Hi to all
I bought a Stanley combination nail gun and compressor. The compressor is 1.5 horse, 6 gallon and delivers 3.4 @40 psi and 2.7@ 90 psi
My question is can I run a sprayer for stains and finishes on small projects. A small project would be a couple of end tables or a bed. I have looked at sprayer heads and they call for anywhere from 10 to 55 psi -but with a much higher cubic foot rating. I am not painting a room and the unit would not be running for hours.
I have never sprayed, and I imagine application is done in light coats. Can I use a spray head and get good results? Any suggestion on spray heads?
Thanks Jim
Replies
Absolutely. Get a 'non bleeder' type gun. I have 2 guns. One with a qt can for heavier bodied paints (pressure feed) and a finish gun (suction feed) for smaller jobs.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
mike,
so which do you use for stains and varnishes?
Jim
Mike do yu think this would work with my compressor ?
INDUSTRIAL PAINT SPRAY GUN
View Image
Specially designed for auto body and industrial uses. Professional results with light and medium viscosity finishes. Fine spray adjustment. One quart siphon cup. All metal construction.
Air pressure: 20-55 PSI
Air consumption: 6 CFM
Air inlet: 1/4''
Hose size: 3/8''
Reinforced base
Cam-lock closure
ITEM 43760-2VGA
$29.99$19.99
I use my smaller finish gun for smaller jobs using stains, poly, or lacquer. Use the larger for heavy bodied enamel paints and such. Last time I used the large one was to spray about 2 dozen cabinet doors for the shop with enamel paint. I did use the larger one once for spraying a king sized headboard with lacquer cause the finish gun didn't have enough volume. The finish gun is for items less than, say, 5 or 6 sq ft in area.
I stay away from those bargin basement deals. I've only bought Campbell Hausfeld guns for the last many years. Well now, I take that back. Bought a finish gun (of a different brand) at Lowe's that did not work. Took it back and got another. That did not work either. Then went to HD and got a Campbell Hausfeld which did work.
I have the tank on my oil type compressor set to 120lbs pressure and the guns are regulated down to about ~40 lbs. When spraying the cabinet doors, I had to pause every 3 or 4 doors and let the compressor catch up.
I think my larger gun is rated at about 5 or 6 CFM.
I don't do enough work to justify a more expensive setup. Tried a HVLP once at a show and one of those would sure be nice to have. If I did more funriture items I'd probably get one.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood
In your owner's manual (yeah, yeah, the owner's manual) there should be a note or specification on how many minutes out of an hour maximum that the compressor motor should run. Worth looking up.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi- I don't see any restrictions in the manual.
Jim
I'm a bit too lazy tonight to walk through the rain and get the Porter-Cable manual from the shop, but I'll take a look tomorrow. The reason I bring this up is because I've seen what the piston in a small oilless compressor looks like when it blows, and it's not pretty. They aren't much more than a thick tin can, and there are definitely limits to their ability to stand alot of concentrated running time.
The paint gun in the picture appears to require nearly twice the CFM that you cited for your compressor at 40 PSI.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 1/14/2003 1:04:29 AM ET by forestgirl
Hey FG
I just joined the 21 century and bought my first nail gun January 2, Porter Cable 3/4" to 2 1/2". I've used it a little, it just seems too easy. Do you like your yours, which one do you have, and any pointers.
God Bless
les
Hi Les, welcome to the 21st -- I got here by getting a new computer! LOL.
I have the pancake compressor kit that came with an 18ga brad nailer. Have to confess, watching Norm inspired me -- the thought of being able to just go "pop, pop, pop, pop, pop" to get things to hang together while the glue dries was too tempting.
I like mine alot, though it's seen fairly limited use. I have to remind myself to put the drop of oil in the nailer before hooking it up. It's so easy to use! Don't know that I have that many tips, except maybe to drive a practice nail or two if it's something important, to get the depth right. I always drain the tank of air before putting it away for the day -- get lots of argument on this, but it's easy to do and should prolong the life of the tank. I do wish they upper release valve would point somewhere besides at my face, but I just turn my face away and pull.
Next toys for that outfit are a staple gun and a bigger nailer.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG, If you are going to drain the tank why don't you use the drain valve on the bottom and get the water out at the same time? The water accumulation in the tank will cause the most problems.
