I am from Iowa. The local store like Home Depot, Lowes, Menards carry veneer plywood but the quality is so poor. The veneer is so thin you can sand right through. The woodworking store, Woodsmith, has a better quality but the veneer is still thin. Where do you all purchase your veneer plywood?
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Replies
What little I buy comes from an outfit that largely caters to small cabinetmakers.
Where are you located?
Plywood face veneers are always thin. There's just no getting around that fact.
Where are you located? Your best bet is probably a vendor that supplies commercial kitchen-cabinet shops, but you might have to satisfy some rather large minimum order requirements. You should be able to find such a place in any large city.
-Steve
Des Moines, IA. Years ago I was able to buy some good plywood and the face was think enough you could sand without a problem. I had a couple of pieces and when I went around to try to find it, everyone said that it must of been some special ordered piece and it would be really high. I know I only paid about $25-30 for a 4x8 sheet. It's shame one can't buy something of good quality anymore.
TheOne ,
Often the imports veneers are even thinner then domestics not always though .
Some species were made in what is called thick skinned on a limited basis not sure about availability .
Wherever the local cabinet shops buy from would be a good place to check .
what type of work will you be doing ? Maybe you can plan a way to avoid the risk of sanding through the veneers , a reality for us all .
dusty , who has carefully burnt through most every specie of veneer
Dusty,
I wonder if you've measured the thickness of modern day veneer on ply, blockboard or MDF available in your neck o' the woods (or rather, timber merchant)? Stuff I recover from old furniture seems to have veneer around 1mm thick but the best of the modern stuff that can be bought locally seems to have veneer around 0.6mm.
It seems prudent to sand such boards with an RO sander rather than use a scraper; and definitely not a plane. Both these can take a lot rather too quickly. I tend to start at around 120 or 150 grit, as the veneer is usually already smooth. So far I haven't sanded through as I use a hard pad on the RO that stays flat and doesn't dub edges. A slower speed is also a help.
But if veneer is getting thnner than 0.6mm then surely even a careful RO sand will risk a burn-though. Is it just cost-cutting by manufacturers or is there some technique advised that avoids the need to sand such boards at all (hard to imagine)?
Personally the aspect that annoys me most about a sub-standard or cheap man-made board is voids (in plywood or blockboard, never use MDF). You can see a blemish in veneer and avoid it (by not buying the board or cutting out the offending bit). Not so with the dreaded void, which always obeys Murphy's Law subsection 107b - voids will only appear in a critical piece and after it has been put into a construction.
And blockboard with a too-thin under-veneer is also a pain, as any uneven blocks can then telegraph to the surface. Of course, such a woggly surface shows up most after the shiny finish is on. Doh! I now only buy blockboard with an under veneer at least 3mm thick, after learning the hard way that 2mm is not enough.
Lataxe
Lataxe and all,The standard veneer thickness in the industry was for many many years 1/28" which is just a tad under 1 mm. Today the standard in most European veneer mills has become 0.6 mm thick. However, for many species they also cut 1.2 mm thick, which is disproportionally more expensive but just lovely to work with.Buying pre-glued panels you will only get the 0.6 mm thickness. But if you purchase veneer from a good outlet you should be able to find 1.2 as well, and either glue up yourself or have someone do it for you. I use a subcontractor with a large press who glues whatever veneer I bring him onto whatever substrate I want. Cost is ridiculuously cheap and this way I get what I want for the given job.regards,David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
JB,
I tend to start at around 120 or 150 grit, as the veneer is usually already smooth.
I'd be curious as to what grit the veneer is sanded to from the factory? You might be starting with a grit that's too coarse? Maybe just a light hand sanding with a higher grit is all that's required?
Also, our veneer plywood over here is not measured with those mm thangs and what in blazes is that blockboard stuff?! Phooey with them voids, it's best to avoid the voids. Our higher standards don't allow them! Are you buying your wood at Home Decrepit these days?
:-)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 1/15/2008 2:39 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
It depends on the particular piece of plywood, of course, but I find that Baltic birch, at least, does seem to benefit from a light sanding with P120 before moving up the grades.
The absolute nicest plywood I've seen in recent years is Europly, from Columbia Forest Products. It's like Baltic birch, except that the inner plies alternate between birch and alder. You can get it with different face veneers. Very expensive, unfortunately.
-Steve
Steve,
I've been told by many folks that thinner plys are better/stronger? It would seem that thin inner plys with let's say 1/8" outer skins would be the best approach.
It's kinda interesting though as right after I posted to Lataxe, I went to pull out a sheet of Baltic birch that I'm going to use for a new crosscut sled and it had what I'd call voinds on the face!
I've never had this happen to me with this stuff B4! Guess everything is getting more cheaply made as time moves on.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
The reason that the outer plies are so thin is that they're made from the good stuff, the clearest wood with the straightest grain. The manufacturers don't want to waste it, so they cut it as thin as the equipment can handle. (I do believe that that's the real driving force between the ever-decreasing thickness of face veneers. It has always been "as thin as possible"; the only difference is that as manufacturing techniques improve, "as thin as possible" gets thinner and thinner.)
I've had Baltic birch that delaminated just from looking at it too hard....
-Steve
http://www.design-technology.org/Blockboard.htm
I suppose these modern materials have not made it to the colonies yet. :-)
There is good blockboard and the other stuff. Good means that the blocks are all uniform, of good clear wood and are glued so there are no voids. Also, the under-veneer must stop that telegraphing (which is less likely anyway if the blocks are uniform).
Blockboard is nce because you can treat it just as though it were solid wood; yet it behaves like plywood in that it won't shrink or expand anything like as much as solid wood. When made well it's a great material - especially if you can find some with handsome flitches of veneer, making it look like planks of solid wood that have been edge joined. If the flitches are book-matched across the board, so much the better. I have some gorgeous cherry ones.....
And because the blocks are usually softwood, it is lightweight. It seems to be stiffer than equivalent thickness of birch ply, despite being lighter.
Now... I want some o' that with 1.2mm veneer on it, as described by David Ring.
Lataxe, a blockhead
Hiya Lataxe ,
I don't have any lines that small on my tape measure , it is thin .
Custom lay up such as in factories and specialty applications were and are made to suit the needs at hand still today . This is not what is for sale to the public .
On the outside faces of plywood pieces like the finished ends sanding by hand works nice , the interiors get sanded before assembly and final after with sander.
The burn through I have encountered is from the belt sander . If the face gets flush trimmed then puttied , belt sanded then finish sanded to 220 .When I use putty it is an indicator to stop sanding in those areas .
A problem with some thin veneers is the glue calendars through the face near the seams of the veneer .
You know , I toured a Columbia Plywood mill in Klamath Falls Oregon and saw how they make the core and plugged all the knot holes in the veneer core that went under the face of good stuff . so when I get those Murphy's law voids right at the writing spot of a desk top or you know , makes me wonder .
dusty
"You know , I toured a Columbia Plywood mill in Klamath Falls Oregon and saw how they make the core and plugged all the knot holes in the veneer core that went under the face of good stuff ."
That wasn't the real production line. That was the animatronic simulation, just like Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland.
-Steve
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