Hi,
I mostly lurk here at Knots (wandered over from Breaktime).
Judge for yourselves, but the Dewalt Contest has turned from a test of craftsmanship into a popularity contest (whoever has the most cyber buddies wins).
The leader right now built 3 boxes (nice boxes, but boxes). Compare that to the project in second place… a spiral staircase. I think the stair job (by Stan Foster) is much more worthy of votes, but the toy kitchen pics have a cute kid in them.
If you agree with me, check it out, register and vote for best carpentry and for the good of our trade (you can vote 3 times per day):
Thank You,
Basswood
Replies
"(you can vote 3 times per day)"
Sounds like it's being run by old-time Chicago Democrats - vote early, vote often. ;-)
Now that you mention it, the top two contestants are both from Illinois... Hmmm.
Gotta say if the contest is based on popular vote and the toy kitchen is leading, it's just not plain worth competing in. And makes the competition essentially worthless in terms of recognizing professional achievement. Sort of like putting work in a Gallery. I wouldn't want my work displayed next to some rubber stamped arts and crafts stuff. Just lowers the value of my work being placed next to it.
I see your point, but there is no way to know that, 'til after you finished your project and the voting starts.Several other projects are noteworthy, I just think Stan Fosters curved stairs are up a notch or two, from even the good stuff in the competition.By posting, some of us hope to correct the problem, and get more votes for the best work.Regards, Bass
Hey, who let you in here? ;o)
those are my exact thoughts, that's why i vote 3 times a day every day
m/ (>.<) m/
http://www.cocoboloboy.co.nr
Vote on!
"I know noooothing!" said in my best Sgt. Schultz.
another bump & multiple votes for Stan!
Here's a link to stans page in the contest.
http://www.dewalt.com/us/top17/finalists.aspx?projectID=109
Register and vote often!
As the The Dems said in the last election "Vote early vote often" Stan I went and voted for ya.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Hey, who's this Bump character!?
I aint seen no post from him.............
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
bump.
Vote for Stan!
Cheers,
Bass
I think I'll do that right now.
Thanks,
hit and run <g>
Sorry, I found the DeWalt site fiddly and it really tried my patience. A little like their tools, I guess. I don't have the patience or time to screw around with looking at the projects. Someone needs to fix that site--it's a mess.
You are right. Poor website...goofy.Really bad for dial up, I would imagine.
Agreed, bad site, BS method for judging, letting yourself in for a ton of spam, having to look at a bunch of bumps from people shilling for their favorite, etc.
And worse yet should you win you will have to figure out how to dispose of the garbage they will send you.
It is a very nice staircase and many of the other submissions were good also, however I decline to prostitute my vote in order for any of them to get a gift of garbage.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
"Judge for yourselves, but the Dewalt Contest has turned from a test of craftsmanship into a popularity contest (whoever has the most cyber buddies wins)".. basswood
Yep.... that pretty much sums it up. I post at the other place he got many of his votes and when I saw the pictures of the entry I was kind of shocked. But... when I found out he was in the lead... well... what can I say. I would personally withdraw as it clearly points out to me that net-working on the inter-net has much power and the fact that DeWalt allows anyone to vote 3 times a day by just signing up translates to basically a farce.
I have two bronze stars and a purple heart I got in a contest in Vietnam. I would hate to think I got them on a popularity vote or the fact the Department of Army allowed them to be given with loose terms of how you got them.
I think it dis-graceful that how the gentleman got in the lead put himself in that position with his entry... and dis-graceful that Dewalt allowed it. Again... the other work is great but the contest is nothing but a farce at this point. A pure farce and I have no intention of voting 3 times a day. What a joke...
Good luck to the real entries...
Sarge..
Has anybody else noticed we (the knots crowd) really dislike contests. We have a long history of REALLY complaining about various contests (deserving shop, 17bd challenge). To the point they've had to close down threads!
In the end Dewalts contest is a site networking event. How many people can you encourage to come to our site... That's what its about, so why do we expect it to be more serious than that. In the end some dude will get a meaningless title and a bunch of tools.
Yep... the young man that is leading is not a trim carpenter but an employee of State Farm Insurance. He already got some DeWalt tools at IWF when he had the lucky number for a large door prize when DeWalt sponsored a seminar hosted by Norm. He won the tracked circular saw system and some other goodies.
