Replies

1. 
   Napie | Jul 07, 2008 10:03pm | #1

   I did the same with an old #4C, what a difference!  I found the blade to very flat however and not requiring much work at all.

2. 
   BOBABEUI | Jul 07, 2008 10:25pm | #2

   Also kind of suprised that you found the backs not really flat, I have 4 L-N planes (currently) and the back of the blades were dead on, I just needed to polish them with a finer stone.

   I would describe A-2 steel as tough, not rock hard like Japanese tool steel (white). The A-2's toughness makes it a challenge to sharpen, since it has has such good wear resistance.

   Enjoy

1. 
   nboucher | Jul 07, 2008 11:24pm | #3

   I was surprised that the blade wasn't flatter as well. But when I stoned the back of the blade, the scratch pattern was consistent for only about half the area just below the blade. If you drew a diagonal line from the edge halfway across over to the right side about a quarter inch below the edge, the area above it stayed smooth. I had to work it on the stone until the scratch pattern went all the way across.Anyone else have a similar experience? I'm eager to work on the other blade I bought to see if it's flatter.Norman

1. 
   lwilliams | Jul 08, 2008 02:14am | #4

   "Flat" is relative. How flat are your stones? What kind of stones do you use and what's your procedure and schedule for flattening your stones?

1. 
   9619 | Jul 08, 2008 02:34am | #5

   I use four diamond stones followed by an ultrafine ceramic stone for flattening backs and sharpening chisels and plane blades. I checked my stones for flatness by putting up a high quality straight edge against them in a number of positions. I didn't notice any light coming under. What do you recommend?
   Thanks,
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   lwilliams | Jul 08, 2008 03:42am | #7

   Mel,As long as the stones used are reasonably flat and all have the same topography, it may not matter at all. The reason for flat is that flat is repeatable and let's one avoid spending their honing time making their tool conform to various stones that don't agree with each other. Checking for straight in various positions on the stone and for wind across the diagonals is what I would suggest.Even as careful as I am to maintain flattness, simply because it saves a lot of honing time, I wouldn't expect my stones to agree with Lie-Nielsen's or anyone else's stones. You don't have to be off by much to make a lot of extra work, as the original poster said. My impression on my visits to LN was that they're very careful with their tolerances but it's been a long time since I sharpened one of their stock irons. My most recent plane purchases from them specified irons other than their normal stock. I'm not going to sit here and say what I asked for because my orders have been based on my own personal preferences. I don't think others would necessarily benefit from or even want the same things I do. I can tell you that the irons I got were exactly what I requested but not finished to the level I see in their normal production. Being a difficult customer comes at a price and I'm willing to deal with that to get what I want.

2. 
   9619 | Jul 08, 2008 05:17am | #8

   Larry,
   I value your advice, and I thank you for it.
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

3. 
   nboucher | Jul 08, 2008 03:46pm | #11

   Larry, I also greatly value your experience and advice. To be clear: whenever I get a new blade, or am restoring an old plane, I routinely work the back of the blade on my coarse Norton waterstone until I generate an even scratch pattern. With these Lie-Nielsen blades, however, the back near the edge comes nice and polished, so I'm hesitant to fool with them too much. But my flattened stone told me it was a bit off. What I understand from your post to Mel is that it may have been flat at LN's shop, but a slight variation in stones might have made it appear not perfectly flat on my stone. Is that correct? I'm also assuming that because I'll be continually sharpening these blades on my stones, I should take the time to get the backs flat on these stones, even if it means messing up that nice glossy lapping that LN put on it. Is that correct, or is not worth the bother? I'm a bit confused on this. Most of the plane blades I have are Stanley originals, so they were pretty far off. But I have two LA block planes and a scrub plane from LN , and those blades generated a nice scratch pattern right away, which makes me think this one blade may have been a fluke.Thanks again for taking the time to advise.
   Norman

4. 
   lwilliams | Jul 08, 2008 08:58pm | #12

   Norman,Get the backs to agree with your stones. The goal of this is to minimize your honing time. If your stones agree and your tools match your stones sharpening takes only seconds.

