Like so many of you, I started out as a self-taught kid with wide – eyed enthusiasm trying to learn and discover every technique there was to learn about woodworking. I experienced a lot of failures and had a lot of unanswered questions that I just couldn’t seem to find answers too.
Finally, I scraped up the money and attended school at the Worcester Center for Crafts. It was there I really learned and honed my skills and techniques in a way I could have never done on my own. One of my teachers played a huge role in this. His name is Loren Manbeck, and he’s been in woodworking for over 50 years. His teaching was very traditional and very practical. He could really show you how to refine and improve your skills. He laid a very solid foundation of traditional hand tool skills to build on from there. I believe the instruction he received when he was in school had a lot to do with it. You see, his teacher was Tage Frid.
So, for the last 4 years now, I’ve been refining and honing this foundation that he so graciously gave me. Learning never stops. We never “arrive.” The journey is the experience that we should all be joyously basking in, as we increase our knowledge and wisdom of the craft.
Along the way, we all have setbacks and challenges. We all experience obstacles that make us better as we overcome them. For those who do not have professional instruction, these hills can seem like mountains. Which leads me to ask a simple question of all of you.
What challenges or obstacles have you faced on your own that would have been easier to overcome if you would have had a teacher there to guide you?
With so many of us coming from varied backgrounds, I was curious as to what have been some of the greatest obstacles that we’ve all faced in learning the art and craft of woodworking.
Please take the time to post your answers here. We all stand to learn so much from each other. I thank you all and can’t wait to hear from you. Thanks again.
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Replies
I've been a self taught woodworker my whole life. Aside from your regular high school shop class taught by a gym teacher, I've never had the opportunity to study woodworking from someone who knows how to work wood well. Even my Wood Technology class at the University of Cincinnati was more on-your-own learning. I've always wondered what it would be like to attend a woodworking school. I'm sure you can learn things a lot quicker with hands on training rather than read it in a book or watch it on video, but I doubt I'll ever have the chance to attend a craft school.
For me the hardest thing to learn is finishing. Only in the past few years have I paid more attention to it. In the past, I would build something, sand it, and then wipe a couple coats of Danish oil on it and call it done. My finishing was passable at best. Then one year I went to The Philadelphia Furniture and Furnishing Show. I wanted to see the quality of work from the exhibitors and compare it to my own. It was there that I realized that finishing was the most important step in the building process. The finish on a piece of furniture is the first impression that you get when you look at it. It doesn't matter how well the piece was constructed, how tight the joints fit or what material was used. If the piece is not properly finished, it simply will not look good.
The furniture I saw at the show was incredible. When you walked up to inspect it, you didn't see any tool marks, sanding marks, glue spots, brush marks, blotches, etc... Just a clean surface area that was completely smooth to the touch. It had the mark of quality and you knew it was worth the amount of money they were asking for. Ever since then I've taken my time when it comes to the finishing process. I've even gone so far as to retire my random orbital sander as I can't stand the little pigtail swirl marks it leaves. They seem to telescope when the first coat of finish is applied even when I previously sanded all the way down to 220 grit. Now I go from using planes and scrapers to 120 then 220 grit sand paper using my palm sander before I apply my first coat of finish. Then I'll apply at least four coats of oil-urethane and sand with 320 grit between coats. It has definitely helped my furniture look a lot better but I wish there was someone there to teach me this twenty years ago.
Edited 10/31/2008 11:18 am ET by mvflaim
ak,
with out a doubt, doing things the wrong way, has been an important way to learn. there are also those little jobs that "should" take but a few minutes. you know, hanging a picture, not hitting a stud and having to replaster the wall to hide your stud finder holes.
eef
Edited 10/29/2008 4:23 pm ET by Eef
Adam,
I, too, am largely self-taught. While I did take all 6 woodworking courses offered by my high school, that primarily provided access to machinery. My knowledge was about the same as the teachers except for the last year, where the WW teacher retired and the automotive teacher stepped in.
I have never really been afraid to try a technique unless it seemed unsafe. I surround myself with lots of knowledgable peers (you guys included) and learn a lot from them.