As I said the contest is nothing more than a way of advertising and luring you to their site. The 3 vote a day... everyday is the first tell if you happen to be a poker player. Who's going to win... whomever has the best entry? Nope.. whoever has the most votes which relates to who is the best net-work artist on-line since the contest is on-line.
A serious contest would have used know-ledgeable.. un-biased judges to declare the winner. But that doesn't get anybody on the site so... they create what amounts to a farce and a joke and as we used to say in the miltary.. a cluster-****....
Sarge..
Got a regular Cynic Clinic going in here.
I'm not impressed with how Dewalt has run their contest, and I am not pleased that the best work is not in the lead, but I appreciate Stan and his efforts.
There are several worthy projects, and IMO Stan Fosters curved stairs are beautifully crafted and a notch above the others.
He also provides an excellent project journal. Look into it. He uses simple, inexpensive, tools, cleaver methods and skill. Stan has no trade secrets and has always been generous with advice to fellow carpenters and woodworkers.
Lets, help to redeem the contest, to some degree, and vote for a worthy project and contestant.
Regards,
Bass
Not just a cynic guy at all. Just saying that the competition Stan is in isn't a good venue for him to be displaying his work on a national level. He'd be better off publishing a book through Taunton Press that would earn him respect in an audience that respects higher end work. The contest is a farce as someone else mentioned and is used as a marketing gimmick to get people to their website on a daily basis.When his work is posted next to a guy that built a few boxes and that gentleman is winning it has a lot to say about the contest. I don't think Stan has to win anything or win some contest to prove himself to us or anyone else that he is an extremely capable and talented craftsman. His work speaks for itself.
I can't disagree with you. Too bad DeWalt did not invite some prestigious builders to recommend some trim carpenters to enter the contest. Stan should be up against 16 others with similar talent.As it stands, the Breaktimers among us, are familiar with Stan, his work, his helpfulness, and his great attitude. I would like to think that even those without our bias, can see his work and the way he presented it and think his project worthy of support.To me it does not matter that the contest is flawed, I will still give my support to the guy.Regards,Bass
The real reason I've been putting extra effort into supporting Stan is that the alternative is spending more time working on my foundation and it is 10* outside here at the present time. ;o)
Just 'fessing up,
Bass
I'm in, nothing like having a little fun skewing the odds... I voted for stan and will do so again several time this evening. :-) Jim
Why not have all of the people that admire his work and value his contributions in helping others write a letter saying so and send it to him?
He certainly does not need a ribbon from a BS contest and he certainly does not need any junk tools.
A collection of letters and testimonials from fellow woodworkers would probably mean much more to him personally and since they could be incorporated in a website or portfolio would be far more valuable professionally.
Whats he going to be able to say about the Dewalt award? Hey look at me, I beat out a bunch of garage shop amateurs? Hey look at me, some of my buddies got 10 people to vote 300 times apiece for me in order to win this meaningless contest? Is that going to make potential customers want his product?
It's no wonder he has not asked for our help, I would'nt either. He not only shows a lot of talent but better sense than his friends.
You are of course free to continue this charade, but in my humble opinion you are not only missing the boat, you are busily wallowing about in the mud at the end of the pier.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
Up for a game of charades? ;o)
My that was a well thought out rebuttal, hope you did'nt strain yourself. Care to discuss the points I put forth?
Don't bother praying for me, I live in the real world not the fantasy ones. Let me guess, Sarah Palin is your heroine? Jerry Falwell is your hero? The earth is flat and the sun revolves around it?
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
Well I already figured out you were not too bright, thanks for letting me know you are dishonest too. I will e-mail the contest immediately to have my illegitimate proxy votes removed. I will include any information I can glean from breaktimes search history that might prove useful in exposing your identity.
In addition, since I use my real name here I will notify all relevant law enforcement authorities and webmasters of your theft and misuse of my identity.
I take a very dim view of fraud and identity theft.
This is not a joke and I am not trying to be funny.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
OK, you two take it outside.As the original poster of this thread, I would like you to kindly delete your venomous posts and go after a king with a club, or strangle inspiration with the entrails of a priest, or whatever it is that you do... just do it somewhere else.Thanks
Edited 12/5/2008 11:13 pm ET by basswood
Not A Chance.
