Replies

1. 
   jvs | May 15, 2003 11:28pm | #1

   Just to add to the decision set, you might also want to conside the Grizzly saws.  I have a friend that loves his 16" Grizzly, but have no personal experience with them.  On the other hand, unless one of the warehouse locations are drivable for you, shipping might wipe out most the price advantage, and all three of what you have mentioned have gotten excellent published reviews.

   /jvs

2. 
   10fingers | May 16, 2003 01:39am | #2

   Hello Tzach,

   I have had a laguna LT16 for about 2 1/2 years now.   I really like the performance.  I upgraded from a delta 14" clone.   I even bought the guides for the cool blocks on the LT16 to use 1/16" blades for making puzzles.  I would suggest buying the ceramic guides instead of the european ones.

   The laguna has not had any problems ever.  The shipping costs more than some of the others, but it includes unloading it off the truck onto the ground with a lift.   Supposedly, the others will only put it on the dock but will not set it off the truck on the ground.   These suckers are heavy.   I wouldn't want to try to wrestle a bandsaw off the rear of a truck.

   The LT16 comes with a 1 1/2 horse motor.   I have sliced 12" mesquite with it and did not bog the motor down.   The 130" blades are not that common at places like woodcraft.   I but bulk rolls of blades and silver solder them.   I lucked out on ebay and got two carbide blades for about $30.00 each.   They were too long, but  I cut them down.    Yipee!

    Call Laguna and ask for Torben.  He talks to customers to answer questions or at least he did for me.

   hope this helps in your decision,

   Chuck

3. 
   migraine | May 16, 2003 04:27am | #3

   My personal opinion of Laguna Tools is that there salemen should be selling used cars.  But, remember that is MY opinion.  I don't live to far from there store in Calif.  Check Ebay, I think I saw a 18" band saw there yesterday.

1. 
   BG | May 25, 2003 12:04am | #14

   Tach,

   I was just over at Woodcraft and they have last years Jet model still at the $799 price.  I believe it is an 18" with the euro bearings.  Several here bought the machine last year..and then the price disappered.  I would have bought one if I could have found one...but i was two months too late...