I use the upper release valve to drain it down to about 20lbs, and then the lower to release the rest, per instructions. I can feel moisture exiting via both valves.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I do wish they upper release valve would point somewhere besides at my face, but I just turn my face away and pull.
Are you referring to the exhaust port on the top of the gun? On the PC's, you can rotate them to any direction in 45 deg increments. Just grab and turn.Be seeing you...
I have the same compressor as forestgirl, I think. There is a pressure release valve on top with a pull ring that lets out a major blast of air. Once the pressure has been mostly released you can open the drain valve at the bottom.
Doh! I thought she was talking about the nailers, for some reason. Sorry if I insulted you, FG. Be seeing you...
I spell that D-U-H, ha ha. No problem, Mr. T.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yep, that's how I do it. That first "blast" caught me by surprise the first time, fer sure!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I got my uncle good with that once. I had helped him frame up a fairly elaborate form for concrete that was to be poured. We used my little PC compressor and framing nailer. When we were cleaning up I yelled over to him "Hey, would you mind pulling on that little ring there on top?" He about jumped out of his shoes.
Jamie,
To exand your wants list a bit, you might think about the 23 ga. pin nailer. I just got the Senca and am in love. 1/2" to 1". a pack of 2600 pins fits in a box 2" by 3" by 1/2", with more air than steel.
I used it to shoot in some small (1/4" x 1/4" x 5/8") maple drawer stops on a sideboard. Split only one of the 10. Pretty amazing. Then used it to tack a miter on a countertop edge of maple on what will be a painted piece. I think the paint will fill the hole it left. On small moldings, a drop of super glue on the hole, and a bit of 320 grit sanding and the hole is invisible. Just sand till the liquid is dry. About 30 seconds or so. This is a Jeff Jewitt trick, from his book, which works well. Neat toy!
I've been eyeing the pin nailer too. I suspect which one I go for first will depend on what project drives the purchase. I used to think I'd be doing some cabinetry, but am wondering whether I'll really want to horse around those big panels and such. We'll see.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
>> ... it just seems too easy.
LOL. That was my reaction the first time I tried sandpaper sharpening. I bought a nearly new 60-1/2 block plane at a flea market. The original owner had tried to plane off some nail heads. I had a sharpening guide and some 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper, and when I finished grinding the nicks out, I decided to give it a try, without even any honing. And it cut! I was amazed. I went around grinning the whole rest of the afternoon.
Looks like our compressors are very close in specs (PSI, etc.) The Porter Cable warranty is voided if the compressor is required to perform more than a 50% "duty cycle." The duty cycle is the percentage of time the engine runs during an hour, so if it is made to run more than 50% of the time, they consider that "compressor abuse" (my term, LOL).
In all of this, I'm assuming that your compressor is of the oil-less type.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have a Fini Biscout for nailguns with slightly better specs than your Stanley and it will nicely run a touch-up gun. Any full size gun runs the tanks down faster than the compressor can keep up with so its shoot five seconds, wait fifty-five. Very annoying.
As some have stated you will have a lot of "run" time with an undersized comp. but you can use is for small jobs. You may also incur an increased amount of moisture buildup in the unit depending on the humidity at the time of operation. The more the comp. runs the hotter it gets. The more humid the environment the more moisture you will produce. You may(will) end up spraying that moisture through your gun if you run the comp. excessively. The smaller comps. give you great portability but does not run alot of equipment other than nailers and staplers very efficiently.
JB
The rule of thumb for compressor CFM is four (4) CFM per horsepower. I don't think you will be able to do any prolonged spraying with this compressor. Try renting a larger compressor to do a job until you find one you like and can afford. Good Luck,
Len (Len's Custom Woodworking)
Edited 1/14/2003 11:17:37 AM ET by LRUTHERFOR1
Len thanks for the response. My question is if I wanted to spray lacquer on a bed would I be able to do it and have an acceptable spray. I would expect to work slowly. I do so few projects where I would use this at this point of time I would like to see if the results would justify going further. The size of the projects would be small.
Would my system work, but work slowly, or would it just make a mess?
