the 2 delta and the Dewalt) I needed a tough planer to help with remodeling my house..
Both of the delta planers fell apart. The rollers just did not seem to hold up well, and the gears to advance the stock were always breaking.. I was always big fan of Delta (the old Delta) and the quality that went into the products.. I am sure for the money, and a light woodshop, they are a good tool (I really ran them pretty hard)
For the money (I am not a Dewalt fan whatsoever) The Dewalt has proven itself to be a real work horse.. I guess the one I have is the 735 (the 13") The feature to raise and lower the cutter (on 4 threaded posts) is a great feature.. It has lots of nice extras.. The thing i like best.. On the side of the unit, there is a gear that is designed to break under load (too heavy for the planer to handle) so you destroy the $2 gear not the planer motor .. This is the gear that advances the stock.. There is plenty of power.. You do get a little snipe at the ends.. But if you keep the outfeed well supported, you can eliminate much of this. Holestly after owning all.. yea the Dewalt will cost a few hundred more, but I my experience with mine.. I can see it outlasting 2-3 of the Dewalt planers.. so It really is the better buy..
As the others have said.. A planer and jointer are essential.. Your work is only as good at the quality of tools you buy.. and when you have an item like a planer that every project will have a basis on.. spend a little extra and get the better piece.. you will be much happier in the long run..
~Rob
I would echo the Dewalt 735 recommendation. I had the Delta and while a fine tool , it gave out in less than a year of pretty hard work. Got the Dewalt and the features are well worth the money. It gives you very smooth cuts and I don't see anymore snipe with it than any other planer; you just have to adjust the tables properly.
It comes down to: would you rather do quality work at a fast pace, or at a slow pace?
Delta professional tools like others, are designed for day in day out use with consistant quality. If you have more time than money, the low budget option suits you best.
You could even forego the tablesaw and invest in good handsaws and all hand tools if you want. But I think the primary tool in any wodshop is a quality tablesaw, so if you see yourself staying with this pastime, buy the best you can afford.
I own both the Rigid and the Dewalt planers. For my money, the Rigid is the beefier of the two..although both are good machines.
Good luck!
lp
Hi Wanda,
Would this one do the job for ya?
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
LOL,
Would be a dream to own a magnificent machine like that. I had the chance once to use a HUGE General planer. Those machines can plane just about anything you throw at them. I used it to plane the legs on my tool bench. (4X4 spruce posts). No problem whatsoever.
Wanda
"Those machines can plane just about anything you throw at them"
Hi Wanda,
You have a magnificent gift for understatement: we had a student a few semesters ago who misread the depth-of-cut indicator and shoved a piece of 4/4 rough-sawn kiln-dried white oak, about a foot wide, into the thickness planer shown in the photograph; however, the planer was set for a final thickness of 5/8"!
Instructors came running because of the unusually loud noise emanating from that poor machine, but the stock came out the other end none the worse for wear, and 5/8" thick; unfortunately, she wanted to end up with something a little over 3/4" thick!
Despite the fact that the machine showed no obvious signs of damage or miscalibration, we still encourage students to take somewhat lighter cuts.
Good luck in your search for a planer and jointer,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Wanda, Get a very good hand plane aannd save a pocket of money.
swampfox
The Delta is a fine machine. I used the original 12" Delta portable planer for years as a professional woodworker. I beat the hell out of the machine but it still runs fine - it only was single speed and there is some snipe but you just plan for that. You need a jointer and planer for any type of work with hardwoods - you need to be able to take rough lumber and surface it to flat true boards. It's a waste to purchase any wood for a project surfaced four sides since there is usually a variation in thickness and the boards arent flat - both things will ruin your project in the end. I've since upgraded to a 3hp Grizzly 15" Planer - its alot smoother than the little portable but I still use the Delta on job-sites. I figure I've planed 1000s of bf of cherry, poplar, and maple on the Delta and only have changed the blades four times in many more years. For $200 (I paid $400 or 500 at the time it came out) thats not bad.
Their truly a big diffence between the two the added 2nd speed is a perfect smooth sanded finish. From rough stock to a fine smooth finish i think the 325 dollar investment is worth it. hope this help knothead
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