Replies

1. 
   JDorn | Jun 10, 2003 04:24am | #1

   hehe I've been asking around alot about this as well, I just don't have the green light from wife to go ahead and proceed. 

   After all my looking around I think i've settled on a 3 HP Jet Xacta Saw + a Delta Mobile Base + the Jet roller outfeed table that hinges off the back of the saw which would run me about 1900 + tax locally and would come with a free Bosch 2.25 horse router for the router table in the extension wing of the saw. 

   From what i've garnered from here and the guys at my local hardwood store they seem to like the saw a little better than the Unisaw they carry in store, and the only thing they like more is a PM 66 which comes with another big price bump.

   JD

1. 
   thebear | Jun 10, 2003 02:17pm | #6

   Thanks JD.  I will have to consider looking at Jet also given what I have read in Tida stream and the choice you made.  I always like hearing from folks that use the equipment as word of mouth is always the best experience for me.

2. 
   alanplanesaw | Jun 10, 2003 04:35am | #2

   I was in a similar position about 4 years ago.  (My wife travels the craft show circuit selling picture frames she has made from lumber bought at the sawmill and then jointed, planed, rabbetted, etc.)  After some study, I bought a General from Wilke Machinery.  A good friend, a professional woodworker, also uses a General in his cabinet shop.  Probably can't go far wrong with what you are considering.

   Alan - planesaw

1. 
   thebear | Jun 10, 2003 02:14pm | #5

   Thanks for the response Alan.  I need to take a look at General as I saw another stream asking the same thing I did from Tida.  Glad to hear about the General being used in a pro shop.  This is the kind of responses I like to hear as they help with this difficult decision.

3. 
   jimmyk | Jun 10, 2003 04:44am | #3

   This question has been asked dozens of times in this forum. The answer is always the General 10" left tilt cabinet saw.

1. 
   thebear | Jun 10, 2003 02:09pm | #4

   Thanks Molten,

   I am new to this forum and didn't know how to navigate it.  However, I now see that there is a stream going with Tida that I can just grab on to.  This should help me with my choice.

1. 
   BG | Jun 10, 2003 06:00pm | #9

   Bear,

   With that price range..wow..ya gotta look at a Northfield ...what a terrible dilemma....lol.  Personally, the powermatic or Delta will do and spend the rest on extras..like Inca thing...and blades...tables...

2. 
   JeffKurtz | Jun 10, 2003 07:15pm | #10

   Now that's a good one - suggest there's agreement on this forum about any thing.  Funniest thing I've heard in a long time!

1. 
   jimmyk | Jun 10, 2003 07:31pm | #11

   Have you ever used a General cabinet saw? Not General International, but General? I've used several Unisaws, an old Powermatic and General 350's & 550's, and I personally would never buy a Unisaw, (maybe a Powermatic but I heard they're going downhill). The  fit and finish, weight, power, accessories, everything is top notch on the General. Most in this forum that have used a General agree with me.

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Jun 10, 2003 10:19pm | #14

   I agree with you 100%.  The General is a fantastic machine.  My point, however, was that we, on this forum, will never agree on which machine is the "best".  Such is human nature, one of those visceral little quirks unique to our species which make us interesting, exasperating and funny.

1. 
   jimmyk | Jun 10, 2003 10:23pm | #15

   Wahahaha!!! I see your point now! Sorry about the argument. You're right, I should have worded it different because it's true that not everyone in the previous forums thought the General was the best. Wish I had the $$ to own one myself!

2. 
   thebear | Jun 11, 2003 12:17am | #16

   Yeah, getting agreement has not (so far) been my impression of this forum.  But then, I never expected that!  What a boring world we would live in if everyone thought exactly the same.

   What I was looking for was real world hands-on input from folks about the experience they have had with cabinet saws, customer service, etc.  It has been useful to hear what folks have to say.  But a little confusing too as my criteria and price range was so wide.  I am just trying to make the right "once-in-a-life-time" decision.  That is the hard part.

   So far, there has been general agreement that any saw I have considered so far is a good choice - Powermatic, Unisaw, Robland, Laguna, and now General.  Now I have to do the hard work and make the choice!

   Thanks all.  I find this forum enlightening and useful.

3. 
   user-135888 | Jun 11, 2003 06:20am | #22

   A piece of advise as far as the "Fences" go, I'd make sure the fence rails a designed to be replaced easily. There are a few that have gaps under the fence so you can get to the bolts that hold on the rails.  I Know the powermatic have this feature, Powermatic would also be my choice. I've used a general 350 and thinks it good, but I like Powermatics they are so smooth and sturdy(used also). 

   Goodluck

   john g

4. 
   JeffKurtz | Jun 11, 2003 01:36am | #20

    Ah, but you can afford a General!