I posted a thoughtful message and was rewarded with fraud and identity theft.
I am willing to have a conversation civil or otherwise without involving others.
Use my name for fraud and you have forfeited.
Having been the victim of identity theft I now have zero tolerance, I don't care if it's a contest or my bank account. It is beyond the pale.
I'm not accusing you, just giving my reasoning.
If you wanted to keep your conspiracy private you should have contacted your aquaintances, not posted on a public forum.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
WOW.Calm down. In my view, you and mhole have both slipped into some rather juvenile behavior here.I took some time this morning to read about 150 of your posts in the archives, and this latest outburst seems a bit out of character. The record here, in my limited sample, shows you to often be blunt and sometimes rude or insulting, but usually rational (a notable exception was your praise for Carolina boots--from a man with the White boot company in your back yard).Knots is self-described as a community, try to look for opportunities to support your fellow woodworkers, rather than the needless critical ranting that precipitated this. Looks to me like you have killed a well-intentioned thread. I'm just shaking my head and thinking of having the whole thing deleted (or at least my posts). I want nothing to do with this mess.Die dulci fruere.
This is the applicable statute in my state.
Class C felony
Violation of this section when the accused or an accomplice uses the victim's means of identification or financial information and obtains an aggregate total of credit, money, goods, services, or anything else of value in excess of $1,500 in value shall constitute identity theft in the first degree. Identity theft in the first degree is a class B felony.Violation of this section when the accused or an accomplice uses the victim's means of identification or financial information and obtains an aggregate total of credit, money, goods, services, or anything else of value that is less than $1,500 in value, or when no credit, money, goods, services, or anything of value is obtained shall constitute identity theft in the second degree. Identity theft in the second degree is a class C felony.
My screen name and e-mail address are my means of identification. mhole is an accomplice.
Like I said, I have no tolerance for fraud or identity theft.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
I have received two very nice e-mails from Stan.
As I suspected he is an honorable professional.
You on the other hand have no honor and I will seek to have you prosecuted until I am either dead or can no longer scrape up the money to pursue the matter. I assure you I would rather have you prosecuted than eat.
I have copied and referred all relevant posts to the local PD and our states attorney general. You are without honor and have commited a class c felony in this state.
Unless I recieve a public apology from you and verifiable assurance that you have rectified this grevious matter I will pursue your prosecution.
I would consider an apology on this forum and a promise from you not to commit this offense again sufficient to meet the above requirements.
I again assure you that I consider identity theft and fraud a very serious matter and urge you to resolve this matter.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
Ok.
D, You have my appology.
I was just pushing your buttons. We play alittle different over at Breaktime and I should not have swung so hard over here.
I did not register your name at dewalt. I did not vote for you. Once again, I was just pokin' back.
I actually do have sympathy for the fact that you have had to go through and ID issue in the past. I can only imagine that it is a hard thing to go through. I am sure that my statements were, taken harsher than I intended them, I meant no harm.
I called Stan and appologised to him for the time he had to take to deal with this.
Another lesson learned in internet communication I hope.
I removed my posts in an attempt to not have my words cause any further issue.
Sorry. J.
mhole- Thanks so much for clearing this up. Now I wont have to call DeWalt and have them needlessly looking for votes that arent there anyway.
It is hard communicating correctly on any forum. I have had my share of misunderstandings...its just hard to communicate correctly.
Anyway...thanks for the phone call and I hope all the votes continue to remain clean for all of us contestants.
Stan
You guys are just losing it, identity theft on an anonymous style forum, wow! And I thought we were all friends here. Oh, and for the record mhole, deleting your post #42 just makes it seem worse since no one can read what you wrote and find out why dgreen is so upset. You should actually delete all of your posts on this thread if thats how you are going to play with the other kids. Bob
Oy vey!
Oy vey!
Struck a note here..
I once had a Jewish girlfriend that... Her father would not let us carry on as we were.. Fathers good? I was one but sometimes harsher than I should have been. Maybe he was also..
First time I walked up to her she hugged me and said Oy vey!.. I think it was a good thing..