Regards,
Jim
Jim, You may get by with a HVLP gun. I've used my small air brush to do small items, but something of any size I use my 6HP compressor. Another tip is the amount of cfm per hose size: 3/8" = 10cfm; 1/2" = 40cfm. The connection to the tool is usually 3/8", but some have 1/4" which effectively reduce the cfm to 5 or less. When I first started, I burned up a compressor by trying to spray too large items. The best advise I can offer is to try a HVLP gun (rent or borrow) with your compressor and see if it works. Just keep an eye on the compressor. If it starts to get hot, stop.
Len (Len's Custom Woodworking)
Len thanks, that info really helps.
Regards,
Jim
Jim, an LVLP gun might be a better choice for you.
by the way, stay away from cheap guns, they have poor atomization to begin with, and with your compressor your setting yourself up for disaster. they would be more suited for a job like finishing a deck or sealing concrete where an inconsistent finish won't be noticed.
Jim You should have no problem spraying the legs and the stretchers using a touch up gun and your compressor. The two concerns are running out of air, or fliud, while spraying a big panel - such as a headboard- you really don't want to stop spraying in the middle of a side. There is nothing wrong, OTHO, in spraying one or more legs ( so long as they are not glued up to other parts ) and then stopping to let your compressor catch up or to refill your spray gun. If you have already assembled your peice, you then need to plan your order of spraying to avoid overspray landing on panels already sprayed - or spray one side, then masking it off when dry and spray the next side and so on. Another option to consider, if running short on air while spraying one side is to buy one of the air storage tanks ( they are about 35.00 for a 9 gallon tank) which, together with some fittings, would allow a longer supply of air before you run out of air. The other possible problem is running out of material if a peice, like the headboard is very big, you may only be able to spray one side of it before refiling the cup. I reccomend the Astro mini gravity feed touch up HVLP gun which sells for about $80.00. It is a great gun, but it has a very small cup .13 liters and I don't know if a larger cup is available. It is rated for 4cfm at 40 psi, but I have used it at 20 psi and it sprays fine- very little overspray.
Barry, thats a great idea on the storage tank option. Sounds like I can use the compressor.
Regards,
Jim
Jim- just remember that extra storage will let you go longer before the pressure drops too low, but it will also take longer to come back up to pressure. That little compressor pump can only put out so much. You don't get something for nothing.Be seeing you...
Another trick for extending the range of a touchup gun is to remove the small resevoir and hook the gun up to a one quart pressure pot. Eliminates running out of finish, and just leaves you with the restricted delivery that the touchup guns produce as the obstacle to overcome.
Dick, that is a good idea- though the Astro touch up gun uses a smaller diameter threaded coupling for the supply cup ( than the regular size gun) - so you might need some sort of adapter. I have only used the touch up gun a few times, but the regular Astro should not be confused with cheap gun- it is much better than a cheap knockoff- search the woodweb finishing site and you will see some rave reviews for the full sized Astro.
I have a Accuspray LVLP. I use it with my 1 1/2 HP 4 Gal emglo. Its designed to be used with small compressors. I spray primarily water base finishes with it. I love it and cannot see my self useing anything else for spraying W/B. The compressor runs all the time and the gun was a bit tricky to set up as it is different than regular HVLP. It has a small have on the inlet that controls the pressure in the cup. I dial this down to a very low pressure and it works great. It is a 1 qt cup gun but also has a 2 qt pressure feed sytem for it and a 2 1/2 gal pot for it. I havent purchased the 2qt pres. system or the 2 1/2 gal pres. pot. All this can be run off a small compressor. It is a bit pricey but believe me if your gonna spray get a good gun. I had a cheaper one for a while and there is no comparison.
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I got my best guys on it.........
Ron, I'm not familiar with the Emglo. Is that an oil-less compressor? Howya doin' BTW...?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You're right Ron, it is a two quart pot, not one quart. I use it on the touchup gun and my full size conventional Devilbiss. I like it because the setup is small enough to easily deal with confined spaces. I've been considering an HVLP or LVLP. What sort of price on your system?
