Where to find brass to make a hammer?
Hello, I’m thinking about making a hammer to set my wooden planes similar to the one that lee valley and other companies sell:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=46540cat=1,41182
I’d like to make it with a brass end for setting the iron and have an insert of soft wood in one end for tapping the wooden plane body. I used a friends who bought his from lee valley but there are a few things I would like to change which is why I’d like to make my own.
Question:
Can anyone recommend an online source where I can find a small quantity of brass to use for this project? (I have no clue what to google) Ideally, someone who could sell me a block 4″x2″x2″ block would be great though I may be too optimistic about finding someone to do that…
Thanks for the advice!
Replies
Try this:
http://www.speedymetals.com/default.aspx
Or this: http://www.metalsdepot.com/products/brass2.phtml?page=square&LimAcc=$LimAcc
Jim
Do you have access to some old brass faucets, a friend with a acetylene torch, a ladle and something to use for a mold? If so, melt down the faucets and pour into the mold and you have your rough product. I have probably a hundred old faucets, copper, and aluminum but since I don't need that hammer I take it all to the recyclers. Good spending money.
....."####4"x2"x2" block".
I can't tell you where to get brass because I am not in USA. But I can tell you that brass bar that size is very heavy for a plane setting hammer and you will probably get a shock at the price too.....
Again, I am not sure what design you have in mind, but if you used round bar instead of square stuff you may find it easier to manage.
For your interest I made the hammer pictured, which I imagine would do for plane setting, but I find it useful for many things. The haft is a pin punch....
Well Philip makes beautiful mallets. He makes beautiful tools, period.
Here is an alternative.
I bought a plane setting hammer from Dave Anderson (Chester Tool Works). It is well made and works wonderfully. I can recommend it highly. But it costs $52 USD and was a little reward at the time. Others will consider this too expensive.
I got to thinking soon after receiving it that I could make my own. I like making and using my own tools. The trouble is that I could not find a local supplier of brass. I did a search of eBay and discovered that there were cheap brass hammers being sold, ostensibly for jewellers. I paid $5 for one with a 7 oz head. Dave's hammer is 8 oz.
Completing the hammer involved drilling the head out for a handle, shaping a handle (in Jarrah), and adding leather to the one face. Brass is for steel, leather is for the wooden body.
Below is Dave's hammer (lower) and mine (top).
View Image
.. and the two heads together ..
View Image
I like the smaller hammer. It is compact and easier to control and delivers sufficient force. And just $5.
Regards from Perth
Derek
You can buy small quantities of brass and such at http://www.mcmaster.com Better prices than metaldepot, onlinemetals, etc and http://www.smallparts.com You can also buy the brass of a dead blow hammer and mount it to a wooden block. Look at the dead blow hammers at mcmaster. You realize it will cost more to make it than buying it from Lee Valley!
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=46540&cat=1,41182
Wood,
I'd bet you could go to your local hardware store and rummage around the plumbing section and find all the brass parts you'd need.
I'm thinking a brass T, brass plug for one end and mebbe a piece of dowel for the other. Cobble up a handle and Bob's your uncle. Gawd I like that phrase.
Prolly not elegant but could be quite functional. Hell just grab a file and some sandpaper to kinda dress it up a bit.
Imagination is a terrible thang to waste.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 1/14/2009 8:29 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 1/14/2009 8:30 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 1/14/2009 8:31 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Hi, Woodworker101 here...As usual, some great advice from all. I clicked on all the links you guys sent. I love the one you guys have made and have no problem paying for quality stuff like that. I think I'll still have a go at making my own. I never thought of using plumbing parts or even melting some down. Could be fun!My original size of 4x2x2 was just a rough guess at what I'd need to cut up, but you are right Philip, that is lots bigger than my desired finished size as I don't want to smash my planes to smithereens! Fortunately, some of those links you sent will sell 1x1x1 (and larger) in cylinder, octagon, or square sizes so I'll probably try to make a smaller one approx 1x1x3. Now I just gotta figure out how to drill a hole (with my tiny craftsman drill press none the less) in the center of a cylinder? Tell you what, when I get around to doing it I'll post a pic of it here for all to admire my non-existent metalworking skills! Thanks again for the advice...
