Yes, I know this has been discussed, BUT both Rockler and Woodcraft are about to start holiday sales so I’d like everyone’s opinion:
IF you had to buy all new clamps what would you buy?
Constraints:
- Assume no existing clamps
- Budget under $1k
- type of work is mostly cabinets
I’ve heard Jet is a bit better than Bessey, and that Jorgensen (orange) are what you should buy just because the others increase in price doesn’t reflect an accompanying increase in capability.
Thoughts?
Replies
brad was askin....
IF you had to buy all new clamps what would you buy?
Constraints:
I'd start with 3/4" pipe clamps.
Why? First off is cost. Yu can get jorgenson clamp heads around the 10-12 dollar mark, 3/4" black pipe in whatever length you want. don't get 48" lengths, get 60". have some threaded both ends and pick up a few couplings, and you to (nominal 10' clamps) Grab some leather and make yer own pads.
c-clamps is good if yer into refinishing, Cheap junk should be avoided, but oftentimes used tool stores have scads of smaller c-clamps at quite reasonable prices. Avoid the ones with evidence of being used by welders.....And keep yer eye open for deep throat ones. 60 bucks should get you well on yer way. Buying clean used American brand name clamps is a real good way to stretch yer budget maximally
that'll get you started, but you are well aware that you will NEVER have enuf clamps.
One refinishing job, I had over 50 c-clamps going on each of three days.
Sometimes with cabinets, I can have 10 clamps on each box, or maybe with a twenty foot bent lamination, with a clamp every 4". You do the math. (hey 12" lengths of black pipe ain't that expensive....)
Try and keep as much of that 1k$ budget unspent, cause sure as shooting, it will get sucked up eventually.
There's edging clamps, picture framing clamps, vacuum clamps, web clamps ,etc, No worries bout spending the budget. It will happen.
My grandad made his own clamps, and built more houses than you can shake a stick at.
Eric
question: since I've run a lot of black pipe in residential construction I know it is "greasy" ... since I inherited my current pipe clamps I don't know how they go from "new and slick" to "old and clean". Should I just grab a few handfulls of sawdust from the cyclone and rub 'em down?
BTW, thanks to all for the replies ... it is very, very helpful. I put the $1k mark down for no other reason that good tools are a good investment and if I am willing to drop $40 on a thingie to trim edge banding quickly and efficiently I may as well brace myself to bite the bullet on clamps.
I've used all three brands, and am partial to the Jets, but it's really an individual preference. Last year, I traded my Bessey's to a professional WWer for his Jets.
Why I like the Jets: The jaws stay closed where you put them, avoiding concussion when you hang them on the clamp storage rack. Plenty of clamping power and as square as other 2 brands. They have inches stamped on the bar so it's quicker to judge where to place the moveable jaw. Bench dog adapters included. At $99 for the cabinetmaker's set (4 clamps, little "igloo" holders), nothing could keep me away.
The downside as I get older is that they are heavy dudes, but it's not that big a deal, really.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/13/2009 10:46 pm by forestgirl
Mine were accumulated over many, many years.
I have a couple of dozen 3" C-clamps that get a lot of use and 6 deep throat C-clamps. I have a variety of Jorgensen bar clamps, but they see less use now that I have Bessey Clamps and Jet Clamps. The Jet's and Bessey clamps do a terrific job of keeping panels and doors flat during glue up. I got the Bessey's first, but I like the Jet clamps better because of the lever.
I put this up a while ago and am of the same still so . . .
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=45540.9
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Brad:
I tend to drop long clamps a lot during glue up, just clumsy I guess. I have never broken a 3/4" pipe clamp in 35+ years of hard use. My own hesitation with the new parallel clamps is that they are mostly plastic and can't take any abuse. Still there are applications where the parallel clamps are the best thing going. So I would suggest a mix. Bars clamps where their durability is an asset and parallel clamps for where you need some finesse. There was a recent review of parallel clamps in the Winter Tools & Shops issue of FWW. Jet and Jorgensen were each awarded best overall. Rockler has be having some recent sales on the Jet clamps that might be worth checking out.
gdblake
Fine Woodworking, in their recent Tools and Shops mag recommends Jet and Jorgensen as tops of the parallel clamps.
Of the C clamps, I think most any brands can be good. I have a couple Sears that are real handy but don't try to put too much pressure on them.
I have a stack of Jorgensen pipe clamps that I started collecting more than forty years ago that ranged in price of $1.97 a piece to - well you know what price they are now. They are good but the Rocklers look like they might have an advantage over them. Also have a couple pair of Sears pipe clamps but I do not recommend them unless you have a passion of releasing them with a claw hammer each time you use them.
