need some advice guys…my ole 22-560 Delta benchtop planer appears to be on its last leg. It had been making some bad grinding noises and it seemed to be getting louder and louder each time I used it. Anyhow, after using this week, I started to smell burning coming out of the planer. Not good, I know. I think I even spotted some smoke coming out of the planer, though it wasn’t incredibly noticeable.
Question is this…is it worth my time to explore what is going on w/ the planer and attempt any type of repair? Or should I just start looking for a new one?
any help much appreciated. thanks
Replies
There will be a lot of people who know a lot more about these things than I, but it may just need the bearings replaced. If this is the case, is this cost affective? Can't say there, I don't know the machine.
I'm using a 20 yr. old Hitachi joiner/planer, built like an old car, sturdy and heavy. As time goes on it seems to be getting louder so this may be an option with this machine.
good luck
Woodk,
I had smoking in my Delta when it was new. I had tried to plane a cutting board and the maple cubes went flying. Anyhow, it turned out that the plastic cover that gose over the chain was melting. I brought it in and they fine tuned everything and I've had no problems for the past three years. The cost was about $50....I carried it in.
Smoke from the machine is a bad sign, the motor's insulation has probably been overheated and short of replacing the motor can't be properly repaired. If it isn't replaced, the motor's remaining life is likely to be limited.
It might be possible to identify and correct the cause of the overheating, which might be a separate problem from the motor, but my guess is that the cost of parts and time involved wouldn't be justified if the machine is generally worn out.
Almost any machine can be repaired, but the sad reality is that the lighter weight machines often aren't worth the trouble of repairing if there are major problems.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
WOW. A reply from JWhite. Avid reader of your writing here. thank you. Thanks to the other guys as well. Appreciate your help.
Sadly, I am limited in my electrical capability so the 3hp machines that I would prefer aren't really an option.
thanks again guys.
They run on smoke when you let it out they won't run anymore.
I would at least look for a reputable electric motor rebuilder near you. They can let you know what you're looking at as far as how much $, what may have caused this motor to go away and if you have used an extension cord, they can let you know how heavy the proper cord would need to be. They may even be able to beef your motor up a bit.
I had a similiar problem on my Delta planer, and it was the driven pulley on the cutter head. The hole had worn out, and the wobble was causing it to rub on the bearing housing, which made the belt overheat. A replacement pulley was about $15 bucks plus shipping. It works fine now. I didn't even have to replace the belt.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~claypen
Clay-thanks alot. I would love for that to be the issue. Certainly beats 300 for a new one.
I have message into Delta Tech support. Haven't had many dealings with them. Hoping they are helpful.
Clay/all-
Thanks for all the replies again. Appreciate it. Clay, I went out and turned it on and it REALLY started smoking this time. I only ran it for a split second but it wasn't good. I will say this, it sounds as if the noise IS coming from the side of the planer, believe that is where the chain/pulley is on these little planers? It sounded as if something was grinding there also. Still waiting to hear back from Delta. Will let you know how it goes.
take care-Kevin/WoodK
It's a belt drive, and the belt spinning over a pully that is disintgrating and not turning may be where the smoke is coming from. That's what was wrong with mine. If you take the cover off, you'll be able to see immediately if that is the problem. If yo ustill have the owner's manual, the exploded diagram in the back will show you exactly where to look. If it is the pullely going bad, you can call a Delta Service Center listed in the manual and they can UPS the part to you. I think the belt on my was overtensioned at assembly, and the tension eventually caused teh hole in the pulley to enlarge, making the pulley wobbly and rub on other things. A piece of the pully finally broke off and caused everything to lock up. That's when the smoke started. Fortunately, I learned what the problem was before the belt burned up.Go ahead and pull the cover off and look at it. It's already broken, so you don't have to worry about screwing it up.Clay Foster
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~claypen
Clay, you are the MAN! You may have just save me a bunch of dough.
Here's what I did...I popped both side covers off(easy, just 2 nuts per side+the cutter head lock lever screw on the one side). Pulleys look fine. Those are the chains, right? OK. Good there at least appears so.
The other side(the one w/ the cutter head lock lever) is another story. The rubber belt has completely worn through the belt cover. I'm serious, the belt actually appears to have worn so much/so hard against that cover that it heated up that plastic cover so much that it wore through it against part of it and actually binded itself up.
Indications, at least from my limited ability are that I need to replace this drive belt and that plastic cover. I may need some help doing this, but it appears fairly straightforward.
thank you so much. This is what makes these forums so great. I have 5 years worth of subscriptions to 3-4 different wood mag's. Tons of books. Numerous wood shows, etc, etc, etc...and none could have answered this question. I'm not faulting them as they can't address everything...but it's a fact.