101,Start with a square block of hardwood, maybe 2x2 x the length of your brass cylinder".Drill a hole the diameter of your brass cylinder, centered on the 2x2 face and through the length of the block. Make it a snug fit if you can. If the bits are not the right size, drill slightly oversize and add a wrap or two of masking tape to the cylinder to get a snug fit in the wood.Insert the brass cylinder.Now you have the flat surface of the wood to start drilling the hole and guide the bit as it hits the brass cylindrical surface.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
Since what I don't know about wooden planes will not fit into a large encyclopedia:Why a brass hammer? Is it to minimise damage to the wood? I use a hard rubber mallet. Is this wrong?
Why a brass hammer you ask? Probably easier to make than a Federal secretary.I have a couple of rubber mallets (of different sizes) bought from Lowe's, or maybe it was Sears, and an old rawhide mallet that I frankly don't remember buying. They seem to work fine. I have an El Cheapo no-name Warrington style hammer that hasn't wheezed yet when driving small brads and nails.I'm sure that by using these tools I'm making an appalling gaffe of some sort. No doubt somebody will come along and tell me specifically whose, or what, sensibilities I'm offending by not owning a brass hammer.
Edited 1/14/2009 4:40 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute
What posessed you to buy those? Did you misplace your rock?
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Please turn yourself in:CLEARWATER, Fla. (AP) - Wildlife officials said a rhesus monkey known to throw feces when mad is on the loose in Tampa Bay. Authorities have been trying to capture the primate since Tuesday afternoon, but it managed to evade a bucket truck and tranquilizer dart.Gary Morse with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission says the adult male is thought to have escaped from an unlicensed source. It was last seen in Clearwater.The monkey is not considered dangerous.
dav,
A fella needs a brass/wood/nylon hammer for his wooden planes, like a fella needs a skull and crossbones patch on his jacket if he has a chopper, or a pair of kidskin driving gloves and an ascot if he has an Aston-Martin, jodhpurs-- I know there's an "h" in that word somewhere, so I put it in the middle-- if he has a horse. He's just not taken seriously otherwise.
Me, I always felt my oversized mallet was good enough. But it is curly maple, and quite handsome. Hard rubber is simply declasse`, old man. I wouldn't let anyone know about that if I were you. ;-)
Ray
:-)
Dav,
A brass hammer is de rigueur , even mandatory in some elevated circles of society , as already noted by the resident Taliban cadre. I hasten to add that I mention this without the slightest hint of de haut en bas (last four words in italics).
The BRASS HAMMER will enable one to deliver a precise blow or delicate tap to a specific item in a refined and genteel manner, with aplomb.
In the same vein I agree with Ray when he observes that rubber hammers are declasse (pronounced with nasal French accent). Just won't do , you know, simply infra-dig, old chap.Also that rubber smell puts one off.
Listen, I recently received an instruction from the High Command to Lighten Up, so this is what I am doing (;).Philip Marcou
OK, I surrender.However I want to do things bigger and better than you lot.I have placed an order for a 6lb brass hammer with a Lignum Vitae handle which will be ornamented with silver filigree and a few (small - I don't want to be accused of bad taste) diamonds and rubies.Now to look for my wooden 6" shoulder plane. The blade needs a slight adjustment.This has livened up my morning. I've just spent an unpleasant 2 hours coaxing a recalcitrant server out of a hissy fit.
Brother Dave, if you want to make a brass hammer then do it. We're just fooling around with you.
I _don't_ want to make a brass hammer. Just wanted to make sure that I didn't need to.Re the fooling about: So was I in my previous post.
Besides the reasons Philip mentioned, one of the primary reasons for using a brass hammer is because it is softer than the steel you are striking. This prevents mushrooming your plane blade.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Aren't I striking the wood?
You strike the blade to set it and the wood body to release it. Take a look at this.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Hi don,
Yes that brass is softer than the steel blade, but so is wood, or rubber, or rawhide.
Did you read the write up from the link for the commercially made "plane hammers"? Handles from select ash with no run out? How hard are they expecting their customers to be whacking their planes with these things? Maybe they also sell them to lever fence posts out of the ground. Then they face the wooden half with a very hard wood, smaller dia than the brass, "so it will not dent the wood of the plane". I'd think a larger, rounded-over face of a softer wood might be better at spreading the impact, but would not be near as photogenic.
