Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 14, 2002 07:01pm | #1

   Well, since no one's responded yet, I'll see if I can help.  First of all, I'm a bit confused -- your title says "water spotted cabinets" which I took to mean that you had white spots from water exposure, but your message seems to indicate only that the finish is worn through.  These are two very different situations.  Could you clarify?

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Grainchaser | Sep 15, 2002 04:27am | #3

   Thanks for responding, forest_girl.

   Yes, the finish is worn through, sorry for the confusing title.

   gc

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 15, 2002 07:31am | #5

   Hi GC, if I'm interpreting Rich's post correctly, he's talking about burn-in sticks.  These are kind of specialty items, and take (from what I've heard) a fair amount of experience to use correctly.  Maybe Rich'll come back and give us a short seminar.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   RSRose | Sep 15, 2002 10:48am | #6

   Forest Girl and Grainmaker,

   Nope, no seminar. As I said, it will be hard to touch up these spots so that they look like the surrounding wood. But somewone who has had a lot of experience can do it.

   Yes, they are also called burn-in sticks. If you watch a pro, your project will take him or her literally seconds to do. But you'll need to practice many hours to learn to do it just right. It takes a bit of experience to do it right.

   You can get "Burn-In Fill Sticks" from Woodcraft (www.woodcraft.com). They also sell an electric burn-in knife. Not that I consider myself a professional refinisher (I prefer to put a finish on from beginning to end - matching a surrounding area is a bit of a stretch) but I have always used a heated screwdriver blade to do this. You could practice on a less conspicuous spot first.

   Woodcraft also sells "Touch Up Sticks" which are wax. They can hide such spots, but the fix is not as lasting as shellac alone or shellac followed by spray lacquer. And you can get about the same results with shoe polish.

   Rich

2. 
   RSRose | Sep 14, 2002 11:34pm | #2

   Grainchaser,

   The probability is very high that the finish is sprayed nitrocellulose laquer. Is the wood stained? Is the bare wood lighter than the wood under sound finish?

   If you have no refinishing experience, it's unlikely that you'll get the repair to invisibly blend into the surrounding areas. A pro can.

   I'm assuming that the oak is stained, because the opposite is so unlikely in those kinds of cabinets. A shellac stick of the proper color can bring the color back. It may even look completely finished at that point. But the shellac won't be as water protective as the lacquer. You might want to use a spray lacquer such as Krylon to complete the job.

   Rich

1. 
   Grainchaser | Sep 15, 2002 04:37am | #4

   Rich,

   Thanks for the reply.

   You sound like you know what you're talking about! The oak does not seem to be stained, but the bare areas do appear just a bit lighter in color. The clear finish which doesn't hide any of the wood's beauty is what I really like about the cabinets. 

   Haven't heard of a shellac stick.  Are they usually stocked in full-service hardware stores?

   gc

3. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 15, 2002 05:33pm | #7

   To repair the finish, first test the finish to see what it is. Use a q-tip to place a drop of lacquer thinner on a spot that's not in plain view (for example, the back of a door). If the lacquer thinner causes the finish to get soft and gummy in seconds, the finish is lacquer. If it doesn't, the finish is a more durable finish (a catalyzed finish or varnish). Knowing what the finish is tells you what to put over the finish later.

   If the finish is a more durable finish (not lacquer), wet a spot on the back of the door with mineral spirits (MS) or naptha and let it evaporate. See if the spot turns milky white. If it doesn't, the first step in the repair is to "wash" the areas you plan to repair with the MS or naptha to remove any greasy grime. Use a good supply of clean rags (Scott box of rags works for me).

   After this first cleaning, use a small artists' paint brush and dewaxed shellac to seal the bare spots in the wood. Zinnser "Seal Coat" dewaxed blond shellac will work well for this (available at paint and hardware stores). You can apply more than one coat of the shellac if needed, sanding very lightly bewteen coats with 400 grit and a sanding block to build the finish level with the surrounding finish (fill the small "crater").

   Once the bare spots are sealed and protected from water, clean the cabinets again with TSP and water (or a substitute - see the article "Saving the Finish").

   Now you want to prepare the surface for a new coat or two of finish. Sand the existing finish lightly with 320 grit sandpaper to dull the shine. Sand in the direction of the grain. Do not sand more than is needed to remove the top surface of the finish - just enough to dull the finish.

   If the finish is lacquer, brush or spray on a new coat. One coat should be all you really need, but you can apply another if you want.

   If the finish was a more durable finish than lacquer, do a test on a small area using varnish or poly. Apply the poly/varnish to a small patch and let it dry. Check to make sure it doesn't cause the old finish to bubble or turn milky white. If there are no problems, sand the test patch lightly until dull and give the cabinets a coat of the varnish/poly. Again, a second coat is optional.

   At this point, the cabinets should look new.

   Some references for repair procedures are listed below;

   "How to Fix Damaged Finishes," Jeff Jewitt - http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00084.asp

   "Saving the Finish," Jeff Jewitt - http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/savingfinish.htm

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

4. 
   RW | Sep 15, 2002 05:57pm | #8

   But if the cabinets are not stained and the finish is nitrocellulose lacquer, the minor color variation seen between bare and finished is the result of the lacquer "pulling color" - or the difference in appearance between bare wood and wood with the finish on it. And sanding would be something of a moot point, wouldn't it, since lacquer is its own solvent and multiple coats will bond to each other, yes? I'd almost think that sealing the bare areas with some other product only leads to the potential for visible blotches when the new finish goes on. If the cabinets are really not stained and the finish is only the lacquer, a good cleaning and new lacquer ought to cure what ails ya.

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 16, 2002 03:16am | #9

   "And sanding would be something of a moot point, wouldn't it, since lacquer is its own solvent and multiple coats will bond to each other, yes?"

   Lacquer will dissolve into the old coat (most of the time) but I do a light sanding to blend out rubs, smudges, light scratches, and make the entire surface the same texture before applying a new coat. That way, the entire surface looks "new" when complete. If it seems too much trouble, there may not be any problem skipping the light sanding.

   "I'd almost think that sealing the bare areas with some other product only leads to the potential for visible blotches when the new finish goes on."

   Shellac is recommended due to its ability to adhere to problem areas on wood and isolate the problem(s) from the following topcoats. If the finish has peeled in spots, there may be a simple failure or there may be something in the wood - don't know. The wood has been bare which makes it more likely the wood is contaminated.

   Shellac colors wood like lacquer - they both bring out the grain and figure very well. If the shellac colors the wood differently than the surrounding aged lacquer, I would add a little amber dye to the shellac to match the yellowing that takes place in lacquer over time.Paul

   F'burg, VA

1. 
   Grainchaser | Sep 16, 2002 03:59am | #10

   Paul and all,  You all have been VERY helpfull and have given me some real background from which I can tackle my problem (really appreciate the links!). Now I just need to make the time when I'm not working my 1 and 1/2 jobs to get on it.

   Hope to be letting you know soon how it came out.    gc