Edited 11/13/2009 11:51 pm ET by Tinkerer3
Brad,
I too make mostly cabinets. As far as the parrallel clamps go I like the new Bessey Revo's the best for medium duty clamping or where a parallel clamp is needed as they are easier to adjust and the Jaws are already parallel. The Jets tend to snag slightly along the bar even with their new lever and the jaws need a little sanding to get them exactly parallel so they won't mar your finish. They tend to be bowed out at the edges. Having said that I bought several sets of the Jets around this time last year at the Rockler sale and was able to get them much less than the Besseys. I also have a good number of the Bessey tradesman clamps that I also use as they are lighter and clamp well for light duty applications. I also have a set of eight Jorgesen pony clamps that are the best and most reliable for heavy duty apps.
So in summary: Light duty; Bessy tradesman. Medium duty or where parallel is needed; Bessey Revo or Jet. Heavy duty; Jorgensen Pony pipe clamps.
Be sure you use the lesser expensive black pipe for your pipe clamps as the galvanized pipe tends to be harder, occasionally causing the clamps to slip. I split small pieces of 3/4" PVC pipe down their length and wrap them around the black pipe to keep them above the clamped surface so as to avoid any possible black staining from the pipe.
I use my Bessy Tradesman very frequently... I have many medium duty in various sizes, a few heavy duty and a few small light duty clamps. I also really like the mini ones for holding jigs together or to set up a quick stop on a fence.
A couple of medium sized wooden handscrews (mine are Jorgenson but many others exist and are similar).
A few mid sized Irwin quick grips come in very handy.
For larger projects pipe clamps give you the most pressure and versatility for the money. though I do like the parallel jaw clamps for ease of keeping things in alignment (they are very spendy though).
I'm right there with you on that clamp selection. Lot's of use for the six inch tradesman's and yes I do have a couple of wood parallel clamps and a whole bunch of Irwin quick clamps I got from a wholesaler in my area. I most use those for clamping stuff to the bench like my pocket hole set up etc or clamping things I'm routing on the saw horses. Really can't have to many clamps! I always say I'm finished buying clamps and then I seem to find an application for one I don't have. I just purchased a couple of Kreg table mount clamps for use on my drill press table and as an additional clamp on the carriage(Wagon) of my sliding table saw. Woodcraft had them on sale for twenty bucks for the kit. All I need is the clamp but I don't think you can buy those separate and not at that price.
looks like I should buy
20 pony clamps and pipe in 26", 40", and 60"
two sets of the Jet 4 packs
an armload of c clamps
I dig the idea of wrapping split plastic tubing over the black pipe.
I noticed that no one came out as a huge fan of the Jorgenson or Jet bar clamps... Rockler is clearing out "speed bar clamps" right now.
Question: Pony clamps versus Rockler "sure foot Plus"? seem about the same price point.
again, thanks in advance.
Don't know what you plan on doing, but I'd be hard-pressed to use 20 clamps at once. I mention this only because it is fairly easy to move the pony clamps to whatever length pipe you need, and pipe is cheaper than clamps. Free up some $$ for something else. Of course, over the years I have gotten lazy and all my pipe sections have clamps on them, but I didn't start there.
FYI - for 3/4" pipe, I think you'll need 1" ID pvc to match the 3/4" ID pipe. Like the other comment, I have two pieces @ 1" long on each pipe clamp - just move them where needed to span glue line. Cut to 1" sections on bandsaw, then cut out like a 30* section, and they easily snap on + off. Also - screw 2 more pieces PVC to the wall, and the pipe clamp just snaps in place for storage
BTW - sorry to be late to the game, but I bought 4 of the 12" discounted Gross Stabil from Rockler. They got here, I loved 'em, bought 4 of the 24". Seriously heavy-duty, and I didn't have any F-style with a throat that deep. Really good deal, IMO.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=22191&filter=gross%20stabil
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Brad, you might not want to go out and buy all that pipe clamp stuff and C-clamps at one time, but rather wait and buy them as you need them. You may find you don't need quite so many, and the pipe clamps can be a pain to store when you don't use them. C-clamps, sorta the same thing.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I would not trade my old Record sash clamps for any of the new ones, the same goes for my Record “F” style clamps, great value and a real shame they are no longer made.
Brad,
I work part time at the local Woodcraft store, and people come in all the time to buy what is on sale. Just for the conversation of it, I often ask them what project they are going to use this tool on. Very frequently the answer is "I am buying it because it is on sale." Many of them have indicated that they have accumulated a lot of tools on sale that they have never used, but may someday.
I recommend NEVER BUYING ON SALE unless the item you need RIGHT NOW happens to be on sale. Most people waste a lot of money by buying on sale.