The greatest obstacle I have to overcome is discipline to keep my shop clean. I am working on that by overhauling my shop and building a bench and lots of storage space.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
One challenge or obstacle I have faced on my own that would have been easier to overcome if I would have had a teacher here to guide me is convincing a few good wood workers that if you pay attention to the thousandths in your tools the rest of it will take care of its self. : )
But seriously, as they say, the following were my biggest obstacles / discoveries:
Hand saw tuning; less set in the teeth of my saws, wider sharpening angle on each individual tooth for the hardest wood so the saw doesn't grab and jump.
Learning to coarse plane longer before going to medium and fine to speed up the hand planing.
Back bevel or steep bevel on BU to prevent tear out.
I am quite happy with the teaching I have had access to through FWW ! The world has been my oyster through the magazines. High end wood working without FWW would have been impossible given my limited mobility and limited budget. An extremely valuable resource for me. It has taken way longer to get to where I can produce the level of results that make me say
"wow; I can't believe I can do that now"
than if I had attended a wood working school taught by a master. But here I am.
The next step is to get more speed. I am extremely slow to get the results I want. Good thing I don't have to make a living at this I would be a starved to death skeleton leaning in the corner with a tool in my hand.
I have a thing I repeat to my self when I start a new day in the shop:
I am lucky to have a shop space
I won't have it for ever
I stand on the shoulders of giants while I am there.
Edited 10/29/2008 2:07 am by roc
Self taught. I have three college degrees and it dismays me how stupid I am about joinery and the process of work.
I am a jig nut, so I pretty much jig everything. It takes longer, but the results are more accurate and repeatable. I wish I had more confidence with hand tools. Regards, Scooter"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Scooter,"What's this ! Some miserable cure has stolen the cork out of my luuunnnch." WCWish I had your ability to memorize all the things it takes to get them degrees !Some times I think I like making jigs more than the furniture. Well almost.back at cha
roc
Scooter,
You and I seem to be at opposite ends of the scale. I have lots of confidence with hand tools (not a master yet, though) but rarely use jigs.
I, like you, am self taught however.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Yeah, extreme.I'll even make a jig for installing drawer pull holes or other layout situations. I'll probably even try it out on a similar sized piece of mdf scrap to see how it looks before using it on the real drawer. I also make lots of mock ups and protypes before making anything. Quarter inch mdf is so cheap $5-10 a sheet) and white oak is so expensive ($5-8 a bf)I'm real anal about that stuff.Regards, Scooter"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
AK,
What is my greatest challenge in Woodworking?
I am retired. Have been woodworking since 1968 as a hobby. Even in retirement, my biggest challenge is finding the time to do all of the woodworking that I want to do.
So much wood. So little time.
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Thanks everyone for your great responses! This is very interesting for me, and I'm sure for all of you, seeing the perspective of all these fellow woodworkers and the obstacles they are having to overcome.
It seems a common obstacle is discovering the finer points to a certain skill or process.In light of this, I'm curious to know something else.If you had the chance to learn the "finer points" of a particular skill set from an expert, what would that skill set be?Thanks again to everyone for posting, and I look forward to reading your replies. You're right, roc. We all stand on the shoulders of giants while in our shops.Adam King Studio
Fine Furniture and Antique Restoration
challenges: impatient by nature - too inclined to take short cuts
would like to have learned from teacher: reading the grain.
>If you had the chance to learn the "finer points" of a particular skill set from an expert, what would that skill set be?I could make a very long list; there are so many masters in this country !
but the one that is probably furthest out there from anything I have done so far and one person that takes my breath away when I see his work it would have to belearn marquetry from
Paul Schürchduring his journeyman period he studied here and traveled from American to other countries year after year to learn from the best. Plus he can build the furniture he decorates !http://www.schurchwoodwork.com/portfolio1/page6A.htmlhttp://www.schurchwoodwork.com/portfolio1/page1A.htmlhttp://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Community/ArtistProfile.aspx?id=1298
Edited 10/29/2008 10:21 pm by roc
The things I'd like to learn from the masters are design methods and strategies. I feel reasonably comfortable with my joinery skills but there have only been a couple of pieces over the years where I felt I'd achieved something solid in the design department. I have no training, no eye, no drawing or drafting skills - I'm a hack! (And I don't mean Garrett, either.) Maybe when I retire......
