Replies

1. 
   BenM | Feb 11, 2003 04:01pm | #1

   If you can shave with it then it's sharp.  If both sides are polished and when you hold it up to the light you cannot see a line of light then it's sharp.  If you don't need too much effort to push the tool through a piece of wood and you're getting a nice looking surface then it's sharp.  In my opinion a burr is something that has to be removed.

2. 
   jako17 | Feb 11, 2003 04:11pm | #2

   A burr is the last thing you need, thats the purpose of stropping or buffing,to remove it. With a burr on a chisel or  plane iron  the first cut will snap it off giving you "scary blunt"and a micro serrated edge!

3. 
   DestinDave | Feb 11, 2003 04:15pm | #3

   It seems to me that many people are obsessive about sharpening, as though sharpness were an end in itself. To me, a tool is sharp enough when it performs properly by MY standard. I don't care whether it has a burr or not, whether I can comb my hair by my reflection on the blade. If a plane blade makes a nice, paper thin shaving, that's all I care about.

4. 
   MarkRoderick | Feb 11, 2003 04:28pm | #4

   You can get a burr by rubbing the blade against your driveway. Any sharpening creates a burr; the finer the abrasive, the finer the burr. You ARE getting a burr on the 2000 grit sandpaper, it just may be too fine for you to feel. But by alternating on the bevel and back of the blade you remove this burr, and the blade is sharp.

   If you're up to 2000 grit you can probably shave the hair on your arm, and the blade is sharp.

   An article in a recent issue of FWW addressed the sharpening issue head on. Take a look.

   I think you're getting the blades plenty sharp with 2000 grit sandpaper and a final pass on green honing compound. At that point a blade should easily slice through wood, which is all that matters.

5. 
   BG | Feb 11, 2003 04:43pm | #5

   Sailalex,

   I guess I disagree with the other respondants, not because they are wrong, but because when adopting a new system (scary sharp) you need to know you know how to do it right at least the first time.  I stay with the 150 grit until I get the burr then remove it and go forward from there.  I do not try to achieve a burr at each level..no benefit to that.  After achieving the burr the first time I don't worry about it unless I want to change the slope.  I gotta tell you, after sharpening a Japanese chisel and a Sorby chisel to the burr level....the Sorby edge rolled and the japanese chisel did not. 

1. 
   NOTRIX1 | Feb 11, 2003 08:10pm | #8

   "...after sharpening a Japanese chisel and a Sorby chisel to the burr level....the Sorby edge rolled and the japanese chisel did not. "

   Yup,

   I don't get it. Happened a while back with my Marples as well. My Sorby mostising chisels fair better but I have them honed to about 30-35 degress, but they can still roll. Western chisels are dying breed I'm afraid. I've seen much discussion but many people are having the same poor performance. Costs. liability a litany or reasons western chisel makers are not making good steel. Reminds me of when Ford was having trouble with paint a few years back-blamed everything on environmentalists- but no other manufactuars were having as much trouble. If the Japanese can make a great chisel there is no excuse that western manufactuars can as well. I can't afford $300 for a set of chisels but can spend $30-$50 every couple weeks on one till I get a set I can rely on. I have 4 now that are amazing!

   Rumors persist of a US tool maker coming out with some very nice chisels indeed!

   N

1. 
   EdHarrison | Feb 11, 2003 10:10pm | #9

   Yes indeedy, indeedy,...I exchanged some e-mails with Mr. Thomas L-N himself,....the guy was so nice,...it was like e-mailing your grandfather.

   He said they're going to be based on the Stanley 750s and that they are happy with the prototypes. I'm on the list to be notified when some are ready to ship and I'm saving my $$$. I'm all over this one!

   BTW, for everyone, I've got this old Stanley 720 paring chisel at 1.5 inches that, for some reason just seems to hold its edge about twice as long as any other chisel. Talk about the mysteries of old tool steel. It's so cool sometimes I just walk around the shop looking for things to pare with it.

   Well back to work. Refinishing a garden swing out in the sunshine today.

1. 
   AlanTurner | Feb 11, 2003 11:58pm | #10

   I too have talked with Thomas L-N, and emailed with him, about the new chisels.  Can't seem to get a firm date for release, but I am on the list.  I seem to think that it is a problem finding a supply of hornbeam, but I could be having a senior moment.  I think Mr. L-N did not tell me this, heard it elsewhere as I recall.  If I recall.

   So, while waiting, went to an antiques market with my bride, mostly just looking, and found two old Stanley socket chisels, 1/4" and 1/2", with perhaps 6" or so of blade length.  My other chisels are butts, so much shorter.  Put them on the Tormek, and they are great, but the length takes a bit of getting used to.  The longer ones are sure easier to sharpen.  I like them a lot, but can't yet comment on the steel quality as they are pretty new, and I haven't really chopped with them for long enough to have an opinion.  $35 for the pair.  Bet L-N charges a drop more.  But, I will probably buy one or two from him as well.  I suggested that he make a dovetail chisel, and he sd. they were thinking of some specialty chisels.  I find the 10mm Bahco that I reground (based on a FWW shop note) to be really handy for chopping dovetails.  Gets in the corners quite easily.