A brass hammer is handy to have around the shop. Drifting iron sights on a rifle is one use, and I'm sure a metal craftsman like philip has plenty of call for one. But I've never felt the need to use anything other than my "regular" shop mallet for setting my planes. I generally set the wedge lightly then adjust the blade set. A second light tap on the wedge fixes the blade in position. If I want to adjust the blade further, another tap on the blade, or the heel (or top of the toe) of the stock will do the trick.
I know there is a school of thought that says a wedge ought to be driven in til it squeals for mercy. I have a couple old ones that have the mushroomed wedge tops and split shoulders in their stocks to prove it.
If a brass/wood combination hammer is what speaks to you (or anyone else) as a necessary plane accoutrement, or for any other reason, that's fine by me. No Taliban here, heck I like the looks of brass as much as anyone. I'm the one with the leather jacket with a large patch on the back-(no skull and crossbones, "Indian" in flowing script) - to wear when I'm riding mah 'sicle.
Ray, the mild one
Hi Ray
Having no wood body planes I have not felt a hammer of any sort is a necessary accoutrement for my planes.
I do feel that a brass hammer is able to impart a more precise and easily controlled sharp shock to steel than a softer faced one.
I think a small hardwood head would be a lousy thing to use on a plane body and that your mallet or ttm's rawhide would be far preferable.
I did'nt read the write up but I am well familiar with the outlandish claims of the marketing types!
I think the brass hammer is a better tool for moving pieces of steel without damage to the steel, but it is certainly not the only way.
I have three sizes of brass hammers in the shop and would hate to be without them.
You and the injun look to have lost a little weight! If Madison see's that she might not take you up on that ride!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Edited 1/15/2009 10:25 am by dgreen
don,
If anyone wants a ride with that rider, on that machine, she'd have to go back in time about 40 yrs. The predessesor to the Chief, it was a 50cc Ducati.
Ray
Chief, a FIFTY cc Ducati? In America? (;)Philip Marcou
.............And them Ducatis had terrible timing gears & chain, which would "go out" if one got aboard and said something in French rather than "Andiamo"! Also, 49 of the cc were devoted to the production of noise (the other 1 cc made smoke).
Lataxe, who had 2 BSA C15s - proper British motorbikes from Brum with only one pot and the obligatory oil leak.
I had a couple of A65L's. Great machine other than the electrics by Lucas (Prince of Darkness).
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
You know, I thought the Chief had left out a zero there....
I have consulted my Book, and see no reference to a 50cc at all, the smallest engine being a 98cc produced in 1953.
So-either Ray has lost a rare and valuable collectors item- or he is shy to admit that in fact he had and I quote (and edit):-
"At the Milan fair in 1946 the Ducati Brothers introduced the Cucciolo (gotta love the name), a small auxiliary motor destined to become world famous.Initially it was sold in an assembly box which could be attached to a tricycle" lol....
Chow Bambina.Philip Marcou
I consulted my Book also and it says their first machines were 48cc and 65cc ohv produced in 1950.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don, possibly my book is not so well read as yours (;)- or maybe the Cucciola is in fact the 48cc item....
At any rate such an item these days would require the wearing of a full face helmet so that the rider is not recognised by any friends, but I suppose in THOSE days Ray would have been swathed in a huge head scarf to achieve that.Philip Marcou
P.S. My first bike was a Moto Benelli 150cc two stroke which won many an imaginery road race. Ran on many fuel mixes including meths and power parrafin.
Edited 1/15/2009 11:24 pm by philip
Looks like my book's not so well read either, a little searching on the web turned up a variety of Ducatis in that displacement up to at least 1976. Full page adverts no less, not just text references.
Nowadays you would have an angry mob of enviromentalists chasing the vapor trail of your Benelli!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
philip,
Traveling incognito wasn't necessary, as it never left the farm's cowtrails. The cows' seldom laughed out loud, but I got more than one dirty look as they would pass me in the fast lane.
Ray
Don,
I had a friend at university (late 60s) who definitely had a "50cc Ducati". I remember it as small, garishly red & rust, somewhat flimsy and often parked-up with it's guts hangin' oot, as it was forever going wrong. The worst culprit was the timing train, which wouldnae stay configured. Of course, he got it very cheap (indeed). In them days we students lived in garrets and only ate cheap chocolate and drank lemonade that was out-of-life.