The LVLP accuspray is running about 400 bucks you can see it at http://www.compliantspraysystems.com they also sell enduro coat stains sealer and finishes. I really like them. I also bought the small touch up attachment for it it works great for small jobs. At that site you'll see full packages(Gun and Compressor) as well as the 2qt pressure system and the 2 1/2 gal system(It amazes me that they can do that with such a small compressor)
FG
emglo is a oil lube compressor. They use to be the best small compressor out. But they recently got bought by Dewalt. They are now yellow and say in big bold writting DeWalt and small print under it Emglo. You'll find them at the HD.
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Emglo being an oil-lubed compressor, it's much more likely to withstand full-time running. I suspect that kind of use would be the death knell for an oilless compressor.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You may want to re-think your finish choice.
Jim,
A big gun and small compressor is a bad combination. Think Lexus with a 3HP lawn mower motor. Just not enough juice for the job. It isn't a matter of "making a mess" so much as overtaxing the compressor, which would lead to an early demise.
BJ
Please see my post. They now make a spray gun for small compressors both walcom (Jeff jewitt) and Accuspray. I have the accuspray and have no complaints
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Ron, I know you love your compressor and gun combination, but it's important to keep up front the distinction that your compressor is oil-lubed. If one of us dufi (plural of "dufus") were to use our little oil-less compressor for the same task, we're going to send it to an early grave, as noted by Bert!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG you make a interesting point. I went to compliants website http://www.compliantspraysystems.com and their compressor combo looks (notice I said looks) like a mak. but even if it isnt oil lubed why would that make a difference?
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Methinks that the typical oil-less compressor many of us use these days (like the PC pancake compressor that is included in the brad nailer combo kit) is going to have limitations compared to an oil-lubed compressor of comparable HP. The rings are Teflon generally, the piston is like a thick tin can, and the bearings are "permanently lubed." I simply can't see this type of motor holding up to the same levels of heat and stress that an oil-lubed motor would. It seems logical that such limitations are what lead Porter-Cable to place a 50% running time limit on the pancake compressor.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Interesting, I have a old FWW article oncomparing small compressors im going to have to re-read it as its old and I havent read it in a while, Ill check back later this week (after all its S/B and Im gonna be a tad tied up...GGGGOOO RRRAAAAIIIDDDEEERRSSSS
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
I though it was "RRRAAAAIIIDDDAAAHHSSSS" ROFL!!
Have to admit, I'm cheering them on simply because I'd like to see Jerry get another ring, and those other old dudes get their due. Have fun. My shop doesn't close until an hour after kick-off, then I get to run home and do the couch-potatoette thing.
Go JJJJEEEEERRRRRRY.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jim, its air and volume of air that you need to concern yourself with. Your small compressor doesn't care if you hook up a nail gun, a blow gun or a spray gun. Buy the gun and if it doesn't work then buy a bigger compressor. In reality, if you are not trying to blow down the overhead of a Battle Ship then you should be just fine.
Edited 1/26/2003 10:40:27 PM ET by no one
Well I found the article on small compressors. It was in a FHB #113, dated January 1998
Ill start in the middle of a paragraph under the heading" oil bath vs oiless pumps
"A great debate rages between proponents of oil bath pumps and those who favor oil less design. The oil bath claims a much longer pump life. Even some of on the oil less side agree with the argument in a perfect world. However so much is contingent on care that I could see a good oil less compressor outlasting a poorly manitained oil bath unit. And to lubricate properly a oil bath compressor needs to be set up level everytime. I have to admit being won over to oiless technology. I like not having a oily film on the compressor (makes it easier to clean) and because theres no danger of spilling lgetting oil on unfinished work surfaces such as hardwood floors. My Cambell hausfeld compressor has been worked hard for three years approximately 30 hours a week per year. It still works fine. I sent into the repair shop for service. There was little sign of wear. The motor was in good shape. The piston and teflon ring were not as tight as new but were sealing well. But if you take care of it , an oil bath compressor will last longer than a oil less one but will cost more to repair. "
After reading this article I think the recovery time ( the time for the compressor to refill the tank) would be the most important consideration that I would use in determining which compressor to use not oil bath or oil less. Granted this article was written for running nail guns but I still think it doesnt make a difference as far as durability for spraying. But check out the article it has some good tips on maintence ect. IMO
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Edited 2/1/2003 3:28:09 PM ET by RonT
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