I’ve been rehabbing some Stanley bench planes over the last few months and have learned alot about both how to get them fine tuned and how to clean up ones I used to think were a lost cause (ie citric acid and electrolysis).
I started to take apart a not to uncommon #4(prob type 17 or so) and ran into a problem. The brass nut for the tote screw came off with out removing the rod from the plane bed locking the tote to the bed.
Can I use something like lock-tite to lock the nut back to the screw? Will that damage the brass? Will I ever be able to get them back apart. I’ve never actually used lock-tite on this kind of thing before, just seen it used on auto parts that you don’t ever want to come apart. Any other ideas?
Jimmy W.
Replies
There is no need to do anything, the brass nut doesn't need to be locked onto the rod, they weren't meant to be. Using a locking compound will only cause problems later if you want to ever tighten or loosen the nut.
When you get done cleaning up the plane just screw the nut back on. If you want to remove the rod from the base casting, you can lightly grab onto the rod, on the unthreaded part, with a pair of vise grips and thread it out.
John White
Isn't there a possibility of damaging the threads? I wanted to try that, but didn't want to take the risk of squashing them.Jimmy W.
Are we both talking about the same item? I think you are referring to the 3" to 4" long rod with a 1/2" or so of threading on either end that goes through the rear tote. Usually the rods are only threaded on either end, you should be able to clamp onto the unthreaded mid section and easily unthread to rod from the casting without damaging the threaded sections. Even if the entire rod were threaded only the threading on the two ends is actually used. Unless the plane is heavily corroded the rod should unthread with little effort.John W.
John:
I have a Stanley plane screw problem of a different sort. Have a #5 with a frozen throat adjustment screw. On good advice, I have: soaked it with Parts Blaster for weeks; have frozen the whole thing in my deep freeze; have heated the screw with a torch; and have whacked it a few times with a wooden mallet. Still stuck.
This was a $2 yard sale item, but except for the screw everything has cleaned up very nicely, and there is a narly 100% of the blade left. I'd like to take it back to full functionality. Any ideas?
Joe
Well you've done everything right so far, and apparently haven't chewed up the screw head, which means you still have a good chance of getting the screw out.First of all, is this one of the two screws that go down through the frog casting to attach the frog to the main body? The other possibility is that it is the screw, which your plane may or may not have, behind the frog that adjusts the frog forward or backward to set the mouth opening while the other two screws are loose.If it is one of the two screws that attach the frog to the main body did the other one come loose? Is there heavy rust around the screws as though the plane got soaked in water?John W
John:
The troublesome screw is the one on the back of the frog that adjusts the frog back and forth while the other two screws are loose.
Joe
Some tricks of the trade:The best tool for the job would be an electric impact wrench with a bit that is a very snug fit in the screw slot and is at least as wide as the screw head, you might have to grind down a bit to get a good fit. Clamp the frog in a wooden jawed vise, with a block below the frog to prevent it from sliding downward, and bear down hard on the impact driver so the bit can't cam out of the screw slot. By gradually increasing the tool's torque, the screw will probably break loose. If the screw won't back out on the first attempt, try driving it forward for a moment to break the threads loose and then back it out. If you can get any movement at all, apply some penetrating oil and work the screw back and forth as far as it will turn easily, which will work the oil into the threads. Once the screw starts to move it would be safer to switch to a screwdriver as described below. If you keep working in both directions the screw will eventually free up. The low tech approach, that is almost as likely be as successful as using an impact wrench, is to get a big screwdriver with a square shank that you can put a wrench on. As before, the tip should be a full tight fit in the screw slot and the frog should be well supported in a vise. Now seat the driver in the slot and give the end of the handle a few sharp raps with a steel hammer, while trying to turn the screw. Again, try turning in either direction just to get the screw broken loose. If the first attempt doesn't succeed, slightly escalate the force of the raps and use a wrench on the shank to get some additional torque. Having some assistance at this point helps since you can hold the screwdriver and the wrench and apply the torque while your assistant wields the hammer and applies steady rapping. Obviously there is a limit with either approach, or any approach, some screws will never come loose before the shank breaks or the head strips out.By the way, the adjuster is pretty much a gimmick, the plane can be adjusted just fine without it.Hope this helps, John W.
