Talcum powder for machine surfaces?
woodlark
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I just read in an old (1970’s?) Powermatic 66 manual that they recommend treating tablesaw tops with talcum powder applied with a blackboard eraser. The claim is that it will keep the surface slick, block out moisture, and not effect finishes. In this era of Boeshield and the like, I don’t really plan on trying this – but has anyone tried it? It might be little wierd to have my machinery smell like my kids after I changed their diapers.
Replies
I have used talcum powder for 40 + years.The more you use it ,the longer it lasts.If I am ripping on the tablesaw all day long,I generally only renew the talcum powder one time from the initial coat.I use a small power feeder,makes the boards go thru without a hitch.I can tell right away when I need to renew the talcum powder,boards start to slip and the power feeder won't push them thru easily.
mike
Works great but I couldn't get it to completely stop rust. So now I Top-Coat, then talc, then HTC machine covers. Couldn't seem to get the rust 99% licked without using all 3.
If you build it he will come.
Where does one get "Top-Coat?" Local Woodcraft? Lowes or HD?
Matthew
I think HD used to carry it, but I dont think they do anymore. Dont know about Lowes as I've never looked for it there. I'm pretty sure both Woodcraft and Rockler have it. I've haven't bought it in a couple of years as I picked up 4 cans from Eagle America when they had a good sale price going.If you build it he will come.
Woodcraft has it and Rockler has some equivalent stuff.
Woodcraft: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=7336
Rockler: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2380 has the Boeshield and the Toolsaver System: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11497 Hope this helps.Alan
Started Learning, Still Learning, and still don't know enough!
Thanks.
I had just used some car wax on my contractor-style TS in the past but not been as diligent as I should. Just purchased a used 8" jointer through the classifieds on this site, and I want to keep the tables as new-looking as the previous owner did.
A word of caution. Many car waxes contain moisture as in water! Stick with a paste wax for furniture such as Johnsons or Minwax. Some say Minwax is not as good as the old fashioned Johnson paste wax for furniture.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
French chalk is the traditional stuff. Talcum powder is the same suff with an apparently nice smell added. Both are a stearite, magnesium silicate if I am correct.
In the days of proper cast iron it was a good anti -friction agent and it was assumed that it filled the pores, thus helping to exclude moisture and rust.
Each machine had a little draw string bag filled with chalk, and one slapped it onto the metal....
Also make spectacular dust cloud if ingested by the dust extractor fan.
Dear Philip,
You make an interesting observation ..."In the days of proper cast iron.........." Could you elaborate on this?Best,John
Evil, yes I can elaborate: Iwas being my usual cynical self. I have noticed that cast iron on old British , American , Italian and Portuguese machines is a lot harder than the stuff found on typical modern machines and I suspect that it is more porous, hence the observation that French chalk fills the pores and works well to reduce friction.
Yesterday I acquired a Browne and Sharpe surface grinder-date of manufacture 1940- needed to drill and tap holes for wiring clips. The same job for my Taiwanese thicknesser was like drilling lead...
Obviously there are pros and cons, but for machine tables etc I would rather have the harder stuff.Philip Marcou
Dear Philip,
Thank you for your response. I had always pretty much assumed that "iron was iron", and that not being an alloy, its properties were more or less uniform. Not to hijack the thread, but does iron get harder with time?Best,John(Evil))
I'm not aware that cast iron gets harder with time but it isn't a hard metal in any case, its main attribute is its stiffness. Cast iron comes in several forms, based on how it is formulated and cast. As with all materials, the better stuff costs more or requires more care in its use.
Cast iron does move over time as stress from the casting process is released. Conscientious machine makers allow the rough castings to sit, usually outdoors, for a year or more, before machining them to size so there is less chance that the castings will warp after the machine is assembled. Another way to relieve the stress is to artificially age the castings by heating and cooling them several times.