    1. Buy a used Craftsman for $100 2. Add a new Baldor motor for $300 3. Motor mounts $50 4. Miter guage $50 5. Replace trunions with heavy duty equivalents at $350 6. Have new, heavy, top cast and machined for $500 7. Add Biesmeyer fence system - $350 8. Belts and pulleys - $100 9. Find a used cabinet for $10010. Green paint and stickers $20

   There - a new General cabinet saw from a used Craftsman for less than $2000 not including duct tape.  Not bad. 

5. 
   jimmyk | Jun 11, 2003 04:48am | #21

   hehe...right...

4. 
   JMartinsky | Jun 10, 2003 02:40pm | #7

   PM66 is my weapon of choice, although I would take a serious look at the "Sawstop" machine as well. It appears to be very similar to the PM66 with one significant difference: It has a blade stop safety system that seems to be outstanding. I think that their website is : http://www.sawtop.com. Check them out. That being said, I bought mine from amazon.com (PM66, 50" Beismeyer fence, 5hp single phase), for about $2100.00, free shipping and no sales tax. You can probably get a free router lift or something now. Forrest or Freud blades and you will all set for the next 100 years or so. While you're at it, you may want to consider some flowers for that wife of yours! Good Luck!

   John

1. 
   thebear | Jun 10, 2003 05:18pm | #8

   Thanks for the reply John.  I am leaning way over toward the PM 66 side as I look at different saws and read more from the Knots forum.

   How long have you had your PM 66?  Do you have any thing specific that I should know if I decide to buy one?

   Thanks,

   Dan

1. 
   JMartinsky | Jun 11, 2003 12:33am | #17

   I've had mine for two years and I haven't put a dent in it. I imagine that my son will end up with it if he is so inclined. (He is 3 now). If you want a mobile base, get it now and get a couple of friends together to help with the assembly because it is HEAVY. Beyond that, it just does its thing. I like that. I just ordered flowers for my wife, how about you? Good Luck!

   John

5. 
   Napie | Jun 10, 2003 08:01pm | #12

   I started with a combo machine, (Robland), and it served me very well for about seven years.  When I got more space, I went through the used market and equiped my shop VERY well for less than you have budgeted for just the saw.

   I might look close at the Laguna TS, I saw one at a show and was impressed, it's big and powerful.

   In the end, though, I got a used, (early '60's), 5 hp unisaw, completely rebuilt, for $900, added $350 for a fence and it is great. That would leave you about $5K for LOTS of other stuff, (the whole LN catalog?)

1. 
   jimmyk | Jun 10, 2003 08:03pm | #13

   Hey napie, I wrote to you about a week ago and you never responded. Where are you in MI? I'm in Walled Lake.

1. 
   Napie | Jun 11, 2003 05:23pm | #28

   Brandon Township, (near Ortonville).

6. 
   WorkshopJon | Jun 11, 2003 12:48am | #18

   "I always thought I would go buy a Delta Unisaw as this was THE saw to own according to what I heard for the last 30 years or so.  Now I hear that the Powermatic 66 is the way to go."

   Bear,

   They're both good saws, though I've heard that a lot of Delta stuff is made overseas now. Whatever you choose, get the Bissy fence, and if you have the room, 52" fence and table boards. Personally (I have a Delta, 7 years old and made in the USA, great saw) I'd go with whichever is cheapest and spend the difference on an assortment of GOOD blades.

   Jon

1. 
   thebear | Jun 11, 2003 08:10pm | #29

   Thanks for the input on the Bissemeyer fence.  This is the kind of help I am looking for.  I realize that being in a position such as I am where I can spend a rather large amount of money (by the way, I saved $2500 of this from putting spare change around the house into a very large jar over the last 7 years) on a saw has its pros and cons.  I get a great saw BUT I have to make a decision.  However, I only want to spend as much money as I need to get a saw that will take me to the grave.

   As I stated earlier, and I tend to disagree with some here - ruh-roh, I have owned a Craftsman table saw for 17 years.  It worked fine for remodeling the houses and such.  Even a little cabinet work.  But, it doesn't cut repeatably well and I am constantly having to saw pieces again, it doesn't have enough power for any thing other than pine, there is no way to handle the dust collection and even after spending lots of time trying to keep it tuned up it won't stay aligned.  Good blades (Forrest or Frued) help a lot but there is nothing you can do to make this saw run and cut the same way a cabinet saw does.  They just aren't made the same.

   One thing that is driving me toward the PM 66 is the response from this forum.  Still, I looked at the General and this seems like a nice machine also.