Kell
>when I retireI once met a woman who was on an expedition; solo. She was Caucasian (I think) but very dark, weathered, her face deeply wrinkled from exposure, looked like an aborigine. I was working a support station for travelers on a long route. We were the largest station on the entire route. My associates did not want to approach her. She was very different from the rest we had worked with. I found her educated, well spoken, experienced and well prepared for her journey.I asked her how she came to have such a big dent in her metal army type mess kit (this was 1970s). She said a stray mule had stepped on it while she slept.She was fifties or sixties; hard to tell. She asked if I did this sort of thing much. I was just a teenager at the time. I said I hoped to do more some day.Her parting words were "do as much as you can now ! It just gets harder".
Edited 10/30/2008 2:47 pm by roc
Adam,
Maybe some hands-on finishing would be in order. I am not afraid of finishing, but I am less than adventurous. I've tried some finishes and been happy with them, and I've stuck with them (lacquer, oil, shellac, oil-varnish blends). Nothing wrong with that , but it wouldn't hurt to try some new finishes and techniques. Staining intimidates me, though I am okay with analine dyes. Maybe partly because I am colour blind.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Learning to turn bowls! I can do it but I seem to often get in a hurry and position a tool in a way thay I shouldn't, and WAM!!! There it goes flying. I know what to do, but can't seem to always do what I know is right. I guess this is part of the learning process, but DARN, it is frustrating to run something that you have spent hours creating. I'll keep trying.
Bruce
Hi,
I'm a self-taught woodworker. Being French speaking, living in North America, my biggest challenge was the language. The most valuable books, magazines, videos, DVDs, TV programs, websites are made or written in English. For over 35 years I've been reaching every single day for dictionaries to understand what could teach me the woodworking craft. I am fortunate for having worked my whole carreer in Human Resources in both languages, giving me the opportunity to learn the rudiments of the English language. Looking at the pictures and sketches of the hundreds books and magazines I bought over the years was not enough. I had to mentally work hard to understand the language first and then understand and learn the craft.
No regrets though. I'm happy to be where I am, happy to do what I do. Knots is another great way to pratice the language and learn more about the craft.
Best,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.spaces.live.com
I think most of us would agree that woodworking is a journey with lots of stops along the way. For me, at the beginning of the journey, Accurate measuring and layout eluded and frustrated me as I would have to cut new boards or just accept the fact that something was out of square. Learning HOW to accurately layout projects has come from reading , being taught and of course the best teacher: EXPERIENCE (experience is recognising your mistake the second time you make it). Now , most of the time I get it right and when I don't it's usually from hurrying or not remembering I left something proud or oversized with the intention of paring or planing it down before final fit. It's satisfying to get over a hump like that and realize that you've made real progress and others remark about your improvement.
Neil, journeyman and risk taker
......and, of course, the best teacher; EXPERIENCE....
I agree with you in most instances. The one I disagree with you is that of safety. Those mistakes can be very, to put it mildly, inopportunistic, resulting in disability or even fatality. One just has to rely on good judgement and grab every bit of advice from others that you can. This forum has helped me heaps.
Edited 11/1/2008 11:22 pm ET by Tinkerer3
and I am agreeing with you>EXPERIENCE
>advice from others
>on the job trainingMy "experience" with the above compared to the text written by people who are acknowledged cream of the crop in their field is this:When a thoughtful master sits down to write his thoughts out for others to read in a widely read media, id est, books and magazines, I find they put their best into it. Hopefully agonizing over their product until it is concise.In a forum such as this or a lecture or a spur of the minute instruction on the job there may be much left out or unclear that could have been presented much better after some reflection and revision.Perhaps this is why I am always "dropping names" and posting authors and their writings. I am not master, cream of any crop, or recognized authority. So to encourage people to take a look at the possibilities of what I refer to I point the way to the quality source.Do not underestimate the above resources. The alternative so many are defending here suggests that each of us should, on our own, waste hours and hours reinventing the wheel and then proudly compare notes.I am not saying don't verify what one reads but some shun the books in toto. Thats gotta hurt !I say if you want to make a custom made cart there is no shame in buying some pre made wheels.
Hello, everyone. My name is Ralph, and I'm a woodoholic. (I love threads that function as group therapy.) ;-)
Although I've been a casual/occasional woodworker since the '60s when I started assembling a shop, I'm retired now. Other than a class in high school, I'm also self-taught (or, mis-taught, as the case may be). As a retiree, my biggest challenge is actually affording wood that I can turn into sawdust. Secondarily, the big challenge is to bring what I can envision, plan, and draw to fruition, using the tools I have and jigs that I can make at minimal expense.
