I want to make a 37 x 14 x 1.25 top for an end table. It’s the 1.25 that I’m having a problem with. Stock is curly maple milled to .75″. Only the outer 2″ of perimeter need to be at 1.25.
Edge profile will be “underside tapered”: .4″ vertical drop, then 45 degree taper (chamfer ?). This an attempt to hide the joint between the two layers.
Any suggestions ?
Tom
Replies
Tom,
Ironically, I'm currently building the exact thing you're talking about. I'm not really pleased with how it's coming out, but my experience might be instructive for you.
My client had a couple of 10 inch wide roughsawn curly maple boards and wanted a "sofa table" built of them (the maple for the top and walnut for the bottom). The maple had, unfortunately, been rough cut to 3/4" and stored away for a quarter century in someone's barn. The curly stuff really curled up, and I had to really think about how to make something other than a pile of wood chips out of the boards.
I couldn't joint the faces of the boards. They were too cupped, bowed and warped for that. Plus, I don't have a ten inch jointer. So, I jointed one edge and glued them up, taking care to make the resulting board as flat side-to-side as possible.
After the glue dried, I jointed and then screwed two 2x4's to my assembly bench just wider than the glued up tabletop. I laid the maple glue-up into the recess created by the 2x4's and drove screws alongside it to keep it from moving. I also shimmed the board so it was as parallel to the 2x4's as possible. Tape held the shims in place.
Then I built a simple sled of scrap maple that just fit the base of my Bosch router. I mounted a 3/4 straight bit in the router and lowered it to the surface of the maple. Then it was simply a matter of going back and forth across the board time and again until the bit cut away all the rough wood and left a clean surface. It turned out amazingly smooth - and dead flat. A great success there, and only a couple of hours of work all told. But then a big pile of chips to clean up!
After the top was milled, I flipped the board over and started working on the underside. But I only did about four inches around the edges and ends, leaving the middle part the full thickness (and roughness) of the original boards. I was left with a flat 1/2 inch of thickness.
I next cut strips of curly maple and glued them to the flat areas on the underside of the tabletop - and this is where I wish I'd have done things differently. One could probably get away with doing this procedure with a wood other than curly maple. But it was impossible to match the strips with the rest of the top, so the seam - although nice and tight - is pretty visible as the grain and curls change direction and light reflectance. I also cut cross-width strips and glued them under the ends of the tabletop so as to give the pieces a chance to expand and contract with the top's width. These seams are even more visible, of course.
I cut a slight chamfer of the sides of the tabletop, hoping that the edge of the chamfer would conceal the joint. It does to some extent, but it's still obvious that it's there.
This would have been a good place to stick a piece of thin, dark veneer between the two pieces, just to break up the obvious bad grain match. Or a decorative sawcut..
At any rate, that's my story.
Zolton
If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Zolton,
Thanks for your reply. I like your router based leveling technique. Please clarify:
Did you keep the maple grain direction in the same orientation as the walnut around the whole perimeter ?
Did you glue the edges of the walnut to each other, or just the top (maple) ?Tom
Tom,
To clarify:
I glued strips under the tabletop that mimicked the grain direction of the top. In other words, I glued long strips along the edges and filled in the ends with cross-grain pieces that showed end grain. It's hard to explain, but I did take wood movement into account and didn't glue up anything that wouldn't move exactly like the top surface will.
Zolton
If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Tom,
I'm not sure what you mean about gluing the walnut pieces together. The top is separate from the base of the table. The base is pretty conventional, with four legs and aprons between the legs. The aprons are joined to the legs with mortise and tenon joints.
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Z,
Did you glue up the walnut layer before applying it to the maple ?T
Tom,
There was no walnut layer. I guess I didn't make this clear. The tabletop was made only of maple.
I said I wished I had thought to add a layer of walnut veneer between the thinned top and the strips I glued on. But I didn't. That would have concealed the joint between the strips of curly maple and the top, also of curly maple.
Zolton
If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Z,
Got it.
