Replies

1. 
   rslatm | Nov 24, 2002 03:31am | #1

   One can't season timber in water. It can last for years on the bottom of lakes but it still needs to be seasoned by kiln drying or air drying.

   Rick

1. 
   jonsherryl | Nov 24, 2002 06:01am | #3

   Rick, I don't think B&G means "seasoning" in the sense of drying out the wood. It is possible to leach out some of the wood's extractives by submerging it in running water and then (as the theory goes) it dries faster and with less degrade once the actual seasoning process begins. Steaming wood prior to beginning the kiln drying process is a known technique that is sometimes used on woods that are otherwise difficult to kiln dry.

   As for B&G's question, I think holm oak is a member of the red oak group...meaning the pores aren't loaded with tyloses...so, whatever benefits might come from leaching should happen relatively quickly. I've never tried this technique (I think it's used more in Europe), but I'd guess, if there's good water flow, it shouldn't take more than a month or so.  Letting an oak log go much longer than that, especially if the water has a lot of dissolved iron in it, might cause some gray staining, due to iron-tannin reaction.

   I'd like to learn more about how the Europeans play this game...so, I hope we get some posts from over there.

1. 
   rslatm | Nov 24, 2002 05:16pm | #4

   My background is more toward furniture making and machine repair and I'm working at a timberframing company so I'll do come checking with the guild and other sources. Isn't this a post more suited to the FHB crowd? Also Japan is big on timberframing and would be a good source for information. We've been dealing with submerged timbers from Lake Superior and saw and dry them for flooring. As far as I know is being underwater has preserved them. I'm sure the cool temperature and lack of light and oxygen is a factor but I've never read anything on water to help season. Talk at shop lately is big on Vacuum kilns which are supposed to dry the wood from the inside out which is less degrading to timber and relatively faster than other ways of drying. We've tried microwave kilns as well. I hear in one instance a kiln got damaged from the mineral salts that were present in a former submerged oak timber. Same as putting metal in a microwave.

   Rick

1. 
   bobhallsr | Nov 25, 2002 09:45am | #5

   I've had old sawyers tell me that they used to soak black walnut logs in the mill pond untill the sap wood colored up. I've never heard of doing this with any other wood.

   BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland

2. 
   fredsmart48 | Nov 25, 2002 10:14am | #6

   vacuum lowers the boiling point of water so if you get a 30 inch of vacuum water will boil at 90° degrees if I remember right.

2. 
   felloes | Nov 26, 2002 12:42am | #7

   Yes Jon,

   We understand that by leaving logs in water, the sap is replaced by water which makes it easier to season in the conventional way, but how do you know it has been in the water long enough.

   If you hang a magnet in the down spout of guttering will this take out the iron which will stain the timber?!

   We appreciate everyone's responses on this subject.

1. 
   jonsherryl | Nov 26, 2002 03:10am | #8

   B&G, I think you can pocket the magnet and head for the pub. It isn't going to suck the iron out of water.

2. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 24, 2002 04:48am | #2

   What are you trying to do? If you are building a timber frame house as I am, don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!

     Please don't!

     you don't know how much work you are creating for yourself.

           The very next timberframe I build is gonna be from the greenest wood possible.

      Saw blades will last ten times longer, planing will be a simple  ten minute process rather than a 8 hour battle, It will be much easier to cut mortice pockets and the tools will stay sharp much longer,  the timbers when they come off the mill are nice and straight, after a few years of drying they are first cousin to a pretzel.

     OK they will be twice as heavy.  Ok, they won't be ready to varnish right away.

      Yes you will probably get more checks in the timbers.....

     But  

     Next timberframe will be green!