Accurate measurement and layout continue to be a challenge for me, along with the corresponding accuracy of making the cuts.
Now that I have the time, I'm learning a lot from more-experienced people here. This has included how to tune various tools so they perform well.
Ralph,
Accurate measurement and layout continue to be a challenge for me, along with the corresponding accuracy of making the cuts.
That statement really strikes a chord with me. It's a thought I've been having for some time now. I mean, you can have the most dead on accurate measuring tool in the world and mark the cutline with the finest marking tool, but ya still gotta cut the wood. That simple act seems so trite but to me there's a lot going on there.
I wonder how many folks cut it close then pare/shape it to fit precisely? I know I have to do it that way. Also, sometimes I just know the cut isn't dead on. Almost like another sense I didn't know I had. I might even give the board just a bit of English cause I sense that's what needs to be done.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 11/1/2008 9:25 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
RalphBarker,I was sitting in the (ahem) "office" today rereading this old article. It applies to your dilemma of how to cut to a line that you have laid out. See specifically the standard spacers that he combines and the wood strip that he then puts with the stack and then moves to the back of the work.Also reading metal machinist layout info can be of help. They (we) spray down a sheet of metal with very dark blue dye and then scribe and prick punch their way to "perfection".I am not recommending you hose your wood down with dye just be aware of the techniques and tools other wise.Magnifying visors come in handy. For layout and for sawing/cutting. Don't be afraid to get crazy with the bright work lights for this as well. Both of these has improved my results a lot. (of coarse planing/paring to the line that Bob said is the most accurate of all and I sure need to do that).Edited 11/1/2008 10:25 pm by roc
Edited 11/1/2008 10:33 pm by roc
Adam,
I was also self taught for the most part when I started. I had taken classes in college, read and done quite a bit, even restored our own 1890 house. Still, when it came to actually working on other people's houses, I knew I needed real experience. After college, my wife and I moved to a small town where we intended to stay. It didn't take much to realize any reputation I made here I'd have for the rest of my working life.
I hired out with the best contractor that would hire me and started on the dumb end of a shovel. A worked for a few contractors but always refused to work for anyone who wasn't legitimate. If they weren't licensed, didn't withhold taxes or carry Workmen's Comp, wouldn't work for them. I made a real effort to learn everything I could while I tried to get on with the most reputable contractor in the area. It took a few years to get on with them, they didn't have much turnover, and years later I owned a third of that business.
Just a couple days ago I was talking to a long-time friend and he said, "When I moved to town every guy I met was a dishwasher or carpenter. The dishwashers were only dishwashers until they made enough money to buy a hammer."
I saw a lot of people become carpenters, cabinet makers or contractors without the experience they needed. I saw a lot of people, workers and customers, hurt physically or financially because others misrepresented themselves. There were also a few fatalities. Every day for the last 14 years I've watched my wife limp because neither a so-called "contractor" nor a single one of his "carpenters" understood the most basic layout of stair stringers.
Anyone who's worked in the construction trades is familiar with the large number of people who misrepresent themselves and their experience. It's a problem and few of the skilled people I've met have much patience for it.
Like I mentioned, this is a small town. I had to get along with people and keep my mouth shut. At times, because of my wife and daughter, I ended up socializing with people I didn't think deserved much respect. My biggest challenge was just keeping my irritation to myself when I thought other people weren't honest about their knowledge or experience. Now that I'm older than dirt, I don't have to watch my tongue so much any more and I don't. Sometimes it doesn't make me very popular around here but I don't mind making people defensive when they have good reason to be defensive.
Yep ! I hear that.I have never understood the person who devotes their time to a trade but refuses to immerse themselves in it and does not get interested in the details that could make their life easier. To say nothing of keeping their butt out of a lawsuit.
Adam,
For me it can easily be summed up in two words: time and patience. Because I have so much less time in the shop than I would like, I find that I become impatient and hurry to finish each task. These, more than any other culpret, result in sub-par work. The irony, I suppose, is that if I was patient and accurate I would finish in less time and my problems would be solved. However, my mother tried for decades to teach me patience, so I'm not holding out much hope.
Aaron
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