   Edited 5/24/2003 5:05:02 PM ET by BG

4. 
   ronweaver | May 16, 2003 10:04am | #4

   I have spent over a month researching 16" to 18" bandsaws as an upgrade to my Delta 14".  The chief reason for the upgrade is resaw capacity.  I considered a riser block but would also have to change to a larger motor.  I needed somthing that would resaw 12" thick exotics, both thick and thin "veneer" with as little waste as possible. My business is building high end custom stereo and home theater loudspeakers.  Every time in the past that I have compromised on tools, I have been disappointed.  I looked at the Jet and Grizzly 18's but after comparing them to the Italian saws, they come across as exactly what they are-less expensive knockoffs.  The frontrunners were Agazzani, MiniMax and Laguna/Bridgewood.  The Agazzani is quite a bit more expensive and has a smaller thickness capacity for a given width/wheel diameter.  That narrowed my choices to the MiniMax and Laguna.  (The Bridgewood and Felder saws are virtually the same, except: Brigewood has replaced the Italian motor with a US motor do to overheating problems, and Felder uses their German motor, for the same reason).  I talked to the sales people at Laguna and MiniMax several times.  Both claimed to have "the best saw on the market, hands down". I got both of their videotapes and was somewhat more impressed with the Laguna demo, done by their President Toben Helshoj.  The MiniMax video is done by Mark Duginske.  However, some of the claims by MiniMax- heavier wheels, cast iron upper guide holder, and cooler running motor made sense to me. (I am a retired Mechanical Design Engineer.  I finally decided to wait a couple of weeks and go to the Sacramento, CA Woodworking show, where both manufacturers would have their machines for me to look at, touch, and try.  I took a 12" wide 4 foot long piece of 4/4 Bubinga so I could see how both saws did.  I spent about an hour in total with each Laguna (Torben) and  the MiniMax rep (Dain Kirkpatrick) walking back and forth between booths- fortunately they were on the same aisle.  After the initial impression that the Laguna paint job and general finish was a little nicer than the MiniMax, I began to see the real differences.  The bottom line- the MiniMax is a better machine by quite a bit.  It weighs 60 lbs more:the wheels are significantly heavier (more inertia, smoother running).  The column has thicker steel with more sections, so the part of the saw that withstands the considerable blade tension is significantly stiffer.  The upper blade guide (a heavy steel rod on both saws) is housed and guided by a large cast iron assemble on the MiniMax and a rather light steel bracket on the Laguna.  The blade guide locking screw bears on the shaft through a large key/gib on the MiniMax, but the Laguna uses a plain bolt not even ground on the end bearing directly on the guide shaft.  When I pointed this easily correctable situation to Torben, he said "If you buy our saw, you can grind it down yourself".   The Minimax top and bottom covers open separately with interlock switches on both to prevent inadvertant powering of the machine, the Laguna's covers are joined together with a thin metal strip, requiring both top and bottom covers to swing as one.  Perhaps the most dramatic contrast in operation was the footbrake, which when activated on both shuts the motor off and stops the wheels.  The MiniMax stopped the wheels in what seemed to be less than one revolution of the wheel with less than finger (or single toe) pressure.  The Laguna brake required an estimated 20 lbs pressure and took about 5 times as long to stop. It was an amazing difference.  There were several more items that I thought were notable on the MiniMax- the cast iron fence was rigid and easily adjustable for blade drift (the Laguna fence bar was nicer and the aluminum fence/cast iron bracket moved more smoothly and had a high/low position).  The  MM dust chute took most of the dust out before it dropped onto the lower wheel. The Laguna's was at the bottom rear, allowing all of the dust to drop right onto the wheel-tire/blade interface (their wheel brush was stiffer/more effective though!)  Upper blade guide adjustment for parallelism is critical to maintain guide to blade clearance as the guide is raised or lowered for thick or thin stock.  The MM is adjusted from the outside with four screws, the Laguna requires what appears to be difficult access from inside the wheel housing.   

   The Bubinga?  I had MiniMax run it first.  I expected to see a little concern as I handed the board to Dain- no tweaking, no high fence (the standard fence is about 4" high). He grabbed the board, set the fence to take off my requested 1/8" slice, and turned on the saw.  It sliced through the board quickly with not the slightest hitch.  Next to Laguna, I handed the board to Torben.  He looked at it and said "What's this?"  I told him that I would like him to take a 1/8" slice off of it.  He seemed a little reluctant (possibly my imagination) and set the fence and started the cut.  Going about half the MM speed, the motor bogged down after the first few inches.  Torben stopped and said something about the belt slipping and went around to the motor side.  While he was checking the motor, he asked me to continue the cut.  I couldn't see what he was doing, but found out later from my buddy who was watching him that he was feeling the motor to see how hot it was.  He played around with the belt tension for several minutes (to let the motor cool?)  and then finished the cut, again going fairly slowly.  The slice was somewhat uneven in places, but OK generally-not surprising for the stops and starts.

   Sorry for such a long and rambling note, but I have searched the message boards and not seen a head to head comparison like this, so maybe this will help others too.  BTW, I kept the ceramic Laguna blade guides out of the equation/decision.  The Laguna 16HD is easily $200 more that the MM16, so even if I decided that Laguna guides were an improvement over the standard Euroguides on the MM, I could purchase them separately.  I am still not sure if they are an improvement.  I have heard pro and con from users.  The MM offers slightly more resaw capacity, heavier, sturdier, for less money.  It was an easy choice.