   Alan

1. 
   EdHarrison | Feb 12, 2003 12:52am | #11

   Sounds like you made a great find on the old stanleys. Congrats!

2. 
   AlanTurner | Feb 12, 2003 01:10am | #12

   This fellow has a booth, and is there every Sunday.  Has a ton of old chisels.  Pricing is not what it might be in a yard sale, but not too bad.  Many of his are mortise or framing chisels, far too large for my usual work.  Frenchy would probably like them.

3. 
   EdHarrison | Feb 12, 2003 03:51am | #13

   I just know that there are all kinds of tools hidden away in the musty attics, barns, and cellars of Mississippi. I'm constantly on the lookout for estate sales. Someday I'm going to hit handtool nirvana.

   Then the moral dilemma of how much to pay.... I bought a couple handtools from a lady selling her late husband's stuff. She had no idea what was a fair price. She said that her son was going to sell the stuff later. I gave her about 95 percent of what I thought was the going ebay rate, and left detailed descriptions of the two tools that I bought for her son.

   Then there was the other extreme of a garage sale I went to and this old guy insisted on giving me a rusty old tool box full of two dozen old cast iron wrenches. I tried to pay him something - he wouldn't take money. So I threw the box in the back of my truck. Two of the big ol cast iron wrenches fit my table saw arbor nut perfectly and make changing blades/ putting on a dado set very quick and easy. Ed

4. 
   lwilliams | Feb 12, 2003 05:00pm | #17

   I've been playing with a proto-type Lie-Nielsen chisels for a couple months. It's design is based on old Stanley 750 chisels. I have and use a lot of old chisels but don't care much for most of the new ones. This Lie-Nielsen ranks right up there with the best of my old chisels. When they become available I will have a set of 'em.

5. 
   AlanTurner | Feb 12, 2003 06:10pm | #18

   Pray tell, how did ou manage to get some prototypes?  I would be glad to volunteer for a bit of testing of them.  Where do I sign up?

6. 
   lwilliams | Feb 12, 2003 08:40pm | #20

   I was glad to do it too. All I can really say is that Thomas is familiar with my work and I happened to be at the right place, at the right time and the circumstances were right. It was nothing other than pure luck and pretty unlikely to happen again.

6. 
   JamesC67 | Feb 11, 2003 04:50pm | #6

   Personally I have mine so they will shave the hair on my arm without having to use much force but be sure to be vewy,vewy carefull with this method becouse when you least expect it them darn blades will get ya.  As far as mirror finish goes I have mine so the metal on them is smooth.  The more important part to me is having the faces as flat as possible.

    Good Luck,

    Jim Clark  A,K A "DOC"

7. 
   plinthe | Feb 11, 2003 07:47pm | #7

   I have a quick trick to test for sharpness: place the blade gently on to your thumbnail. If you tilt your thumb downwards and the blade holds, it's sharp enough. If the blade slides down your thumbnail and takes off a small shaving, it's not quite there yet.

   A previous poster said it all about the burr: it's only important on the first grit or stone, because it means you have sharpened the whole edge to a point. If you can't see a burr on your first grit, don't let it bother you: what counts is whether the blade is sharp when you finish all the grits. Burr or no burr.

   Plinthe

8. 
   sailalex | Feb 12, 2003 05:02am | #14

   Thanks for all your comments. I guess my hunches were correct because I was getting great performance without the burr. Thanks again!

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Feb 12, 2003 08:07am | #15

   How sharp is sharp, the 'tradies' test is:

   If it cuts a sliver of wood off the endgrain of a piece of pine, without ripping out any fibres, its sharp enough, and you're not fiddling around trying to shave your arm with something that wasn't designed for the purpose, risking cuts to arms or through your fingernails and into the finger.

   Cheers, eddie

1. 
   AlanTurner | Feb 12, 2003 04:16pm | #16

   Interesting.  Would that be on a straight push, or with a slicing action?

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Feb 12, 2003 09:06pm | #21

   Hi s4s,

   straight push.

   Cheers,

   eddie

2. 
   plinthe | Feb 12, 2003 06:44pm | #19

   Sounds good, Eddie. I have another method of testing sharpness called the "amputation method," but I guess I'll just reach for a scrap of pine ;-)

   Plinthe

1. 
   bill_1010 | Feb 13, 2003 01:06am | #22

   sharp is when you look through a magnifying lens and the edge doesnt reflect light.  Reflection means the edge is rounded off.