If any of you track cookies in your browser, you’ll have noticed that Taunton writes to five, by my count, cookies on your local hard disk:
wa.taunton.com
taunton.com
reg.taunton.com
login.prospero.com
a.taunton.com
and hits them about 30-40 times before any single page opens. Only eBay does more. I realize they want to do data-mining on us, but doesn’t this seem excessive?
Replies
I know they do a lot. I would like to be able to view the site from my Blackberry but because of those dang cookies I cant' Hey tauton, how about cutting us some slack!
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Renaldus Magnus
Bones,
I have the same problem. http://www.Lumberjocks.com will run on a blackberry Pearl
Taigert
Yes, why is that?
Two possibilities: the less objectionable one is that without cookies it would be far far more difficult for a server-based app to manage a user's movement across pages of a modestly complicated web app such as this forum, which has many subpages and frames. Doing so is simpler, on this view-- it also allows the server to collect data from users on which pages are most seen, for example, and--all important--which ads users click on (for which Taunton gets paid). Taunton would argue it's good for us, and at the same time it's good for them. We get what we want, they make money.
The more objectionable one is that tracking information can also be sold to other third parties. They already do this, in effect, by passing through click data.
My question is why they need so many and hit them so often. If intentional, see above. If not, the answer is "bad coding or bad design."
There is new Federal legislaiton coming that forces website owners to respect user privacy more than they have in the past. I know any number of websites that work just fine with cookies turned off completely. If people knew how much was being collected about their viewing habits, they might be less charitable about that collection in the future.
Thanks for the explanation.
It’s interesting to know that Taunton Press is doing this.
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By the way, if you go to the very bottom of the home page you can click on Privacy Policy that goes through what they do with info in some detail.
"The more objectionable one is that tracking information can also be sold to other third parties." I can't see any harm in this as long as "personally identifying information" is not included. And I am certain that it is not, because my mailboxes would be flooded if Taunton was giving out my name, email, home address, etc.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Maybe it's just me, then. I wouldn't mind it quite as much if they had one cookie and hit it every time any element loads into the page, which is what eBay does. I do notice on some pages that when the ad loads, the advertiser wants to write a cookie, which I object to; if I click on their ad, then they'll get a hit; if I don't, then stay off my view. Most people have dozens if not hundreds of cookies they have no idea about, some of them mining continuously, and if they don't run SpyBot, they'd never know. Cumulatively, this an awful lot of network traffic. Thirty hits to five cookies to load a page? C'mon.
I think many people don’t know or don’t want to know, or don’t care that this is happening, blindly trusting others to protect their privacy.
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I agree with you, this is a concern.
Cookies are small (max 4096 bytes, IIRC) and rather dumb. One do-all cookie would be more like a wedding cake, which would have to re-written in its entirety each time a single element of data changed. So, cookies are probably more efficient. I agree, however, that running utilities to check for malicious ones is advisable. Future development of the wwW (world wide WoahMamma) may provide for cookies, pies, and cakes. ;-)
Do the ads come from another server (not Taunton's)?? If so, there's a program you can install that will block them from even downloading. Don Green sent it to me awhile back, I probably still have the link.
Did you check out those links I posted above? I'm seriously considering signing up (or whatever it is you do).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yes, they come from ad servers. Taunton's just a pass-through, like everybody else. Thank you for the two links. On the first one, the Google, I didn't do it because I turned cookies off to begin with. I want to see who wants a piece of me. It complicates loggin in to a lot of places, but OTOH I have fewer than 20 that I autoaccept, and in three months SpyBot has not found a single thing to complain about. Not one. My rule of thumb is that if they allow third-party cookies (as Taunton does for Prospero) or hit it more than eight times to open a page, I block it permanently. But, then again, that's just me. On your second one, the NAI, I didn't see the point. They don't stop the ads, they only disable the cookies on your machine that are already there. Unless I misunderstood, they don't post a database row to their server that tells all their advertisers not to hit you with a cookie before an ad or a page--that'd be a massive hit to their servers. Educate me if you think that's wrong.
Maybe I'm just overreacting to the four calls a day I get about car warranties or credit cards.........to phone numbers that are on the Do Not Call list.
