Replies

1. 
   mudman | Jul 31, 2006 04:33pm | #1

   I have a Fuji 4-stage, and it is a good rig. Lots of power so I can get a good finish even with oil based paint or latex. The spray pattern is not very adjustable compaired to a conversion gun. Well, basicly there are two settings fan or round. The fan width is "adjustable" but not very. If you get a good HVLP setup I seriously doubt that you will continue using an airless. The cleanup is easier and the finish is a lot better. If you can use a conversion gun and have (or can buy) a good compressor I think that is a better route. There is a better selection of good conversion guns than turbine guns. The advantage of the turbine is portability.

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   birdsong | Jul 31, 2006 05:07pm | #2

   Hmmmmm....now you've got me thinking: spend the $ on a huge compressor and then a cheaper gun, because the gun would be more versitle?  I don't need the portability, but having a variable fan pattern is essential I think.  What level of compressor would I need?  2-stage 5hp?  And then, what would be a good spray gun?  I've got about $1k in my budget....Paul

1. 
   jackplane | Jul 31, 2006 07:59pm | #3

   A good spraygun, either hvlp or conversion hvlp, is more important than spending big dollars on a compressor, unless you plan on using the compressor for other work.

   I bought a cheap Campbell Hausfeld turbine kit with gun-works well for all paints, not as good for clearcoats.  I also have a 500$ Kremlin conversion gun, well worth it for superior finishing.

   Whatever you buy, it all comes down to atomization and fan pattern at the tip. 

1. 
   birdsong | Aug 01, 2006 12:37am | #4

   I'm getting to feel like a rat in a maze here.  What compressor do you have with your kremlin gun?  And is it hvlp?  In other words does it lay down a last coat with a gentle mist and no bouce back?

   Confused - Paul

1. 
   jackplane | Aug 01, 2006 02:03pm | #6

   As you can see, there are many good guns that lay down a fine coat w/ no bounce back.

   The Kremlin I use converts standard high pressure air, 60-100 or so psi to 4 to 10 psi.

   Couple things: Do you have a compressor? If yes, a conversion gun dovetails well for that set up, but the cfm rating should be kinda high. If no, I'd buy a turbine unit and look for a well machined spraygun with many apertures. 

2. 
   mudman | Aug 01, 2006 04:45pm | #7

   Dont necessarily expect to spend "less" on a conversion gun. Conversion guns are HVLP guns designed for comperssors. A good gun will cost $250 to $400. I have heard that the Porter Cable gun is a very good gun for $125. What is best for you depends on how often you will use it and how large the pieces you spray are. A good (more $$$$) gun is more effecient and needs less CFM's. For most WWing projects a 6 to 9 CFM compressor will do. If you are spraying a whole kitchens' worth of cabinets or if you are doing it profesionally you will be looking for 10 to 14 CFMs. Basicly if you are only spraying a coffee table you wont burn up a smaller compressor. When I spray I generally continously spray untill the pot is empty, then I refill it and start again. So I would need a big quality compressor (not Husky). There is a scarry price difference between a big box 12 CFM and a IR 12 CFM compressor.

   I bought my 4 stage rig about 3 years ago and I did what you are doing. I asked every one their opinions on several sites, there are automotive sites that are very informative also. Most all the old timers recomended a conversion setup. I guess I was sold on the turbine set up because of the portability, and that is what I got. If you search my old posts over the last couple of years you can see how my attitude has gone from touting the advantages, to defending my decesion and now to accepting that I probably didn't spend my $1,000 the smartest way. The portability has been a non issue and I have sinse used various conversion guns from Binks and Sata. They are much better made and they work a lot better. I have heard that Accuspray and Apollo make better guns than my Fuji, but I have looked at them and theye still didn't look or feel as well made as the better conversion guns.

   I am not recomending one or the other, I am only telling you my experience. My only sugestion is that if you want the best setup it is not a turbine based system. But if you want the best setup for $700 to $900 try an Apollo. Check your local Sherman Williams, they sell accuspray (I think) under their name. It is convienet to have local access to parts and service.

   MikePardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

2. 
   bigfootnampa | Aug 01, 2006 07:41am | #5

   Accuspray is IMO the best of available turbine guns.  They make very nice conversion models too.  Get the "Ten gun".   The Accuspray has a very wide range of fan widths and can be adjusted from about a 1" spray width to about 8" or 10".  You have real good control of the material flow too.  The Accuspray Ten gun is the easiest (and cheapest) unit to clean and maintain that I have ever used... BY FAR!  If you are able to invest in the Kremlin AAA (air assisted airless) system (about$2,000.00) that would be even nicer but I don't think you'll do better than the Accuspray anywhere else.

3. 
   donr | Aug 01, 2006 04:53pm | #8

   I have been shooting lacquer with HVLP equipment for ten years.  I believe the advantage of the HVLP over a compressor is the lack of bounce back, and maybe even more importantly, the air is heated and the wet goods dry so fast.  You can put on thin coats that melt into the previous coats and your finish looks great.  You can mix your stail with a vinyl sealer and then top coat with the lacquer and the color is perfect. One problem, don't step on your hose or stall your motion as a slight stall of your spray head will leave a large amount of wet material piled up on one spot.  Here in Atlanta I often have to add a few drops of smoothie and a small teaspoon of retarder because of the humidity.  Keep a spray can of blush eliminator for the few times that you do put a coat on too quickly and the finish blushes.

   Hope that helps.  I also spray with a conventional gun to spray oil based and latex thicker finishes but do my cabinets and projects with lacquer.

    

1. 
   mudman | Aug 02, 2006 07:02am | #9

   Not being picky, I just want to clarify for the poster that HVLP does not mean turbine. There are HVLP guns that run off compressors as well. And they can have the same tip pressure, air velocity and volume. So a good conversion gun will have the same or better bounce back and atomisation charateristics. As far as heating the air stream, it has caused me more problems than benifits. Spraying fast drying lacquers and shellac need a LOT more thinner and retarder to prevent dry fall.

   Again I can't say one is the better choice.... but I think most would agree that the best setups involve a high end conversion gun. But that is a very expensive setup....so.... I am still using my Fuji 4 stage. If it was a bad system I shurley would have replaced it by now.

    Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   dkyle | Aug 02, 2006 09:26pm | #10

   Hello,

   I am new to spraying and did not want to spend a ton of money. My Compressor is a small portable that produces about 4 CFM ( Hitachi Compressor ) At a wood working show i stumbled across the SATA booth and asked if they had anything I could use and they said ..... YES.  They call them touchup guns and it is perfect for my needs. it came with a small cup ( i am guessing Six Ounces??? ) which is an almost perfect amount for me. I am a hobbyist and spray  a table or dresser or book case and have not run out of finish yet.  I believe i could get a bigger cup if i needed it.

   One thing I like is its small size, which helps me get into smaller spaces to spray.  It has worked fine with my compressor and has been very easy to use.

   I was able to get an older SATA gun at the show for $85, but I think their new touchup guns go for $250 or so

    

   Don

1. 
   mudman | Aug 03, 2006 05:28am | #11

   Thats great! Sata makes great guns. Touch up guns can be a good option. The downside is that the fan will not sray a wide, wet coat. So you are typically limited to making a lot more passes, which leads to a more uneven finish.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.