Thanks
Tom,
I recently made this oak pedestal using the effect. Both the base and top are 1-1/2" thick and 16" and 15" square, respectively. I had to laminate these two parts from 1x4s. First, edge glued the boards to make them wide enough, then laminated them together. Because my parts were manageable, I cut the bevels on the tablesaw. The seam is not noticeable. By the way, the bevel was much less than 45. You should be able to do it with a router.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
(soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
Thanks for your reply. Did you clamp or screw the two layers together ? Nice pedestal and web site.Tom
Tom,I clamped the laminations together. Thanks for the comments on my site and pedestal.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Tom,
I finally had a chance to get into my shop today to take some photos of the "sofa table" I had been working on. This was the one with the double-layer top as described in an earlier post.
I don't know if it's going to be very clear, but you can see the seam along the edge of the tabletop, and that's what I was a little disappointed in. Really though, now that I've got finish on it, it's really not as noticeable as I feared it might. The bevel I planed along the edge, trying to get the break right on the glueline, does help this some.
At any rate, here it is, and good luck with your table..
Zolton
View Image
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If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
That is beautiful, I like everything about it.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
dgreen,
Thank you. This was quite a project, working with the gnarled lumber my client had. Worth it in the end though. I was glad I had the opportunity to photograph it before it disappeared. I'm going to miss it.
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Z,
Very nice! How'd you do the leg curves ?
T
Tom,
I had some help drawing the leg curves from a local artist I've worked with in the past. He's way better at the curved end of things than I am, so I traded him something in the future (probably lunch - and he eats like a horse!) for doodling on the leg blank I had.
I turned his scratchings into a template and then just drew the curves onto the leg blanks I had. I bandsawed out one side, then reattached the pieces with tape before bandsawing the other side. It's pretty standard cabriole leg procedure (though these, obviously, don't follow the classic cabriole leg shape).
Then a few hours with a spokeshave and abrasives, and there the legs were. I forgot to add that I had already cut the mortises into the tops of the legs before I did any cutting...
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Hi Tom,
Sounds like a reasonable approach.
Remember that as timber dries to final moisture content, it cups away from the heartwood. (assuming it's going from a humid into a dry environment, such as an air-conditioned room)
If you glue the two boards together with the heartwood on the inside, the two boards run a chance of separating.
Glue them with the heartwood on the outside.
If it's quarter-sawn, then it won't matter.
Cheers,
eddie
edit - admitting ignorance here, is the quilted figure more or less prominent in quarter sawn stock. Never dealt with it here.
As well, the 45° chamfer is still going to be visible. What about a 60° splay?
Edited 3/15/2009 1:00 am by eddiefromAustralia
Eddie,
After looking at Zolton's table top it appears that a 45 degree cut back will make the joint non obvious. Actually if mine looks anything close to Zolton's I'll be very happy. Thanks for the heads up on the heart to heart. I was aware of that exposure. This lumber q'sawn anyway.What's "splay" ?Tom
Hi Tom,A chamfer, by definition, is a 45° bevelled edge.A splay is anything that looks like a chamfer but not at 45° - the 60° splay would hide the join better than a 45° one would.Cheers,eddie
Edited 3/15/2009 2:56 am by eddiefromAustralia
On what authority or common usage do you base this pronouncement?
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Hi dgreen,While I'm bemused at the tone of your post, the source was the trade training and experience of working in a technical field with pedants who ensured we were completely versed in what we needed to know. I wrote the thing quickly as I only had a few minutes while I was having a break from the work I've got to do.The term bevel and splay are used interchangeably, but chamfer is reserved for an edge bevelled at 45° angle to the horizontal, splay's used more amongst trade commonly here, but with the influence of the internet in to general use, bevel is becoming more common as an alternative term.I've found a definition for you.Oldham router bits -> chamfer.