Another note-Delta Tech hasn't gotten back w/ me either. Going on a 4th or 5th business day now...
Thank you!
Clay, sorry to keep this thing going...
But, you were spot on with my issue. I took the cover off and the pulley(I finally figured out what the pulley was) was very wobbly which seemed to cause the belt to edge its way into the plastic cover. The heat build up with the belt rubbing against that cover caused the belt to bind up in that cover. It actually wore its way into that cover, melted into it entirely and froze everything up.
My concern at this point is a fear that I may have done some damage to the motor with everything frozen up.
I'm a bit frustrated with Delta. It took them 5-6 business days to get back to me. OK, no big deal. Things get busy.
So, I finally get an answer. And, here is their version of going above and beyond...
Dear Kevin,
Thank you for visiting the Delta Machinery website.
It is probably time to upgrade.
With the belt off, turn the motor on. If it runs, it is probably okay. The only way to know for sure is buy a new pulley and plane a board. If you've got the manual, you can get the part number and call a Delta Service Center listed in the manual. The guy I talked to there was perfunctory but not rude, which is fine with me. He got the correct part on the UPS truck the same day I called.Clay Foster
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~claypen
Wood,Unplug that thing, and don't plug it back in until you have had a look at the pulley. Those portable Delta planers have a problem with the pulley on the cutterhead shaft. The pulley is aluminum and it fits (too loosely) on a steel shaft. Over time the bore of the pulley grows bigger and eventually you have an ugly problem. A good carpenter friend had this same problem with his 22-560. I fixed a broken 22-580 last year with JB Weld and a dial indicator to keep the pulley concentric. The machine came to me free, so I had very little to lose. It works great now. I used cyanoacrylate glue to fixture the pulley (to the nut that retains it to the shaft) while the JB cured. The tricky part was getting things concentric with wet glue on the thing, then holding it in a death grip with one hand while applying the fillet of CA with the other. I used accelerator sprayed on, and it held.The next day I rechecked it and concentricity was within .002". The machine gods were with me that day. I've planed a fair bit of wood since then, and no problems yet.Bill
Thanks Bill. If you would, take a look at my last post(I think we posted at the same time)...anyhow, I checked out the pulleys-if those are the chains opposite side of the cutterhead lock lever side. The are still intact, none of them appear binded up. The rubber belt on the other side is much different. Its a mess.
Man, I bet alot of these little planers have this problem. Too bad. Sounds like it isn't always the motor like I suspected at first.
The chains are for raising and lowering the cutterhead, keeping it parallel. They only move when you adjust the cutter height. Move the cutter height wheel and you will see how they work. They don't have anything to do with powering the cutterhead.Follow Bill's advice and examine the drive belt pulley carefully. If it has play on the shaft, it should be replaced. The hole in an aluminum pulley can wear out easily, but it is much cheaper to replace than the shaft of the cutter head.Clay Foster
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~claypen
Claymaker,I think the chains Wood is referring to are the chains that drive the feed rollers.Bill
You'r right, Bill. I was working from memory rather than actual observation of the planer, which most times gets me in trouble.Clay Foster
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~claypen
Wood,The chains run on sprockets, like a bicycle drivetrain. The pulleys are what connect to the rubber belt. The drive pulley on the motor is a small diameter and seems not to fail. I think it is steel. The driven pulley is much larger, 3-4" diameter, and made of aluminum. This last item is the weak link on these machines.My 22-580 had a D-shaped Woodruff key to transmit torque from the big pulley to the cutterhead shaft. Things had deteriorated so far that the key had broken apart and torn a hunk of steel out of the cutterhead shaft. Faced with this, I elected to attempt the no-money-spent repair. Had it been only the pulley that was bad, I would have just bought a new one and installed it. The shaft was so bunged up that a new pulley would require a new shaft, which was $$$ plus loads of labor, all on a machine of unknown province. Thus, necessity became the mother of my mad invention. By the way, I did put what was left of the key back into its slot, after filing off the hideous burrs on the shaft. I should have taken a picture! The key elements to my success were careful masking and generous gluing after fastidious surface preparation, along with the use of a dial indicator to check concentricity. And the machine deities were smiling!Bill
I'd yell out to the little lady of the house..
EDIT:
FIRE under control.. For YOUR safty..Can I get a new one?
Edited 3/31/2006 9:26 am by WillGeorge
dare I suggest.... now's a real good time to think about hand planes...??? Think of all the electrons you'd be saving... ;)
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Midnight...while I am a huge James Krenov fan and frequently admire those who can hear the wood "talk" to them...I don't know if I would enjoy hand planing all of my rough lumber. Kudos to those who can do it though!
awwwww go onnnn.... how ya gonna find out if ya don't give it a try...?? ;)
think about it... lighter, quieter, wayyyyy cheaper (by the time you factor in for disposable knives, DC and associated plumbing et al) healthier (gives a workout that puts a gym t shame...) and... wait for it... no sanding... no corrigations to remove from your boards...