"My question is why they need so many and hit them so often. If intentional, see above." Terry, I've never been sure, but have often wondered if cookies are the mechanism by which we get "Unread messages to me" and "I've recently seen" and "High priority" messages. I certainly appreciate that feature, as it makes browsing this forum much more efficient that all the others I've visited.
I don't get excited about cookies from a site like Taunton, as I know from the lack of spam that they're not causing me problems with them. I don't mind contributing to their statistics -- no harm, no foul.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I turn my cookies on to login, then immediately turn them off. As long as you don't quit your browser or logout, things work fine. Sometimes the placeholder in some threads gets messed up, but I can live with that to keep the cookies off.
That sounds like a good idea.
BD,I do a similar thing but when I block any of the Google sites, it shuts down the search results to an empty page. Forces you to give Google (Google.com, Google-analytics.com and Googlesyndication.com) information. Not happy with that little item. Also, since they tied in with Google the search results are atrocious and scattered.Boiler
Exerpt from Google's Privacy Center page. I haven't tried this "tool" so can't testify as to it's effectiveness or useability:
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/27/2009 12:09 pm by forestgirl
FG,
Thanks for that. I have it installed. Things are a little smoother. Never happy with letting things going through a 3rd party. Taunton may be cool but they can never guarantee the next guy's use of data. May not get email from Taunton but do you know if the spam is coming from a third party of a third party...?Kind of like I used ta get a "tube of hangaber" from Safeway. Used to say made in Clackamas, Oregon, USA. Now it says Made in Clackamas, Oregon USA, Product of USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Had one that also had and EU. Now we have FDA meat inspectors here(USA)--at least 3 of 'em, but who, if any, inspect in all the rest? And we wonder why we have spam and salmonella... :>)Prefer my cookies to be chocolate chip on a plate.Boiler
"May not get email from Taunton but do you know if the spam is coming from a third party of a third party...?" I get next to zero spam, period. Have e-mail accounts with Earthlink and Comcast. Occasionally, a slug of it will come through Earthlink in a period of a week, but not often. I don't use the highest spam settings with either of them (that thing where only people you approve can get their email through). I have my spam-filter preferences set to the middle setting.
OTH, my husband gets scads of it. I suspect it's because of all the sites he visits relative to eBay auctions he's interested in, as that's mostly what he uses the computer for.
As to the hangaber, yes our food supply is rather globalized. I don't know if the labelling is showing you a change in where the hangaber came from, or whether it's just more accurate than it once was. Perhaps a little of both. The tube is "assembled" in Oregon, but the stuff comes from wherever they can get the best deal I guess.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You using G-mail or some other features? I use Google all the time for searches, Google Earth, etc. & don't have a problem with cookies turned off.It may have to do with your email/ISP provider, too. I know little about the stuff, but I use Verizon for my email. If I want to use their email tool instead of the Mac Mail software, I have to have cookies turned on. I get around that by using the Mac Mail as a POP client. That's about the extent of my knowledge.
I really wouldn't get stressed out by Tauntons cookies - I've never had any problems as a result of them being used. Besides I like rhubarb pie with strawberry ice cream better anyway.
Email on the other hand is another matter. I use a WEB based email service so it stays off my 'puter. Outlook Epress I don't think soooooooooooooo.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I have third party cookies turned off. Sometimes, maybe a third of the time, Knotts locks up during long on because of this. I don't really give a rat's #### who advertises here but if they want access to my computer they can pay me too. Between the hassle with third party cookies and having everyone in the recent lynch mob, including you Bob, this place is becoming less and less worth the hassle.
Larry,
everyone in the recent lynch mob, including you Bob
Care to explain that one?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=46826.1http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=46867.1
Seeing as you have me on ignore, I can't email you as I feel that is the proper way to deal with this. I fail to see my connection with your alleged lynch mob.
Regards,
P.S. I'm not hiding behind any ignore button.Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I haven't been hiding behind anything, Bob. I do choose who I associate with and, I assume, it's the reason the option exists. I decided to exercise that option after seeing a couple hundred nefarious personal attacks posted accusing another of a personal attack. There was definitely a mob mentality and it was actively fed by some moderators of this forum.e-mail away
LW, I have 3rd party cookies turned off also, I get logged on automatically (my Favorites shortcut takes me straight to Knots messages page) and I've never had a problem arriving at the page. Seems like there might be something else going on?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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