   Why is Laguna the largest selling bandsaw?  Simple. Advertising, advertising, advertising.  Both sales people were polite and friendly but I must say, Laguna was less than truthful when they made direct comparisons of their saw to MiniMax's.  I had to correct them several times as they tried to persuade me why there saw was better.  MM rep refused to disparage Laguna, saying check the message boards.  See what others say.  I did end up calling a customer (prior to the show) who had bought a Laguna and six months later traded it in for a Minimax.  His comments were confirmed by my experience at the show.

   My MM16 bandsaw will be here in two weeks.  If I have good or bad experiences, I will share them, since I was so bold in this post.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/16/2003 3:18:49 AM ET by RonW.

1. 
   jdbutler999 | May 16, 2003 05:51pm | #5

   You should also consider the Bridgewood PBS series from the Wilke Machinery Company.  I bought one last year and am very pleased and I did a lot of research prior to my purchase. 

2. 
   ownersrep | May 16, 2003 06:10pm | #6

   Ron,

   Thank you.  I am looking to purchase this summer and had pretty much made the same decision.  I've heard no one complain about about the MM but Laguna has had service complaints.  I haven't had the chance for side by side comparison and appreciate your post.

   Jim

3. 
   nicobie | May 16, 2003 08:07pm | #7

   Excellent post Ron.

   I have owned a Minimax 16 for awhile now. I chose MM for all of the same reasons you did and haven't been disappointed yet.

   I think Minimax is a good company with great service after the sale.

   As for Laguna? They might be better off if they changed their sales approach a bit.The proof is in the puddin'

4. 
   tzach | May 16, 2003 10:13pm | #8

   Ron thanks for your post.  I have called Laguna and requested a video...  looks like I will do the same with MiniMax.  Your comparisons were just what  I was looking for.  Sounds like a no brainer with the MM especially since I can help out an American company at the same time.  Thanks again to everyone.  Troy

5. 
   user-46826 | May 16, 2003 10:55pm | #9

   Great message.  Just the type of report I was hoping for.  What did you pay for your machine?

1. 
   ronweaver | May 19, 2003 08:06pm | #10

   Sorry for the late reply.  The standard price for the MM16 is $1795.  They have a Woodworking show special that includes the mobility kit and several blades for $1695.  Shipping to CA was $200, but no tax.  I actually had to go to the show and make the purchase there to get the price, which confirmed my thought that MiniMax is a straight shooting outfit and not a bunch of "wheelerdealers".

6. 
   user-135888 | May 31, 2003 10:41am | #15

   Hi

   I'm really annoyned by your message?  Cause it's sounds like balony. not good balony either.

   Now you say those awsome brakes stopped that bandsaw  IN ONE WHEEL TURN!!!!! WOW. You know,??? with all that inertia. I didn't know they made power brakes for bandsaws. 

   THE BANDSAW STOPPED IN ONE WHEEL TURN, WOW!!!!!

   Also the thick cast metal that covers the mm is like a telescope it has clearences and like a telescope, the thing will flex and is supproted only by the bar. like the T-Style Fence a box does not flex, in arguement.

   Now I bought my saw 2 years ago and looked into buying it for almost a year before I got it. I got mine at the AFWS in ahahiem two years ago. I paid $1084 after tax.

   BUBINGA, THEY DON"T BRING IT. Maybe there all whips but they only (ALL of Them)  bring Hard Maple. They all seem to do OK.

   I saw them resaw maple on a lt16 (laguna) and it was like 8 feet long, the real problem was it was thin and they had problems controlling it. LT16 have two dustports, most lagunas do. Not so with mm.

   I also saw a mm demo, but they had no dust collection and they really kick up alot of dust (Pomona, CA) I left, they were doing ok.

   Also you story about the lagunna people trying to do all this stuff behind your back, and "oh" your friend saw somebody feeling the motor??? worried???? HOW FAR WAY WERE YOU!!! TWO FEET.  YOU SOUND LIKE A SALESMEN... TALL CLAIMS, THAT UNDER SCRUTINY SOUND TALL (Example"THE BANDSAW STOPPED IN ONE WHEEL REVOLUTION").