I recommend that you buy what you "need" now and keep doing that. At the end of ten years, you will have accumulated tools that you actually use, rather than ones that you bought because you fell for the lure of the management weenies who spend all of their time figuring out how to separate you from your money. DON"T LET THEM WIN. You should take charge of your own life, and buy what you need when you need it, but only if you can affort it.
You already got lots of "normal" advice, so I thought I would throw in my own off-beat way of thinking.
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel, although your advice is sound, you're not contributing to the economic recovery. People need to go into debt buying sale items, with the expectation that the items will go up in price and they can resell at a profit. Oh, wait. That's what got us into this mess in the first place. ;-)
Ralph,
We need you here in Washington, DC so you can help lead the country through this economic mess. You seem to be able to see through the cloud of BS. I used to be a "sexist" who thought that women were very subject to the lure of the "sale", but that men didn't fall for such stuff. Wow! I was wrong. Big time! Sales are an equal-opportunity method of extracting money from humans. Folks need to stop and think "Why did the company put this thing on sale?" There are many answers.One is that they cannot sell it at the higher price any more.
Another is that they are phasing it out.
They may be replacing it with something else.Of course, one can go deeper into this in a psychological sense. Remember the old saw about "Make noise East. Attack West." Maybe the company is trying to make you focus on price more than on relevance. I wonder why they would like to do that?????? Ha ha ha.Last year, I went to an aerospace conference in Big Sky, Montana, and a guy gave a dinner talk on strategies companies use to get you to buy. He went into detail on his research into things like "the recurring sale", which Sears has been doing for decades, and which Woodcraft uses, as do many others. I can't remember all the details, but the answer lies in keeping folks off balance, so that they are more easily influenced. Back in the 1960s, I used to keep track of when Sears put some tools on sale and waited til the next time it went on sale to get it. Now I stay away from Sears because they still try to sell things that are worth $75 for $125 most of the time, and making you think you got a bargain when you get it for the price of $75. THis is a fun topic.
Enjoy.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Ralph & Mel,I listened to Graham Blackburn in the Hand Tool Rodeo at the Portland Woodworking show talk about hand planes and sharpening. He recommended that everyone go out and get a set of the ceramic stones like the ones he had with him to help stimulate the economy. He went on to say that they only reason he uses ceramics at the show was because they don't need to be soaked in water, and therefore have no risk of cracking when they are shipped from show to show.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Sounds like a great idea. Where do we send the request for the associated stimulus funding? ;-)
Chris,
I learned about ceramic stones when I started chip carving, and I bought a set of Wayne Barton's chip carving knives and his set of ceramic stones. The stones work beautifully on chip carving knives.There is a guy in Virginia who is a top notch period furniture maker, specializing in Chippendale. He just uses the two big Spyderco ceramic stones. His name is George Slack. Interesting guy. His latest "course" in making a Chippendale Highboy costs around $8000 for tuition and lumber. After seeing what George does, I got a pair of the large Spydercos, and use them for my carving tools. I havent tried them on plane blades. I use the waterstones for those. I will try the plane blades on the ceramic stones and see what happens.Have fun. It must be starting to get cold up there in Canada.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
In line with the "Clamp Thread", here is about half of my "stable". Also in the shop are about twenty "C" clamps, including three Vise-grip "C-clamp"s;" Although I have the right to remain stupid, I try not to abuse that right"
Dog,
You have a nice "half stable" of clamps. I am a fan of pipe clamps. As someone pointed out, they are strong, do the job and they don't break. I also have a bunch of different types of clamps, which I started acquiring back in 1968.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel - I agree with you except for the topic of clamps.
No one EVER died with too many clamps. It is not a question of need. It is simply a question of clamps.
Oh - wait - add Forrest TS blades to my list.
Maybe LN planes, too.
But that's it - clamps, Forrest blades, and LN planes. And Starrett rules, straightedges, squares, and calipers of course - I figured that was understood.
That is definitley the list, but you are correct on everything else.
Spot,
Yup, I agree with you on clamps, Forrest blades and LN tools.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
"Mel - I agree with you except for the topic of clamps." Amen, Spot. Especially when Bessey and Jorgensen had their big anniversary sales a few years ago. The clamps were hugely discounted. The Jorgensen's sold out on-line in just a few minutes. It was the only way I could afford to buy the big K-body clamps at the time.
And, when the Jets were introduced, there was an exceptional package offer. I've never regretted jumping on those three sales.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Don't forget to get some of these aluminum jobbies from Highland Hardware. They have bending issues but are lightweight workhorses.
Brad,
As Sapwood indicated.Universals are good clamps and put more than enough pressure without bending. If you bend those clamps, IMO, your just flat out doin sumpin wrong. I also have a ton of 40s, 36s and 24 Besseys and long black pipes(4', 6' and 8') with Jorgys, 4 bessey corners and 8 3 point edge clamps and a bunch others that I mention here in a different post.
