Replies

1. 
   turningtom | Jul 13, 2002 05:38am | #1

   I use a wide range of stains in my custom furniture business including aniline dyes. I like the dyes (I use both alcohol and water dyes) because the colors are so clear and brilliant. They seem to be very stable and resistant to fading. I buy the powder and mix about 20 different colors in quart jars and keep them in the refrigerator. They keep for many years. I mix them together to make custom colors. I buy the alcohol stains pre-made from Solar-lux. If your are looking for a stain that will really take on maple try the Solar-lux colors. They really bit.

   If you use the water stains you must pre-wet the wood and sand lightly to raise the grain before you stain. You can apply almost any top coat a when it dries. I happen to use water-born lacquers for finish.

   I spray both the stain and the lacquer. I have used the water materials for 20years. They are relatively non-toxic and non- flammable.

   I also use oil stains and regular lacquer. You have to work out a system that works for you. I am by no means a finishing expert but I have many years experience. Tom

2. 
   keithl61 | Jul 14, 2002 05:56am | #2

   I have used analine dyes to great effect on maple. I prefer the mix-em yourself powders to the pre-mixed stuff. I have also found that the water based dyes are more light fast (yes, the alcohol based dyes will fade when exposed to sunlight) and much easier to work with than are the alcohol based dyes. Just be sure to make lots of test pieces before you commit yourself. Also, you might want to consider pre-sealing the maple with a light wash coat of shellac prior to staining it. This is not strictly necessary, but it will help to reduce maple's tendency for uneven dye penetration (blotch prevention).

   One other idea worth considering. You never did say what color or tone you were looking for. If all you are trying to achieve is a slightly warmer golden hue then you can skip the dye treatment altogether. A base coat of linseed oil will work absolute wonders for otherwise boring maple. If the wood does have any interesting grain figure then the linseed oil will make that figure pop right out at you. Even if there is no interesting figure, it will still warm the wood up with a nice rich amber glow. After sufficient drying time you can rub the oiled wood down with 4/0 steel wool and follow up with the top coat of your choosing.

   Good luck, Keith

   
   

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   Edited 7/13/2002 10:57:46 PM ET by KEITHL61

3. 
   mapleman | Jul 14, 2002 07:43pm | #3

   I agree with turningtom, I also have used aniline dyes with great sucess, however I have never tried the alcohol soluble dye. I have only used the water soluble stuff. Definitely pre-wet the wood and then sand to raise the grain. You will still get some raised grain, however I usually sand to at least 220 grit, sometimes 320. After you raise the grain, sand again with the last grit you used. This can be a pain in the butt with intricate mouldings like picture frames, so you will have to fold the sandpaper up in your hand to conform to the shape. Don't sand too hard, the dye doesn't penetrate extremely deep. If you do sand through, you can re-apply some dye. One thing I learned the hard way with the water based dye is you have to flood the entire surface quickly with dye or it will tend to splotch. Try to keep the entire surface wet until you are done, you may have to mix the dye a little weak and apply more, it is better to be a little lighter at first because you can apply another coat if it is not dark enough for you. Sometimes I put a coat of dye on, let it dry, and then sand again with 320 or 400 and put another coat on. One other thing - if you go with the water based dye, don't brush on a water based finish - the dye will bleed into your finish and onto your brush. As far as a supplier - try woodworker's supply, they have 75 water based colors, over 40 alcohol based colors and over 40 oil based colors. The phone number is 1-800-645-9292, call and ask for a free aniline color chart, they will mail you one right out to you. They also have a web site, but I have never been - the address is: woodworker.com

   Lots of luck,

   Birdseyeman

1. 
   Biscardi | Jul 15, 2002 01:26am | #5

   I am new to analine stains. A friend recently suggested I spray some.I don't have a spray outfit so on his suggestion I bought a Preval Spray apparatus from Woodcraft. It only cost about $11 and it worked wonderfully. I don't usually plug products but this is really nice. It allows you to spray any liquid in a fine mist. It seems much more even than he standard aerosol cans I bet it would solve the uneveness in your stain application.