Thank you kindly, John.
Joe
Sorry John, I guess I wasn't clear enough on what was happening. While trying to remover the tote rod and tote, the brass nut came unscrewed instead of the entire rod, leaving the tote locked onto the bed (due to the angle of the rod and the nub that keeps the tote from twisting). Before I got back online I tried it the way you suggested thinking you wanted me to grab the little bit that I could get to in the top of the tote. Sure enough the threads were mashed by the time the rod came loose from the sole but after some filing I was able to bring them back to usability. I'll probably just order one from Stanley or try and find one in a box of parts on ebay. So do you have any other ideas for in the future if this happens again.Jimmy W.
"leaving the tote locked onto the bed (due to the angle of the rod and the nub that keeps the tote from twisting)"
I am familiar with that . It appears to be a problem , but it is not, and not all of them do it. It depends on how much clearance there is /how straight the hole through the tote is. At any rate, if you find the nut unscrews instead of the rod unscrewing from the bottom,and the tote appears unable to lift off due to the angle as you have said- you can force it off by turning and lifting at the same time. I have done this a few times, in great fear of breaking the base casting, but got away with it. Once it is off you can use a round file to ease the hole in the tote and it will be fine.
P.S. Should you ever wish to locktite brass to steel it is no problem-use the same formula that is for stud or thread locking.
On the planes that I make, I locktite the nut, because due to angle and clearance, plus the shape and angle of the brass base under the tote, it is not possible to slide the tote up the rod.Philip Marcou
Thanks Philip, I had already used a very small pair of needle nose vice grips, which did the job, but mashed the threads a bit. They weren't too bad so I took a file and reshaped them and eased the end a bit, still works fine. I will remember to just lift and twist next time. I was mostly worried about cracking the tote, and though I could have built a new one, I like to keep the originals if I can.BTW, I googled your name and found your web site. Beautiful planes you've built. If only I had more time and money, metal working looks like it would be a great hobby to add to the many I already have.Jimmy W.
Using a scrap of copper to pad the jaws of the Vise Grips will allow you to grab the threads without damaging them if you have to try this again. A small solder plumbing fitting is a good source for the copper pad.As Philip pointed out you can almost always work the tote loose even if the rod is still in place.John W.
It has occurred to me that there is another way which would not involve risk of thread damage or damage to the tote from use of pliers etc: use some Locktite on the nut , screw it in , let it set then use this to hopefully back out the rod from the base. (assuming the locktite or similar is on hand). All of those Locktite compounds are easy to loosen when a little heat is applied, according to my experience with them and to their product chart.Philip Marcou
John, good idea with the copper. Wish I had thought of that before I mashed mine, but again, not a big deal on this plane. Philip, how would you apply the heat, torch? Would that change the color of the brass nut?Jimmy W.
Jimmy, it does not need much heat so even one of those small butane torches is plenty. I don't have my Locktite product chart here but going from memory it only requires something like 200 degrees C.
When you heat brass it changes colour but it is not permanent- it just polishes off back to original.Philip Marcou
I don't think you want to Lock-tite the nut to the rod. Given himidity changes in your shop through the year, the tote will shrink or grow. The nut will then loosen or tighten. Occasionally you may haved to tighten it up. When it is to the point you can't tighten it sufficiently, simply grind a thread off the rod and it will tighten.
Several years ago a Galoot published his methods of retro-fitting a tote with a spring and washer combination to overcome this issue with Bailey style planes. I beleive it was on "George's Basement" website. Maybe someone else can weigh in with more info. Regardless, you don't want to Lock-Tite the nut to the rod.
T.Z.
""I've never actually used lock-tite on this kind of thing before, just seen it used on auto parts that you don't ever want to come apart.""
Just an side........not meant for this plane, but, there are sveral grades of the 'locktite' products out. Some are meant for permanent fastening and some are meant for temporary, with many grades in between. They are usually differentiated by color and called that way on packaging.
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
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