Replies

1. 
   webdiva20 | Mar 27, 2007 09:20pm | #1

   Am I making this too complex? Is there any way to bond the veneer straight onto the melamine?

   Not necessarily and yes.

   Since you are using beech, I would think you'd be able to purchase a 1/4" beech sheet good instead of just the veneer itself. If you were using some more rare type of wood, you might have to make your own 1/4" veneer as you were planning, but this is a fairly common wood and should be available in that size. Then again, I haven't been looking at materials like this for some time, so maybe I am mistaken.

   If it isn't available where you live, or if you already have the veneer sheets and want to go this route, you can apply the veneer directly to the melamine.

   Make sure you rough sand the melamine surface you want to bond the veneer to. You shouldn't sand all the melamine off, but make sure it has a reasonable tooth for the glue to attach to. Use 100 or 120 grit sandpaper, and you should be fine. Also, if you have holes from pin nails or screws, use some bondo to fill those spots in and sand them flush after the bondo has dried.

   The only glue I ever used when I used this process was a contact cement. The shop I worked at used a commercial brand, the name of which I cannot remember (sorry). But the process is the same for most contact cements: make sure the two surfaces you wish to bond are clean of dust or other particles; spray both surfaces with the glue; let sit until dry to the touch; carefully put the two pieces together, avoiding air bubbles

   This last step is, of course, the hardest part, especially since your pieces are pretty large. One way to tackle it is to cut strips of wood (or melamine or plywood - whatever you have sitting around as scrap) stickers long enough to lay across your melamine. For instance, cut a bunch of pieces that are 28" long by maybe 1" wide, and lay them across the 24" width of your pieces. Gently lay your prepped veneer over those, being careful not to let the veneer make contact with the melamine. Starting at one end, press the veneer to the melamine. Use a roller to make sure you have good contact and to get rid of any air bubbles. Once you get close to the first sticker, pull it out and continue to press the veneer to the melamine. Repeat.

   Some tips:

   1) if possible, cut your veneer larger than the final melamine piece. This gives you a bit of "fudge factor" to work with. Once it's attached, place the veneer side face down on a scrap piece of MDF or wood and use a sharp utility knife to trim off the excess.

   2) apply the veneer to the substrate so that you are going "against the grain". This might be obvious once you unroll the veneer since it only rolls up in one direction. If you try to roll it up "with the grain", the veneer is apt to break. This might mean that you need 50" stickers, depending on which way the grain is running on your particular piece.

   3) it's really helpful to have a second set of hands while doing this. If you have someone who can assist to help lay the veneer down on top of the stickers and pull the stickers, that can be helpful.

   4) if things do go haywire and you realize the veneer isn't laying down as you need it to, it is possible to remove it from the melamine by drizzling thinner between the veneer and the melamine and carefully pulling the two apart. Then let both pieces dry thoroughly and start over. Of course, there are things that can go wrong at this point too (too much thinner swells the melamine, your veneer rips and is unrepairable, etc), and the aim is to avoid doing this, but it is possible.

   If you do want to apply the veneer to a 1/4" substrate, I would strongly recommend applying veneer to the opposite side of the substrate as well. It doesn't have to be beech, you can purchase a less expensive veneer, but it will help prevent movement of the substrate.

   In my kitchen I ended up having to use a 1/4" panel on one of my cabinet sides. To attach the panel to the cabinet, I simply pin nailed the two together (no glue), and filled the holes with oil-based putty. Granted, I do have plans in the future to replace this particular panel, so I wasn't too concerned about having pin nail holes, but this panel has survived 2 years of rental property abuse and still looks fabulous.

   Hope this helps,
   Laura

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   Edited 3/27/2007 2:21 pm ET by webdiva20

   
   

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   Edited 3/27/2007 2:26 pm ET by webdiva20

2. 
   DonStephan | Mar 28, 2007 03:26am | #2

   Contact cement is a relatively "soft" adhesive. I was asked a few years ago to repair some melamine cabinets that had cherry veneer applied to the end panel with contact cement. Within a month of installation the veneer had large bubbles from contact cement failure. (I referred the homeowner back to the cabinet installer rather than get into the middle of a tremendous mess and fight.)

   Veneering both the show and back faces of MDF or plywood (I prefer MDF due to plywood voids and surface unevenness) is sound approach but my preference is for a rigid glue such as two part urea formaldehyde (Unibond and Pro-Glue are the two brands I have used). With curved cauls and extra layers of MDF evening the pressure on the veneer, this can be pressed with hand clamps although a vacuum bag is much more convenient. I had one very bad experience with PVA and iron gluing veneer, and wouldn't take that risk again. That's your choice.

   If you use MDF 3/8" thick I think you could use screws through the melamine to reliably bond the veneered panel to a melamine surface. If you roughen the melamine surface some glues might get enough "bite".

1. 
   PeterThomson | Mar 29, 2007 07:14pm | #3

   Thank you Webdiva20 and Don, very helpful advice!  The cabinets were installed by others previously (I'm just "improving" them!) so veneer to 3/8" MDF feels like the best way to go.  I checked after reading Webdiva20's post and can't get 1/4" beech in my area.  Too bad, would have been a quick and painless solution.

   I'll do some more research on the two part urea glues and make sure I do some test pieces before starting.  Thanks again for your help--I've been reading as much as I can about veneering, but experienced advice is always worth its weight in gold!

   Cheers,

   Peter