   Now, I have a laguna and it's a good saw. I think the agazzi the best (Blade short comings and all). The minimax and the agazzi are both the close to the same price so that's wrong too. the s45 has a spoked upper wheel so I know your not talking about that saw, it only resaws 10"anyway. Also for example, imagine changing the way the biesmyer's fence was oriented to it's  mounting bar and the long part of the rectangle was verticle?? does that sound logical? that's the logic of the mm.

   Next, Your talking about a 16HD? I have a 1.5 hp(lt16) and there putting a 8ft pieces of hard maple through it and it did fine.

                                      FOUR FEET OF BUBINGA, DID THERE MOTOR IN, HUH.                 

                                       I don't buy that either, the 16HD has a 3HP motor

              OK, I want to say this, They are all REALLY GOOD saws. REALLY

   I got me somthing that save me money. I did well, two years out. and I been comparing them ever since.

   THEY changed the doors on the lt16 since I got mine and I don't think I saw a blade tension gauge. I never accidentally started my saw. with my dust collecter on though I can't hear my bandsaw.

   Just my two scents.

   john

1. 
   nicobie | May 31, 2003 07:34pm | #16

   Hi John,

   I don't know where you got the info about the MM16 having no dust collection. My Minimax saw has a 4" port that empties a chamber that is under the lower guides. This chamber is sealed from the lower wheel area so the saw doesn't need two ports. This obviously saves  time and the money involved for extra fittings and hose hooking up to your DC.

   As I understand it, your LT16 was made by Meber and has been discontinued by Laguna. Not wanting to sound mean, but I hope you never need parts for it.

   By the way the MM has a 3.6 hp motor not a 3 hp as you mentioned and the brake works as advertised.The proof is in the puddin'

1. 
   user-135888 | May 31, 2003 07:59pm | #17

   I'll try to explain about the no dust collection: THEY (MINIMAX) HAD NO DUST COLLECTION "AT THE SHOW" DON"T KNOW WHY, DIDN"T ASK.

   ABOUT MY SAW PARTS. THE SAW IS STILL MADE(MEBER.COM)( model P400). SO PARTS ARE NOT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. Just order them.

   HORSE POWER: MOST OF THE MOTORS ARE EUROPEAN AND RATINGS ARE NOT ROUNDED, I KNOW

   STICK TO YOUR GUNS DUDE. You got a good saw.

   LIKE I SAID THERE ALL GOOD SAWS.

   john

   Edited 5/31/2003 1:12:09 PM ET by john

1. 
   nicobie | Jun 01, 2003 02:44am | #18

   Hey doood, are U planing to order parts for a discontinued saw from Laguna?

   Hehe...

   Ask me if they care.  Duh...........

   If you aren't buyin' U're squat.

   The proof is in the puddin'

5. 
   alanplanesaw | May 19, 2003 08:19pm | #11

   Although I bought a 20" saw, I did a fair amount of comparison shopping at woodworking shows, etc., and I decided to go with Bridgewood.   Have since that time bought a couple other Bridgewood large tools and am pleased with performance and service. 

   Alan

1. 
   ABenker | May 19, 2003 09:11pm | #12

   I swear that about two years ago when I bought my Laguna 16" SEC bandsaw a salesman named Dain Kirkpatrick sold it to me. Ron did he mention if he used to work for Laguna?

   As far as my experience the 2-1/2hp motor on the Laguna has been plenty for resawing maple cherry and oak and I have been pleased with the overall performance of the machine.

6. 
   SawdustRay | May 24, 2003 01:27am | #13

   I just recently bought my first bandsaw after much research.  Got the Jet 16" steel frame at a woodworker's show.  Absolutely love it.  The bottom guides are a hassle to adjust.  No complants anywhere else.

   I would love to have the MiniMax 16".  It's a different class of machine and a different price range as well - about twice as much.  Buy it if you can but you can make beautiful stuff with the Jet as well.