5. 
   nboucher | Jul 08, 2008 09:49pm | #13

   Thanks, Larry. Will do.

2. 
   nboucher | Jul 08, 2008 03:39am | #6

   I'm confident about my stones. I use Norton waterstones, flatten them every 10 minutes or so, and am constantly checking them with a reliable straight edge. For flattening the backs, I only worry about the half-inch or so back from the edge. I basically use the David Charlesworth method, laying the back of the blade across the stone and then running it up and down the stone, beginning with the bevel end slightly off and working in about a third of the way across the stone, keeping good pressure just behind the bevel. Then I pull the blade onto the stone, again about a third of the way across, moving gradually up and down the stone, looking for an even pattern of scratches parallel to the sides of the blade. With both motions, I'll work both outer thirds of the stone, then check for flatness and freshen the surface with a diamond stone.My results have always been good, so I was surprised that a corner of this blade seemed a tad lower than the rest.

   Edited 7/7/2008 8:41 pm ET by nboucher

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Jul 08, 2008 09:38am | #9

   Norman,

   As far as I know, all their blades are lapped flat on the back.  However, I have heard a similar story regarding a set of their chisels.  I suspect that these are isolated cases, however.  As a point of clarification, these are actual Lie Neilsen blades, not just blades sold by Lie Neilsen, right?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   nboucher | Jul 08, 2008 03:27pm | #10

   Chris, yes, they have the Lie Nielsen logo on them. They are the ones LN sells as Stanley replacement blades. I unwrapped the second blade I bought last night, and although I didn't have time to stone it, I did put a straight edge on it just back from the edge and it looks good. I wonder whether I should bother generating a scratch pattern to test it or stop obsessing already and just hone the thing. What do you and Larry think?Norman

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Jul 09, 2008 03:15am | #14

   Norman,

   My guess is that the first blade is an anomaly.  If you're a purist, you might want to polish the back of the blade on your 8000x stone.  Otherwise, hone it and put it to use.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

2. 
   nboucher | Jul 09, 2008 04:26pm | #15

   Thanks, Chris. I'm a purist about the backs, because I only have to do them once and never have to think about them again. In general, though, I want to be working wood, not steel. :-)Norman

3. 
   nboucher | Jul 14, 2008 05:09pm | #16

   That first blade was indeed a fluke. Over the weekend, I took out the second LN blade I'd bought, this one for my Stanley #4, and after only a few passes on my coarse stone, I could see the back was flat. I guess the moral of the story is that it's always good to check; even the best manufacturers aren't perfect.Norman

4. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 16, 2008 03:23am | #17

   What a Difference a Blade Makes..  LOL

   I was wondering if it took you '24 Little Hours' to figgure that out?

5. 
   nboucher | Jul 16, 2008 05:55pm | #18

   I'm telling ya, there's a rainbow before me. Seriously, I'm sure I'll soon have saved 24 hours of planing and sharpening time. Got some bird's eye maple on deck.Norman

6. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 16, 2008 07:37pm | #19

   I once had some STUNNING bird's eye maple. I cut into slices. It was beautiful BUT...

   I do not have any 'quality' planes except for my old Stanley/Bailey.. I always wondered if a really good plane would have worked with that wood. I mostly use card scrapers and even they did not work on that wood. The little 'eyes' would pop out in some places. Even very fine grit sandpaper would make them pop out.. Strange?  The only way I saved that pile of wood was to soak it with Shellac..

   All turned out well for the project. However, I could not stain it like I wanted with all that Shellac holding all those 'eyes' in place...

7. 
   xmike | Jul 17, 2008 02:48am | #20

   I think that there is much variation in figured maple, but the stuff that I'm presently working with responds nicely to a LV BUS at 50 degrees (38 +12), but not to my cabinet scrapers or scraper plane. Someone suggested wetting the surface with either water, alcohol, or mineral spirits before planning, and I found that it was good advice - the wood behaved much better in that state.One thing that surprises me, however, is how brittle the figured maple that I have is. I don't know if this is characteristic of all figured maple or just the batch that I have. My batch is quite hard, but is not particularly tough or resistant to breaking - it doesn't bend - it resists and then shatters. Is this typical, do you suppose?