Replies

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 19, 2009 08:19pm | #1

   Depends on how much durability you want and what amount of abuse the table will be subjected to. T&T is a soft and not very durable or watervapor resistant finish. It can make for a nice in-the-wood finish. It's fine if a tablecloth or placemats will be used. Coasters and trivets are a must also.

   Oil based varnish is a much more durable finish that will better stand up to hard use.

   Howie.........
1. 
   mcbil | Jul 19, 2009 08:30pm | #2

   Thanks Howard,
   Now that I did put a coat of T&T on the tabletop that will endure some abuse, what could be my next step: use some coats of oil based varnish or wipe on poly?
   Thaks again
   eric

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 20, 2009 05:22pm | #5

   Which T&T finish did you use? I know you can overcoat their "Danish Oil" and "Varnish Oil". I'm not sure about their "Original Wood Finish". That one contains beeswax and a varnish finish may not want to adhere to it well or at all.As Steve said, let the existing fully cure for a month or more. Then I would scuff sand it with 320 paper sanding in the direction of the grain. Vacuum off the dust and wipe with rag lightly dampened with mineral spirits. Apply at least two coats of a none poly varnish.Howie.........

1. 
   mcbil | Jul 21, 2009 12:58am | #6

   Hi again. It is Tried and True varnish oil ( the one Mr Beckvoorst used on cherry ). They say it is made of polymerized liseed oil and natural resin varnish. That is why I tought I could use it as a top coat because I only focused on the varnish part.... In a store near me I saw a water based varnish for wood. Would that be acceptable ( made of latex based acrylic varnish )?
   Eric

   Edited 7/20/2009 6:00 pm ET by mcbil

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 21, 2009 05:10am | #7

   From where you are now I don't see much point in using a waterborne varnish.  It should be reasonably hard but not really much if any more protective against household chemicals or long term standing moisture. (Does the manufacturers label  actually say latex based acyrlic varnish , in those words on the label??--what specific brand is it by the way?) 

   A good oil based wiping varnish with a traditional resin will give you a much more protective and attractive look. 

    

2. 
   mcbil | Jul 21, 2009 05:21am | #8

   The company is Betonel. It is labeled just like that... Believe me or not ( I live in Canada ) I find hard to find a wiping varnish... Will try to find some waterlox or zar wipe on tung oil.
   Do I have to wait one month before trying to put the varnish ?

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 21, 2009 05:11pm | #9

   >> I find hard to find a wiping varnish.Your best bet is always make your own wiping varnish. Just use your favorite oil based varnish and mix it 50/50 with mineral spirits. That will give you a wiping varnish that will do a good job for you.An added benefit is that making your own is less expensive than buy a pre-made wiping varnish.Howie.........

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 19, 2009 08:47pm | #3

   Howard is right on here.  The T&T Danish Oil is basically just a polymerized linseed oil.  It is polymerized to compensate for the omission of trying agents such as those in boiled linseed oil. 

   It can give a nice looking satin finish, but on a dining table whether it is acceptable depend heavily on how you use the table.  Is this just a special occasion table off in a formal dining room without near daily use?  Do you ALWAYS set glasses on coasters, and use table clothes or placemats?  Is in never used for working on homework, spreading out the tax papers, or other utility jobs.  Do you see marks an discolorations as the normal parts of living?  If you can answer all four questions in the affirmative, then the T&T might be enough. 

   But for any harder usage I recommend a varnish top coat.  (And omitting the Danish oil first would make very, very little difference.)  It should not be polyurethane varnish, but a traditional resin varnish either Alkyd resin (usually in a compound with Soya oil) or a Phenolic Resin (usually modified with tung oil.)  Polyurethane varnish (at least the single part consumer grade polys) is sensitive to the substrate and doesn't add much at all in the way of attractive properties to make up for riskier adhesion and greater difficulties in rubbing out.   

   If you have applied any of the T&T  then give it plenty of curing time before top coating.  I assume you have wiped off all excess thoroughly do you don't have a suface build up. Then slightly scuff sand with 320 grit and apply your varnish top coat, either brushed or thinned to be in wipe on form. 

1. 
   mcbil | Jul 19, 2009 08:52pm | #4

   many thanks Steve. I will do just that. Now you all know that I am not a professionnal woodworker !!! But the info will save my neck ( my wife is counting on that table...)
   Cheers
   Eric

2. 
   GregoryPaolini | Jul 22, 2009 02:18pm | #10

   A conversation similar to this came up in a finishing class I taught this past weekend.

   When ever  I make a table, that I expect to see some use (eg, not an art or sculptural piece), I always like to put Poly on the top.    Despite out best intentions, or those of our house guest, you won't always use a coaster for your glasses, and occasionally a serving bowl or platter will sweat, and cause blushing...

   So, my opinion is to seal the top with a quick coat of dewaxxed shellac.  I buy zinnser seal coat, and thin it down to a 1lb cut (just mix it out of the can 50/50 with alcohol).  This will seal in your oil finish.

   One thing to remember about dewaxxed shellac is, it sticks to anything!  And everything sticks to it, so it makes a great barrier coat.