We had to part to keep her dad.. Whatever he wanted. I think she and I parted as friends.. I found my wife later.. She was wonderful and then some.. She knew my Jewish girlfriend.. And always told me when she was pissed at me..
I was second best? I think in fun? Never understood anything any woman has said to me!
Wow, i figured you were just pullng his chain when you posted that. Struck a nerve I guess.
Stan deserves all the support he can get. He's a stand up guy and a talented craftsman. He has asked for support and I would think that anyone that works wood with any degree of proficiency would see that his work is a step above most of the other projects represented and support him in his effort.
Everyone--- I was made aware of this site and asked to go on and respond. Please.....this is my first post here. I am one of the contestants in the DeWalt contest and have steadfastedly and repeatedly asked everyone to go to http://www.dewalt.com/top17 and view all the projects. There are some dandies...Brad McFarland, Jim Butz and Doc Holliday are my personal favorites. But please consider these fine guys efforts and the others including mine...and vote for the one that best exemplifies a top finish carpenter in your mind.
Also...anyone voting for me ,.,.please all i ask for is one vote per person. Do not be entering your pets etc. I want to earn every vote and would rather finish a clean 17th position..than win this thing by one dirty vote. All 17 of us have already won...and I feel blessed to be in such fine company.
I feel its a good contest...and yes...i would prefer actual judges wuth ON site visits to view and judge our projects. In my case...poor photography can make all my joints look superb. You just dont know till you are looking with your own eyes...feeling with your fingers...and adjusting your head to see different light reflections to truly find if its a masterpiece or not.
Anyway...I hope everyone sees that all of us have put a lot of effort into this contest...and hopefully you all will feel a little better by going over and voting for the many excellent displays of what I feel do exemplify top finish carpentry work.
Stan Foster dual curved stairway entry from Illinois
Edited 12/6/2008 8:12 am ET by StanFoster
I want to add that after dgreen e-mailed me concerning his e-mail address being used for voting..without his permission...that upset me a bunch. This is the only one that I am aware of...and please guys...I only want votes that are backed up by an e-mail...WITH the owners permission.
I am calling the head guy in this contest at DeWalt Monday morning asking him to remove all votes cast under dgreens e-mail address.
This one incident takes the whole sparkle out of this for me.....and I would probably guess there is similar actions going on with other people trying to help other contestants.
I take this personally and will repeat once again....everyone interested in this contest..go to http://www.dewalt.com/top17 , view the many fine projects...several of which I believe deserve to win...and then vote for the one you want to win. If for some chance you have chosen me.....Please.....one vote per person....and if you have 6 e-mail addresses..and two in your household...dont let your pets vote...or yourself vote more than once...
Thats all I ask and everyone have a good Christmas.
Stan Foster.....dual curved stairway entry.
Edited 12/6/2008 8:13 am ET by StanFoster
Stan.. you don't know me and I really don't know you. But... I do know the other guy that is leading the contest as I met him when I demonstrated machines for Steel City Toolworks at the International WW Fair in Atlanta in August. Steel City hosted the forum as a hospitality booth the young gentlemen post on and solicited votes on.
I went to the DW site and looked at all entries and think your's is the most outstanding even though two of the trim guys are from my home state of Georgia. For that matter all the contestants work is more on a professional level than the young gentleman leading the contest. He is not a trim carpenter but works for State Farm in their HQ in Illinois.
I cannot fault him for soliciting votes but frankly even though I told him in a post on that site I voted for his for encouragement... I did not as that would be un-ethical IMO to do so. The work is fine for a hobbyiest attempting to please his young daughter as I am sure he did please her. But.. it is mere entry level compared to the other contestants that were chosen. Why he entered knowing that I cannot say but I will say it was clever as he knew he had a chance to win due to how the contest is being judged.
Basically... when I was in the miltary years ago... this is a example of what we reffered to as a classic "cluster-***k" and I can think of no better example. DW set up the contest and made it a farce from day one by allowing anyone to register and vote 3 times a day over the inter-net. As you now know... any e-mail address (and some of these computer junkies have numerous ones) can vote daily three times a day. We don't vote for our president that way and there is a reason which is self explanatory as you can see.
