Replies

1. 
   jako17 | Aug 30, 2006 02:05pm | #1

   Thanks for sharing your discovery ,I will be sure to incorperate it into my next piece of cabinetry or even turned bowl.I find that a french polish finish will work over a trace of wax anyway so why  go wax free!!!!!!!!!  ROFL

2. 
   Mike&L | Aug 30, 2006 02:16pm | #2

   Well, we should probably be over on the Fine Homebuilding site, but here's my 2 cents worth, anyway.

   It looks like a great seal.  I use the heavy duty (extra wax) seal with the plastic center piece to be sure that the seal aligns whenever I replace a toilet, but the waxless seal should do fine.

   The real problem usually isn't with the wax or waxless seal, but with the toilet flange in the floor.  If it sits too high, the the toilet wants to rock on the flange rather than sit on the floor.  This breaks the seal over time.  This is a very common problem - one that rots a LOT of bathroom floors, and ruins it's share of lower room ceilings as well.

   You can sort of fix the problem when you replace the seal by using toilet wedges between the porcelain bottom of the toilet and the floor to support the toilet over the flange and prevent the toilet from rocking and breaking the seal.  If you go this route, put a dab of RTV on each of the wedges (use 4 spaced evenly around the base) or one will inevitably work loose and let the flushinglinger toilet rock again.

   To permanently fix the problem, fix the flange by lowering it (usually a very inconvenient 1/4 or 1/8 inch) and make sure that the flange is sealed to the soil pipe.  Then use a new wax or waxless seal and reinstall the toilet (after you repair the rotten floor, should this problem have been festering for a few years).  That usually permanently cures the dreaded leaking toilet.

   Mike

1. 
   Mike&L | Aug 30, 2006 04:48pm | #3

   Actually, whilst shaving, I thought of the OTHER reason that the wax seal fails.

   When the person installing the toilet misses the holes in the toilet base with the hold down bolts, and sets it partially down on the flange, and then picks it back up again, and resets it down, this time alligned with the bolts..

   This mis-aligns and mis-seats and breaks the seal.  Every time.  Let me repeat that.  Every time.

   You are supposed to pick the toilet up, clean off the old seal, put a new seal in place, and set the toilet back down squarely on the bolts without missing the holes in the toilet base. 

   That's a real pain, so Many, many folks don't clean off the spoiled seal and replace it with a fresh one. ("Why, in 35 years of plumbing, I have NEVER...etc, etc, etc")

   TO THAT END, the waxless seal is a remedy for that  malady.

3. 
   JohnWW | Aug 30, 2006 06:30pm | #4

   The Fernco seal is attached to the bottom of the bowl assembly with a peel off adhesive seal, so the underside of the base around the drain must be flat and smoothly glazed for the seal to attach properly.  A new toilet I installed just a few months ago had a raised rib across that area and the Fernco seal couldn't be used.

   I would second someone else's comment that a wax seal works perfectly when properly installed against a correctly positioned flange.  I don't know that the Fernco seal is any less tolerant of bad installation.

   John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine

1. 
   mudman | Aug 30, 2006 07:26pm | #5

   John got it right in my eyes. I have never seen the underside of a toilet that looked like I could trust tape to work on, new or previously installed. Eventually that tape will fail, just as eventually the wax will fail. carefull and knowledgeable installation is the key factor.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   Mike&L | Aug 30, 2006 10:38pm | #6

   Yep, I'd stick with wax.  One last thing that I thought of (I'm a very heavy thinker, today).  The books say never to caulk the base of a toilet because if/when it leaks, you want to know that it is leaking and not seal the leak in so that it will rot the floor and/or run out onto your ceiling below. 

   That said, we all caulk the toilet 'cause our wives tell us to.

   So, when you do, be sure to leave about an inch clear of caulk in the back so that when/if it leaks, it'll run out onto the floor by the toilet and make a mess, and your wife'll call you and say "I thought you fixed this toilet!" (even though that was 12 years ago)", and you can then fix the seal again BEFORE it ruins the ceiling downstairs, again.

   Isn't being handy grand?

   Mike D