1. 
   OB | Jun 12, 2003 04:42am | #30

   You are in the same boat as the rest of us that have had to save for  long time to purchase a tool (better to purchase several real good tools for that money then 1 super outstanding tool) you deserve to purchase a real good saw at a reasonable price & the G1023SL is the second generation of the right tilt G1023 & is a left tilt saw. Everything John Hebert @   http://www.cjohnhebert.com/Grizzly%201023.htm says about his saw goes & then some for the G1023SL. You don't have to have a big named expensive saw to have a real fine saw. Read the rest of Johns site he is a professional that uses his tools & talent all the time for a living. Also go to this site & ask what the G1023 & G1023SL owners think of their saws  http://theoak.com/cgi-bin/tools1/tools1.pl.I have a number of Grizzly tools & a friend has a shop full of Grizzly tools  that we both do a lot of work with.=============================================================

2. 
   Andrew | Jun 12, 2003 05:47am | #31

   My advice to you is either get a General 350 (I have one and love it) or look into some of the older used saws. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING can compare to some of the old solid iron giants such as Northfield and Oliver. I would compare the feeling a woodworker gets when using one to the feeling you would have driving a Ferrari. A nice used slider could also be had for under 6 G's, and if you work with a fair amount of plywood they are wonderful. SCM and Altendorf are a few names to look for. If you can, get a real industrial saw with at least a 14" blade, as there is an unexplainable joy in using a saw with such raw power that makes every cut seem absolutely effortless (insert Tim Allen grunt here)

   Andrew

7. 
   10fingers | Jun 11, 2003 01:02am | #19

   Hello Bear,

   I envy your position of looking for whatever you want.  Check out EBAY for tablesaws.  They usually have some monster 12-16" saws at a reasonable price.  Not too long ago, there was a massive saw with two blades.   Only one blade could be exposed at a time.  You could have a rip and a crosscut saw and not have to change blades.  There have been some good deals on 20" bandsaws such as Northfield lately on EBAY also.   When my wife told me to spend (She said I could spend) $500 on tools, I had a hard time deciding what I really wanted.

   Have fun looking & shopping,

   Chuck

8. 
   OB | Jun 11, 2003 08:31am | #23

   I see a lot of people here telling other people to buy expensive saws with their money. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

   You can get a Grizzly G1023 left tilt saw there are 2 models one with a 26" to the right of the rails but can be changed to 30" or even 36" to the right of the blade for $895 + $75 shipping, or  54" to the right for $1125 + $75 shipping. This saw is a good quality saw & you'll have money left over to purchase another piece of equipment.

    Don't get me wrong I would like to have a PM66 or other expensive saw but I realize when it's all over & done with the wood won't know the difference which saw it was cut on, as long as it is cut straight & has nice clean cut square edges that’s all that matters.

    Unless your going to stamp all you projects with a sign (the material for this furniture was cut on a PM66 or Delta Unisaw) who cares. Unless you’re trying to impress someone with the piece of equipment you have setting in your shop.

   I don't recommend Craftsman tools now days, but my father made thousands of dollars on a 1955 10 Craftsman contractors saw &I'll bet you couldn't tell the difference between his cabinets & the ones made using a PM 66 or Unisaw.

    

   The point is you don't have to spend big dollars to get good equipment unless you have money to burn & want to impress someone. Yes I like those high dollar tools but I'm not impressed when I see them in a hobby shop & the person only has 1 or 2 high prices tools but then has to scrimp & gets the bottom of the barrel tools  for the rest of their shop needs because they spent top dollar on 1 or 2 tools & have to suffer because of the Cadillac tool mentality.

   Rant off.

    

1. 
   jimmyk | Jun 11, 2003 02:12pm | #24

   But his original post clearly said: "I am looking for real world input from folks on what saw to own if you have anywhere from $2000 to $6000 to spend."

1. 
   OB | Jun 11, 2003 04:24pm | #25

   I guess I missed that but that kind of money isn't nessary to get a real good saw & he can have more tools for his shop with that kind of money.

   I guess I've never had that kind of money to throw away & tend to see how far I can make a dollar go instead of foolishly trying to see how much I can spend on one tool.

    I've always found it a challange to see how much tool I can get for a few dollars.

   Now if someone would give me $6000 to play with I could have quite a few tools in my shop & they all would be good quality workable tools. I'd have a lot of fun using them.

   In fact I have figured out how to build a small 30x40 shop leagally for not much more than that with no building permit in the area where I live.

   Edited 6/11/2003 9:28:45 AM ET by Bart

1. 
   jimmyk | Jun 11, 2003 04:54pm | #27

   I agree completly, with 6k you could get the Grizz. cabinet saw, awesome new 8" longbed jointer, and a big planer or bandsaw! But he wanted an expensive saw.

9. 
   rslatm | Jun 11, 2003 04:48pm | #26

   In my opinion of 30 years woodworking and machine repair all those saws are so close it doesn't really make a difference. I'd go for the less expensive one. Since you  have up to $6,000 a slider would the way to go but for a home woodworker I'd go with a Rojek probably and still pocket some money. I still think that the saw is only part of the equation. The operator is the bigger one.  I've seen a few posts from a guy in Australia who makes incredible stuff with a Ryobi B3000 which proves my point.  Ever seen any pictures of those folks in Asia or South America who are lucky to have a saw arbor mounted under a piece of plywood and produce spectacular work??!

   http://www.woodworking.org/Exchange/Forum2/HTML/008137.html