To conclude... regardless of who wins the flawed and totally in-accurate vote count contest DW set up... you shine brightly among the contestants for both your craftsman-ship and your character which in my neck of the woods the latter is far more important than the first when the final vote is tallied.
Highest regards....
Sarge.. john thompson
John: Its posts just like yours that make me glad I entered this contest. Sure...I want to win , I am a competitive person. But having received over 45 such comments from all over...well...I can place 17th and won far more of value.
Thanks so much everyone....now....there still are a lot of projects over at the contest site to be worthy of what my definition of Top Finish Carpenter is. Please go over and vote for the one.
Stan
You're quite welcome and clearly deserve praise. I have been an amateur WW since 72' and spend around 6-10 hours a day in my shop since retirement last year. I post on 3 forums on coffee breaks when I come up and really don't have time to jump on the DeWalt forum to vote.
But... with that said I do believe that the contest will go on regardless! So... I have one e-mail address, I will take the time to vote 3 times a day as those are "their rules" regardless of the fact that I feel it should be judged by un-biased professionals.
Gotta run... Voting time and I sure hope the polling booths aren't crowded.. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Sarge..
Edited 12/6/2008 11:41 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge: I dont deserve any more praise than dozens of others I see here on the forums I frequent. I see all kinds of superb craftsmanship that makes me shake my head in awe.
I go into Chicago and Indianapolis once in awhile and check out the megamansions that demand top craftsmanship...true masters or someone else will do it. Thats when I come back feeling pretty small. But...these humbling to me visits of what I define as masters are a catalyst to me and cause me to try harder and strive to duplicate what I have seen. I will never be a master...but consider myself proficient at what I do.
I do see several worthy projects of being on top....and I ask for all 17 of us to just go to http://www.dewalt.com/top17 and vote for your favorite.
Stan dual curved stair entry
Edited 12/7/2008 9:18 am ET by StanFoster
I wouldn't sell yourself short of master craftsman from what I saw, Stan. And yes... there is some very nice work from the others indeed. I once did a 100' semi-round show-room counter for a "muscle-car" restoration company I worked for as the pro's wanted a bit much $$. I got a little mental help on the curves from Oddessy Design but once completed, I understood why the professionals price was that high.
Even though I enjoyed the challenge, I do believe I will leave the major curves and spirals to you guys who have honed it as it is a major challenge and task to a solid wood furniture guy. I had an uncle who pasted in the late 50's that could produce that kind of work. He worked out of two wooden tool boxes... one 4' and one 3'. Until the mid 50's he never owned a power tool until he purchased a PC circular saw which I just found out from his son a few days ago. He is the reason I got interested in this craft.
Again... gotta run and will hit the voting booth on the way to the shop just before us NFL addicts have to have our "pig-skin fix" for the week... ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 12/7/2008 10:03 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 12/7/2008 10:04 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge and others.....I wont feel right until I get this off my chest. I am honored to have made the cut to the Top17. Do I consider this group actually the Top 17 in the country? Of course not! The best are still out there in the trenches turning out masterpieces...not entering contests. They dont need to. They know they are at a level that many attain.....
I occasionally go to large cities like Chicago and Indianapolis and visit some Mega homes where superior craftsmanship is demanded. In my small area of expertise...curved stairways...I have seen stairways that I thought GOD himself had built. I find my self crawling back into my small stairshop, all pressed down..but still proud. I have a catalyst burning then and I feel the only one I can beat is myself....so I enter the competition against myself and try to beat my last project. And so the cycle goes. I have a LOT to learn....and just being in this group of 17 and doing quite well....I know all to well that the real winners are still out there. Many could and should be in my shoes....but you have to enter to win her.....so here I am. Please go to http://www.dewalt.com/top17 and view the many fine entries and vote for your favorite.
Excuse my rant,...but I just HAD to get that off my chest.
Stan Foster
dual curved stairway entry
As much interest that this particular contest has drawn with the controversy involved... hopefully everyone will become wiser in the future regardless of who wins. And I totally agree that there is a ton of great trim work out there that most will never see.
It's the same with furniture building... there is a Guild here in Georgia that has some extremely talented WW's that can equal any. But... they just build and don't seek out the lime-light letting their work speak for itself.
Good luck...
Sarge..
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