The metal used to make the machine was a special soft-bendy alloy that the Italians sold the formula for to India, in 1971, where it was used to make woodworking plane blades. :-)
It was just as well that the wee phutterer didn't often go, as it really did produce mostly noise and smoke, even at its flat-out 38kph. (Or was it 28kph, I forget). It got left to rot in the outhouse of a delapidated cottage we all rented, out in the sticks. It will have melted back into the Earth's crust by now.
Lataxe, who prefers bicycles in fact.
In Ducati's defence, they apparently did'nt design the 50cc motor. It appears it was designed by a gent named Aldo Farinelli.
In the postwar years the frames were probably hammered together c-ration cans.
The 50cc motor was available separately as Philip noted, as a kit complete with belcrank and all the other necessary bits to fit it to your bicycle. You could have the best/worst of both disciplines!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Sire,
I think you are confused/overcome by hazy memories: those 50cc engines were two strokes i.e no timing gear needed.
But later on Ducati came up with with their Desmodromic valve gear train which was without chains and I think still used today.Philip Marcou
Philip,
It's true - the thing was not an oil-burner. Well, it was but this was due to loose piston rings and other "seals" rather than 2-stroke oil in the juice.
In which case, one wonders what the queer machine was? It was a tiny engine and had but a single pot of diminutive size. It looked a lot like that one in Don's picture, although so did any number of others at that time. (Generic motorbike design motifs). And the best-looking bit on it was the Ducati emblem on the tank-sides.
I can see the owner now (one Chris from Barrow in Furness) crouched next-the thing, cursing as he struggled to line up the dots on the timing gears or bend over the lock washer (again) without the tab snapping orf (again).
Lataxe, recalling strange practices through a mist of time and even weirder subsequent events.
You may not know that in Italy, up to the late 70s, if not later, you did not need a licence to drive one of these things.The main seller was the Vespa motor-scooter and it was a very popular way of getting around city streets. They were not allowed onto motorways and arterial roads. Nor were they allowed passengers (yes, they could cope with a pillion rider, on the flat)Given the Italian style of driving they could have been considered to be suicide vehicles. In fact they do not seem to have been so. Nevertheless my Neapolitan uncle laid down only 2 laws when we visited:1. You will not drive here. No Way.
2. If you get onto a Vespa I will ship you back home. Steerage.Rule one was waived after guests turned 21. Incidentally a car trip into Naples centre took 2 hours by car, 15 minutes by train.
don,
Holy cow, I had no idea y'all be doing genealogical research on that little peashooter. For your further studies: It was a two-stroke engine. The gas and oil had to be premixed. Kick-start, magneto ignition. Three-speed, on the handlebar (think three speed bicycle, with a clutch lever on the grip). Basically, a moped w/out pedals. I have no idea of the year it was made, bought used around 1967. I'm sure the three wheeled version, (philip) is more valuable nowadays.
Kindly post a link if you find it.
Ray
Looks like with a little fettling it was a ferocious puppy. Found this on Ducati.com.
Ugo Tamarozzi: The efforts of the early riders, beginning in the late 1940s, culminated in the astonishing record breaking successes of Ducati godfather, Ugo Tamarozzi. In the early 50s, Tamarozzi propelled the Cucciolo to new prestigious heights, setting and re-setting a series of speed categories on the racetrack at Monza (including twenty-seven world records in the 50cc class). Tamarozzi demonstrated ingenuity both on and off the track. An expert rider, he was also an expert mechanic, in the workshop proving a worker of miracles. More alchemist than artisan, Tamarozzi mixed his own fuel solutions (benzol and acetone with gasoline) in order to elicit the highest possible performance from his T3 engines. If, in the workshop, he was Dr Jekyll, on the track he was Mr. Hyde. Suffice to say, with Tamarozzi, the 'Puppy' became a beast that roared.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
don,
The pup didn't have much bite running on regular gas and chainsaw oil. Tho things improved after dad and I honed the cylinder, cleaned the ports, put in a .30 over piston, and flattened the warped aluminum head. More power! argh argh aaarrrg!
Ray
This looks pretty close. I can't find any pictures that show the same front fender brace as yours.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
don,
Oh! That made a thrill run up my leg. Or the memory of one anyways. Any idea what model year that is?