   Franj

4. 
   Paul_Snyder | Jul 15, 2002 01:22am | #4

   This is the third try. I had to delete #5&6. Hopefully I'll get it right this time.

   There's a lot of good dyes out there. Woodfinishsupply.com sells Behlen NGR dyes (premixed alcohol based) and their own water and alcohol based dye concentrates (I use these quite a bit). Their catalogue has a chart for mixing a wide variety of different wood tone colors from their concentrate colors (red, yellow, blue, and brown). You can use these dyes as the base color for your finish and add them to your clear coats for use as a toner (as long as the dye is compatible with your clear coat material). For example, you can use water-based dyes in water-based finishes or NGR dyes (alcohol) in shellac. The added color layer in completely transparent and adds a depth to the finish that is really nice.

   Dyes made using metallized salt dyes are the most resistant to fading. Behlen, woodfinishsupply.com, homesteadfinishing.com, and Mohawk are among the suppliers that use metallized dye salts. The dyes from homestead can be mixed with water or alcohol. You'd have to check with the other suppliers to see if they also use the fade resistant metallized salt dyes (I'm only familiar with these brands).

   When you apply dye, ordinarily you do want to apply it to the entire surface quickly and wet to avoid it coloring sporadic spots more deeply than the surrounding area. If you try to apply it neatly, like with a brush, you will get lap marks and drip spots. Wood like maple, that is prone to blotching, will still blotch if you apply the dye very wet. To apply dye to woods prone to blotching, the best method is to apply it by spraying light, wet coats. Three light coats works for me. The lighter the dye color, the less obvious blotching will be. You can use this to your advantage by dyeing the wood a light color, applying a very thin coat of oil, sealing, then applying a darker glaze stain to get great depth and figure AND even, blotch free coloring.

   Here's a link to an article on dyes that has some good info on dyes- click on the blue words -> Using Dyes. Notice in the article that they recommend applying the dye, very wet, three times for ultimate saturation and fade resistance. This works well only on woods that do not blotch. Also, please note that multiple applications of the same color dye, when applied very wet, do NOT make the color darker. Once the wood is thoroughly dyed, if you want a darker color you have to use a darker dye. This is one of the great advantages of dyes, you can adjust the color a number of times without obscuring the grain or having to strip the old color off. If the dye is too dark, you can use the solvent (water or alcohol in most cases) and lighten the color somewhat.

   Here's an article Jeff Jewitt wrote on coloring maple to reproduce an early american finish. He starts with dye, and then uses a thin coat of oil to bring out the color of the dye and the grain of the wood. Then he seals this and applies a coat of glazing stain. This multi-step coloring process is the key to a beautiful, "high-end" finish.-> Early American Maple. Jeff has a similar article in the latest issue of FWW that's a little different but also makes a wonderful finish.

   Here's an article that has pictures of the finisher spraying the dye (he uses two coats, each a different color), followed by a wiping stain. Again, by "building the color", you can get a deep, beautiful finish. -> Spraying Dye.

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

   
   

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   Edited 7/14/2002 6:46:37 PM ET by Paul

5. 
   BG | Jul 15, 2002 01:42pm | #6

   Jase,

   I am new to the water based dyes also.  I found it a waste of money to buy the premixed stuff and strongly suggest you go with the base colors and mix your own (note the mix and attach to the plastic container).

   I also noted that when it went on it looked wonderfull and as it dried it looked too red.  My warterlux finish seemed to lift some of the stain and brought back the first look..so all was fine.

   As has been suggested, I hit the piece three times with plain water and sanded with 400 grit before I stained.  It may be my imagination but the 400 grit seems to help the blotching.  Lastly, on the underside I experimented with scraping out a scratch and reapplying the stain...did not work..the scraper compressed the wood too much I suspect.