People here tend to be real hot on the handled Bessey style clamps but I really wouldn't ignore rather reasonable aluminum "Universal" brand crankers.BB
Hey Brad,
I bought a bunch of handscrew clamps earlier in the year. Included are some pictures of the Universal aluminum clamps that have been mentioned here, and also some cam clamps.
Some of the small handscrews (~3" and 4"?) have been very handy. I've pretty much switched to these where before I used a short bar clamps.
Overall, I can't believe how much I use all of these. Not all at once, but I've had 6 and 8 on at time. When they're cranked, they're cranked! Also the clamoing angles of the jaws is adjustable by playing with the screws. That helps pinpoint the exact place where most pressure is desired.
I'm getting pretty handy adjusting them too.
I love clamps.
(Now if I can just... get... these... pictures uploaded)
((By jove, I've done it!))
Edit: Doh! I almost did it. Try again.
--Jonnieboy
Edited 11/19/2009 1:28 am ET by jonnieboy
Jonnieboy,
I've noticed this in recent posts of yours, you sure don't know how to upload pictures.
Oh shut-up.
--Jonnieboy
Once you use some of the "Universal" (brand) alum. clamps, you'll buy and use them more and more. Very lightweight and handy! If you do your fitting correctly they'll provide all the clamping pressure you need. Plus they're pretty cheap!
Tony,
That's good to know about the Universals. I haven't had call to use them yet.
--Jonnieboy
Brad,
there are a few hundred million folks out in China who would argue that if you cut your joinery well you don't need glue and you will not have to worry too much about clamps either.
Chris
Chris Scholz
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
Galoot-Tools
Thanks for all of the great advice ... as fate would have it a local is getting out of full time cabinet work and I scored 22 pony pipe clamps ranging in length from 30" to 10' (only one of those monsters) and some extra pipe. Bought them for $5 a clamp. He threw in 4 strap clamps as well since I wouldn't buy the whole box of them from him.
Saw that HF has the aluninum jobbies on sale for $8 for 36". If there are any of those left I'll pick up 12 and call it good. I've got 40' of uppers and lowers to build this holiday season (entertainment room remodel) along with 20' of book cases. I think they'll all get used.
Brad -- I buy the galvanized pipe instead of black, wiping it down with mineral spirits cleans off a lot of the crud and the galvanized is less prone to rust.
I also buy 24 and 36 inch lengths, if I need a longer clamp, I use a threaded union to put two of them together.
Have a great Thanksgiving,
Brad,
"question: since I've run a lot of black pipe in residential construction I know it is "greasy" ... since I inherited my current pipe clamps I don't know how they go from "new and slick" to "old and clean". Should I just grab a few handfulls of sawdust from the cyclone and rub 'em down?"
(black pipe) I just clean them once with mineral spirits followed by acetone, put a two coats of tung oil and they're good to go. Many have been in use for over 40 years and never once had any rust marks or stain.
BB
"an armload of C-clamps"
Go ahead and pick them up when you see them at yard sales, but if you want to spend some money on clamps for work in the C-clamp size range, do a google search for "Kant-Twist" brand clamps. 40% more clamping force than comparably sized C-clamps, copper jaws for less marring of your wood, and the jaws always stay parallel. It's maddening to grab a C-clamp out of a drawer and find it has a twisted frame.
I use mine every day at work, and I swear by them. The other guys in the shop can borrow my C-clamps, but NOBODY touches my Kant-Twists.
For the sake of propriety I'll just say: I have no affiliation with the Kant-Twist company, just a satisfied customer.
Thanks to all for your advice and opinions. I've been mercilessly combing through Craigslist in this area and have had quite a bit of luck - 22 ponies, 24 Jorgie light duty, a stack of HF aluminum clamps on sale, and a stack of 6" C clamps. All in all I have less than $320 into the project, and have begun to put them to good use.
I threw together a prototype clamp rack off of someone's pic here - we'll see how it works out, then I'll do it up proper in Oak. Until then, thanks to all!
Sorry to say this, but you made that lovely rack too small. You do, afterall, need more clamps. ;-)
hey, it's a prototype! You always make prototypes 1/4 scale, right?
Exactly. 8^)
Hello , I a big fan of the Rockler sure foot bar clamps , I have several of my dads older pony bar clamps , but the Rocklers are the ones I go to first . As others have indicated you can use different length pipe ( which is what I do ) Gary
FHB recent issue of Tools & Shops did a test of parallel clamps and the Jorgs & Jets came out on top. Jorgs are at the HD & very available.
I have almost all Jorgs for light, medium & 3/4 pipe. They've always served me well.
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