2000 years of handraulic woodworkers can't all be wrong.... right..?? ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Not joking here, I really want to know, do you REALLY hand plane all your rough lumber to size?? If so, what do you use and how long does it take per board foot?
Jeff
Jeff.... I started out like you (maybe smaller scale) bench top jointer and thicknesser.. bought the best I could afford and put my faith in the tools..<!----><!----><!---->
It didn't take too long to realise that the jointer just wasn't fit for what I was trying to do... just not enough tool, but in my tiny shop I don't have space for a long bed jointer... Necessity forced me into getting one good face and two good edges by hand... I still used the thicknesser for the 4th face...<!----><!---->
Over time, even the thicknesser began to disappoint me; it'd take me hours to move everything in the shop around to squeeze in the DC, align the thicknesser with the door to ensure enough space for out feed yadda yadda... the clincher was the final finish on the board... all them corrugations took forever to sand or plane out...<!----><!---->
So I retired the thicknesser.. set to learning how to get 4 flat n square faces.. initially it took forever but as my range of planes expanded to include a proper scrub plane, time required came down drastically.. <!----><!---->
How long it takes to do a particular board is hard to put a figure on… it depends on the overall length, required thickness and the grain of the board… I still can’t compete with a machine for speed, but then, I’m not trying to.. it’d be nuts to say that I was.. <!----><!---->
These days most of the stock I work with (it all starts out as 9ft lengths of rough sawn) is well in excess of the capacity of my thicknesser, so it’d be impossible to compare the two side by side… <!----><!---->
It takes me way longer in comparative terms, but what I gain more than makes up for the lost time… there’s the free workout, then the clean air, the linear cuts produced by hand planning negate the need to sand anything saving me hours of shop decontamination (not to mention negating the need for dust masks et al).. In addition, by being an integral part of the process, I gain a thorough induction into the grain characteristics of every board I work with…<!----><!---->
Then there are the safety aspects… I no longer need to risk blowing my back whenever I’d to haul the thicknesser up onto the bench.. Likewise with having to haul the boards back over the machine to make multiple passes; once the board is on the bench and crosscut to approximate size all I need do is flip it over now n then. The only time I need wear safety glasses is when I’m working with the scrub plane (for such a girly looking tool, it’s a bit of an animal).<!----><!---->
What I end up with is sticks planed to the right thickness, shot to the right width, crosscut to length with each of the 4 faces being ready for finish with no further intervention required.. What I loose on the swings, I gain on the round-abouts…<!----><!---->
I’m not running a production shop, therefore I don’t need to crank out stock as quickly as possible; I’m free to focus on quality… <!----><!---->
Short term, it’s no cheaper than buying top line wood-munchers and waste management systems; long term, once the tools are bought, the only maintenance they need is a sharpen when necessary and a wipe down with light oil / wax to keep the rust off them. They take up a fraction of the space of their equivalent machines, can be stored out of the way when not in use and have a kudos factor that’s off the scale.. The electrickery bill comes down hand over fist too… when I run outa natural light I’m only using 15 watts to see what I’m doing…<!----><!---->
Tools used to get there :- <!----><!---->
L-n #40 ½, L-N # 4 ½, L-N #5 ½, L-N #6, L-N #7, L-N #62 and L-N#9. I rely on York pitch frogs to deal with difficult grain as and when necessary; careful stock selection means I seldom need to reach for a scraper…<!----><!---->
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
getting off topic but i am also trying my hand at planing and it seems as easy as using the electrical one but that set of planes set you back a bit eh
Short term, it’s no cheaper than buying top line wood-munchers and waste management systems
I have to disagree here. Handraulics is cheaper, because no matter how good your machines, you still need almost all the hand tools to clean up, and to handle stock your machines can't handle. Even power shops will eventually acquire pretty much everything Mike lists.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
<<Not joking here, I really want to know, do you REALLY hand plane all your rough lumber to size?? >>Yes.In addition to all of the advantages Mike listed in his post, you also get to have conversations in a normal tone, and can listen to music while you work. Clean-up is much faster and easier.....wood shavings more or less stay put where they fall.How long does it take? Well....the first couple are pretty time-consuming, at least partly because you're figuring out how to put the words on paper into motions at hand. You also quickly find out whether your idea of "sharp" is actually adequately sharp. But, after the first couple of boards, the more you do, the faster and more accurate you get (nothing in particular to do with trying to become faster, it just kinda naturally happens as you become more adept at handling the planes and reading the wood). For smaller