   Then go ahead an apply your choice of poly .  I usually spray waterborne poly, but you could brush it or wipe it on as well.  Or stick with oil based poly - Just thin the mixture a bit.  For a dining table, I may thin my oil base poly with mineral spirits, paint thinner, or turpentine. 

   Hope this helps!

   Gregory Paolini

   http://www.GregoryPaolini.com

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 22, 2009 04:11pm | #11

   You can use either, but when you make the choice between a waterborne "poly" and and oil-based "poly" the differences are not small.  Both are relatively abrasion resistant. 

   But the waterborne poly isn't nearly as resistant to things like water rings or damage from harsh chemicals as any oil based varnish, poly or not.  The waterborne is usually satisfactory for many uses, but it should be thought of as being more like nitrocellulose lacquer in it's protective properties than like an oil based varnish.  Of course, NC lacquer was the furniture and cabinetry "standard" for many years. 

   Of course, the practical difference is roughly the same one that made NC lacquer the industrial standard for so long.  Waterborne poly is available in versions that are specifically designed for spraying in viscosity and speed of drying.  These can be used well by DIY finishers with makeshift spray booths, while the flammable finishes, especially the two part finishes whose solvents are also fairly toxic are pretty much limited to operations with real spray booth facilities. 

2. 
   Gretchen | Jul 22, 2009 05:10pm | #12

   Or you can use a non-poly varnish and not have to worry about any adherence problems. There really is another choice than polyurethane--and it can be a lot more pleasing as a final "look" on the wood.  ;o)Gretchen

1. 
   mcbil | Jul 26, 2009 10:22pm | #13

   To keep ypu guys updated, I applyied a coat of Behr scandinavian tung oil on the table and legs. I left it alone for more than 24 hours ( humidity controlled to about 45 % ) and tried to buff it with a 400 grit paper. It was still like plastic, very flexible ( made me think more of a "long oil " finish. I scraped the whole thing to wood. One peice of the table was not touched for more than 3 days with almost the same result...That's why I took the finish out.
   Sealing with shellac is a good idea. It will be faster for me to begin putting the top coats. There is a zillion brand of poly finish. The only other oil/varnish finish I found is watco danish oil. I will brush my finish, I don't have a spray booth yet!
   I feel I am turning in circle here. Finish is a world by itself.

   Edited 7/26/2009 4:34 pm ET by mcbil

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 27, 2009 04:36am | #14

   My Grandfather used to tell me when he finished constructing a piece - now I'm halfway there.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   mcbil | Jul 27, 2009 02:53pm | #15

   He was a wise man. My hat down to those who feel confortable finishing a piece. I am now reading th book from Mr Jewitt, I will learn many things there but then I will have to try those things in the real world... But at least I understand more your tips. Many thanks again.

2. 
   Don01 | Jul 28, 2009 08:20pm | #16

   Eric,I assume you applied the Behr product over the Tried & True?
   Unfortunately you left the Behr product on for about 23.5 hours to long in the first case. At least according to the can I have and my experience with many "tung" oil products including this one.
   Like the Tried & True, this is a penetrating finish. It is suppose to penetrate into the wood and harden there. It is not formulated to form a barrier on the surface.
   You are to keep the surface saturated for 15 -20 minutes, then wipe off using some serious elbow grease and lots of clean rags.
   Left for over an hour it starts to get ugly, after 2 or 3 days yuck!
   Be sure to throw the rags in a pail of water when done.Don

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Jul 30, 2009 01:04am | #17

   >> I applyied a coat of Behr scandinavian tung oil on the table and legsWhy? That is an entirely inappropriate thing to do at this point unless you used a paint stripper and removed all the prior finishes. Scraping or sanding the prior finish off is not enough. The Behr product is an oil/varnish mixture product similar to Watco and many others. It is a penetrating finish that needs to be applied to a virgin wood surface. You should not apply it over another finish that has effectively sealed the surface. In addition, it should be wiped, let sit for 15 minutes and then wiped as dry as you can get it. You don't just brush it on like you would a film finish. You are getting to the point where the only choice is to use a chemical paint stripper an totally remove all the finishes you have on your project. Then start over. My final suggestion at this point is to aggressively rub the surface with mineral spirits and 3/0 steel wool. Wipe in the direction of the grain. Wipe off the resulting gunk with lots of paper towels. Let it dry for a couple of days. It it dries hard, good. Apply a coat of dewaxed shellac and let it dry 24 hours. Now apply a couple of coats of a wiping varnish. Watco and Minwax both make a product called "Wiping Varnish". Only use a product labeled "Wiping Varnish". Or, make your own by mixing varnish or poly varnish 50/50 with mineral spirits. Wipe it on smoothly and make only a very light coat. Let it dry to the touch and apply another wiped on coat. Then let the whole thing dry and you are done.Howie.........

1. 
   mcbil | Jul 30, 2009 04:17am | #18

   Thanks Howie. i came out to the same conclusion. Fortunately I am loosing only time here and the project is not destroyed!
   And then..... I will try to rub out very gently like I read in the book from Mr Jewitt.
   Please before I do another stupid thing feel free to give me some advice.
   Eric