http://www.oldham-usa.com/Products/BitsMain/Terms/BitTerms.htmSplay (harder to find a furniture definition on the internet, perhaps the term bevel is more common in the USA for a non-45° edge.) http://www.google.com.au/search?q=define%3A+splay&ie=utf-8oe=utf-8&aq=trls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-aHere's a source, but confusing nonetheless. The definition of splay is more related to window openings here, it's origin. http://www.bafra.org.uk/html_pages/knowledgebase.htmlI don't know whether you meant your post to smack of arrogance, but I did take it this way and read your post accordingly so. It doesn't worry me greatly but it got to me enough to point it out. If I misread your intent, I apologise accordingly.Cheers, eddie(I'm pushing against a deadline that's looming - won't be back here for a while.)Edited 3/15/2009 4:01 am by eddiefromAustralia edited 29 MarI was digging around in my old trade notes looking for something else and they fell open on the page when they were talking about edge treatments.The distinction between splay and bevel is the angle to the surface.More than 135° = a bevel (ie: almost flat)
135° = a chamfer
Less than 135° = a splay (ie: a bit more than 90°)I checked Joyce - Bevel is the only term used in UK for an edge not at 45°.
Edited 3/28/2009 4:13 pm by eddiefromAustralia
It was not meant to be arrogant, I have been short of time to spend on the forum myself and my posts may be too terse.
My understanding of chamfer was a bevel on an edge, not neccessarily at 45 degrees.
My understanding of splayed was to be spread or turned outward.
It is interesting how cultural differences can affect the terms we use in woodworking.
I was looking for enlightenment, not trying to be confrontational. My apologies for it coming across that way.
I've got to get to bed but I will look up your references tomorrow.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Cheers dg,I understand. No offence taken this end. I actually logged back on to tone down the language I used as it was a trifle strong on reflection, but: "too late! He cried."Communication is only 5% text, it's the other 95% like body language, nuance and tone that's hard to understand over the internet.Yes, you're right. Splay as a verb is to spread apart, as in the legs on a splay-leg table or a chair. Its also got the noun connotation as outlined above.I now work in an area teaching our equivalent of US 'shop' class to a range of students. The area is 98% English as a second language, they find it hard enough as English is a fourth language for some. English is a mixture of Norse, Pict/Celt, German, French and Roman, amongst others. With the spelling and grammar rules, it's recognised as being one of the two hardest languages in the world to learn. (English for the grammar and spelling rules; Cantonese for it's written form, as each word is painted as a picture and not spelt per-se.)Now, back to the end table.Cheers,eddie
edited message 22I was digging around in my old trade notes looking for something else and they fell open on the page when they were talking about edge treatments.The distinction between splay and bevel is the angle to the surface.More than 135° = a bevel (ie: almost flat)
135° = a chamfer
Less than 135° = a splay (ie: a bit more than 90°)It's a technical difference that won't be used much in common practise.Cheers,eddieI checked my copy of Joyce - Bevel appears to be the only term used in the UK for a non-45° faceted edge. If Richard Jones comes across this post perhaps he could confirm.
Edited 3/28/2009 4:15 pm by eddiefromAustralia
Such finely defining those differences between bevel, chamfer and splay is rare nowadays eddie. You need to go back to when furniture making and joinery was perhaps more rigorously controlled through apprenticeship and guild systems. Here are some quotations.
"Bevel- any angle other than a right angle or "square"...
Chamfer- To take the salient angle off a piece of material, and leave a plane which is inclined to both surfaces."
Splay- An obtuse or acute angle; when of small extent it is called a chamfer." (Ellis, 1992, pp 438- 452).
Reference. Ellis, G. (1992) Modern Practical Joinery, (First printed in 1902) Stobart Davies.
Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
THanks Richard,Once again, different terminologies across different countries.The chamfer here is used to define a 45° faceted edge.Splay and bevel are used as outlined previously.What concerned me was that I can't find too many references on-line for the same. I was wondering if it was a country-specific thing.The chamfer being specifically a 45° facet appears to be supported by literature, but, as you said, these things aren't finely controlled these days. I had an old school tradesman who was keen to make sure that we learnt things properly.Thanks for the clarification, makes sense.Cheers,eddie
It was not meant to be arrogant, I have been short of time to spend on the forum myself and my posts may be too terse. YEP.. I do it all the time and no hate here to anybody!
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