pieces, you can plane them as fast or faster by hand, than you can set up the jointer, thicknesser, etc., and it's hand planing hands down if you throw in the time required to sand or plane the ripples out. Mostly, the time needed depends on the wood....recently, I've been doing a lot of red oak; it's more time-consuming than walnut or cherry, but still not too bad.I'm also in no hurry, because I'm also not doing this for a living or on a production line basis. It's quite enjoyable to have the luxury of being able to take as much time as necessary to get the result you want (within the limits of one's skills).My plane arsenal for stock preparation is similar to what Mike listed, except most of my bench planes are old pre-WWII Stanleys. My most used: LN #40-1/2, LN #4, Stanley #4-1/2, Stanley #5, Stanley #5-1/2, Stanley #6, Sargent VBM #8, LN #62, LN #9-1/2, LN #102, and a card scraper.A shooting board, a good marking gauge, an accurate try or combo square, and an accurate straight edge all make this easier and more accurate.Why? It's a good work-out, get to know the wood, no saw dust to deal with, no screaming tailed apprentices, safer, and -- perhaps most important -- it's fun (yeah, I know: I have a warped sense of humour.....).Anyway, give it a try, if you haven't already; you may find that you really like it.James
Music isn't the issue. Try listening to the cricket with a machine turned on. For the uninitiated, a testmatch is probably the best accompaniament to hand tools ever invented.
On the other hand, I borrowed some time on big machienery at a mates shop the other day. In between passes we could catch up on the Melbourne GP. Even the big machines couldn't drown that.
Dave
Think of all the electrons you'd be saving... ;)I think there is about 440 Billion in a Millimeter or even more!
There is nothing made of wood that cannot be made with hand tools. The beautiful work of our forefathers was the result of their skillful use of the tools and materials at their disposal. It is often easier to pick up a plane than to set up a machine to remove a shaving or two.These early craftsmen would be amazed at the machines and equipment at our disposal,and I am certain that if they could have run a board thru the planer,they would have done so. Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
good point, Pat. Our forefathers didn't use handplanes because of the spirituality of the wood shavings. They used handplanes because they were the "power planers" of their times, ie-its all they had.
I bet the Shakers would have adored a benchtop planer.
Rotary-cut veneer is tough with hand tools. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Rotary veneer.For me it would be impossible .I doubt that our auld craftsmen would know what this was. In my view,this is a development of the plywood industry. For finished work,if veneer is to be used,I would use the sliced variety. My personal preference is the sawed variety produced on the bandsaw. Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
It sounds like you have nothing to lose by exploring! First thing to do is start isolating different parts and turning by hand to see what is not running smoothly. I think this thing has a belt, disconnect it and see if the motor grinds or the machine grinds, etc.
Could be a bad bearing; if you're really lucky, it's a bad belt. Could be a bad motor, but another possibility that's cheap is that the motor brushes are worn out. You can see a complete exploded view of the machine at:
http://acetoolrepair.com/DeltaHtml/PL/P82.htm
Pete
Wait a min here! Did you just copy my post about a week and a half ago on this same subject on the very same planer doing exactly as you describe? Mine did the same thing, exactky the same thing......oh but add the fact that my old Delta 22-560 went one strep further with the moror starting to smell. Im in the middle of a big project and I needed that planer badly. So I posted the same question. The long and the short of it after getting many suggestions as to what planer to get it came down to 2 choices...the 13" Dewalt or the 13" Delta. I bought the Delta because 1) it was $80 less money 2) it came with out feed extensions, something that costs you about $40 with Dewalt making that planer $540 vs the $420 for the Delta. Ive been using the new Delta and it seems to do a great job. Tool reviews on these 2 planers has them at a toss up. Both with 15 amp motors and 2 speeds. Both machines use the word "portable" quite loosely as they are both just shy of 100#. At $540 for a planer you would be just as well served if you pony up another $200 and buy a big stationary General unit
Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Woodk,
I had several things like your problem happen to my 12 1/2 Delta and I found that they became a maintenance item (as long as you do not wait too long). The noise could be from a loose pully on the motor. Delta had a problem that way on this machine (tapered shaft/keyway) and they sent me some new parts to fix it. However, I ended up using an epoxy to get rid of the clearance problem and have not had the problem since (over a year). I also had a height adjustment stiffen on me. Ended up being sawdust under the machine getting in the chain teeth.
So, why not dissassemble the machine and check for looseness of the pullies, sawdust in openings, etc. Can't hurt. If the motor is laboring, sawdust might be packed in some area of the drive train.
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