Ah if Youth only knew. If Age only could...
Ray, suddenly feeling Very Old
Finally one with the correct brace.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
don,
That's her. "Falcon 50".
Denoting its lightning speed and bloodthirsty ferocity. Only in Italy...
My model had lost the tool box, cylinder shroud, horn, and handlebar-mounted ching-ching bell. Obviously, it had been stripped down for ISDT, or maybe the jackpine enduro...
Ray
Cucciolo = Puppy in Italian
davce,
How appropriate- I called mine a dog more than once.
Ray
philip,
Now, y'all are just bein' mean. Pickin' on a little kid like that. Don't make him take off those shades...
Ray
philip,
Hey, a kid's gotta start somewhere...
Ray
Many posters in here have ALOT of Brass! I would ask them!
We Americans have more Brass than anything!
EDIT.. YES WE HAVE ISSUES AND THEM SOME!
But I think we like a new friend...
Edited 1/18/2009 4:05 pm by WillGeorge
Ray,
Wow, you aint changed much since that pic of the birdhouse with the children, 'cept mebbe a wee bit o gray and that bare patch atop yo noggin. Hadta put me shades on cuz o' the glare!
Sorry couldn't resist,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 1/15/2009 12:47 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob,
Don't you know, a high polish is necessary for sharpness, both in plane edges and noggins?
Grey hair, a friend used to say, "Just cause there's a little snow on the roof, don't mean there ain't still some fire in the furnace!"
Besides, if the rest of y'all want to waste your hormones growing hair, all right by me.
Ray full of rationalisation
Better yet do you have any screw machine shops in your area?
They always have what they call bar ends that they resell for scrap.
As far as the other end goes I would get a piece of delron about 1.5 inches long and tap a 5/16-18 thread in the end and in the brass, put a set setscrew in the brass and thread the Delron onto it. Now all we need is the handle.
Ebay. There are guys on there who sell new stock, and quite a few who sell offcuts from small shops.
http://business.shop.ebay.com/items/Metals-Alloys__brass_W0QQ_catrefZ1QQ_flnZ1QQ_sacZ1QQ_sacatZ29402QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em282?_trksid=p3286.c0.m282
The cost of the brass and shipping is prohibitive. Forget melting and casting.The setup to do this for one small casting cost more than 50 store bought brass hammers.
Find a local outlet that sells brass stock, machine shops maybe or home shop machinists.If there are garden railway locomotive clubs in the area then some of those fellows may sell you a small piece of brass.How exactly are you going to shape it? You need a lathe and tooling.I don't want to discourage you from making your own but it may cost more than it's worth.
Now that being said you could cast type metal ( 94% tin, the rest lead and antimony)
This metal is soft enough to work with woodworking tools and is easy to cast.It is not as hard as brass and you will not need the wooden insert either.You can get it online, I paid about a dollar a pound plus shipping last year for some. If you have a lathe,wood or metal you can turn type metal and get a very nice pewter like finish.
A small cast iron pot, small propane or mapp gas torch will suffice to melt the type metal.If you have a hot plate that will come in handy, not to melt but to keep the melt liquid until ready to pour.I use a small cast aluminum ladle that was made for casting and pouring lead for sinkers.
Do this outside or a well ventilated room, best to prewarm the pot on the hot plate then melt the metal in the pot.If the metal gets too hot it will perk and boil, put pot on the hot plate and let it cool somewhat so it doesn't bubble.Now you can pour into a mold.make the mold larger by 10%. Type metal shrinks as it cools, and you need to allow for machining.
mike
Mr 101,
I made a very simple plane hammer out of a chunk of teak and a brass bracket of...something or other. (It was lying about the hardware cupboard). Here it is:
View Image
The brass bracket was screwed on with brass screws having a head a bit too big for the countersunk holes in the bracket, then filed down to leave the whole face flush (no screw slots left).
View Image
It weighs only a few ounces but this is just right for tappy-tapping at various bits of the plane, as with that Mujingfang ebony tryplane.
View Image
View Image
It is a little crude but does the job purfeckly. Of course, I have one o' them Marcou ones for when I'm feeling posh.
Lataxe
Good Sir,
A pretty little mallet, that.
And when should you ever not feel posh? I looked up "posh" in my dictionary, and there was a picture of yourself, holding something shiney...
Ray
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