There are several proprietary processes for creating high quality cast iron, "Meehanite" is one brand name. If a manufacurer advertises that they use "Meehanite" for their castings it means they are taking care to turn out high quality work.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
In regards to the discussion on cast iron quality and material movement, the castings on Knapp combination machines are are rough machined then set aside for some time before final machining.
I got this info from their demo dvd. But if you think about it, deviations from flatness on machined surfaces are not machined in, they develop. I'll bet if we stayed at the end of the assembly line in Taiwan and checked flatness on even the lowest quality machines, they would all be true.
What I would like to see is reviews on machines which have been in use for a few years. It would give us some idea of how they hold up. I own a few Grizzly machines that I will soon give to my brother or brother-in-law (I'll let them fight over them). The worked fine on day-one, but certainly are not items which will be handed to my grandson.
John, perhaps you can put a bug in someone's ear about reviewing well worked tools.
John, modern technology such as that Meehanite process means that iron qualities such as hardness, ductility , strength can be controlled reliably.They used to "season" cast parts to reduce stress and warp-but this is not needed or acceptable now.
I don't think it gets harder with time: the vintage stuff may have hard inclusions that kill cutting edges though.
That's my understanding of it- a boffin would have more details in his noggin.Philip Marcou
As I recall, There is a health hazard issue with talcum powder. Anybody know the particulars.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I believe the problem was that some talc turned out to have asbestos in it--(from the geological sources used by the producer) I am a bit hazy on this.
Right on the nose for the asbestos. Did my mining technician degree in Thetford-mines Qc. Home of some of the largest open pit mining operations for asbestos in North America.
At some point in my degree I could have told you all the ins and out of geologicaly forming talc and asbestos but I can't remember precisely anymore. What I do remember, besides that both are closely linked, is that the talc mine was closed because of a ridiculously low percentage of fibers were detected in the talc ore. The chrysotile variety found is much less of a threat than others species that are also called asbestos but still, this thing ends up in baby powder and it had to be done. Sad for the town that needed the job but life did go on.
Not to worry though, the asbestos scare has killed off (and it's a good thing) any chance of an asbestos fiber ending up in talc powder. At least if the talc ore comes from North America
Rehab.
I can't answer as to talc's properties for rust prevention... but do have some insight into its medical issues. Talc is magnesium silicate. As has been noted, asbestos is tightly regulated as a hazardous substance in the U.S. (and the EU I believe). So I doubt that there is an issue with talc admixted with asbestos. Asbestos itself is a different form(s) of silicate, distinct from talc.That being said, talc- and silicates in general- are not benign. Oral ingestion is not harmful (talc is some times used as a pharmaceutical binder in tablet medication), however, inhalation of the dust is a hazard. Silicate inhalation is a cause of lung disease (silicosis) and so routine inhalation of aerosolized talc is not recommended. Applying it with a cloth while avoiding inhalation is probably not unreasonable- if in doubt, wear a mask.In the end, there is really nothing- talc, asbestos, wood dust, cotton lint- that we should be inhaling on a regular basis is a closed (indoor) environment. Our lungs are poorly designed to filter particulates for us.GlauconIf you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Edited 12/13/2006 1:28 pm ET by Glaucon
Just finished reading the MSDS on talcum powder. They do recommend using a NIOSH approved respirator when cleaning up spills There were no toxicology, or carcinogen references. Overexposure will cause coughing and sneezing. Treatment is to move to fresh air.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Come on Bruce, only in America.... what are folks using on babies now?
The only health hazards I can think of would be throwing it on the floor and then slipping on it- then oil and a thousand other substances including dust fall into the same category. You could also ingest some, under unkown circumstamces....or be blinded by a cloud of it.Philip Marcou
Baby powder is largely scented cornstarch nowadays.
It's not just for gravy anymore.
I used Dr. Scholls foot spray for years.
Works great and is cheaper than top coat sprays.
And it has a wonderful secondary benefit: your machines wont get athlete's foot :-)
Go for the baby powder. The scent makes women get all woozy around your equipment.
Don't get it on your machine's drive belts and be careful to keep it off the floor in front of machines. I have a wooden floor in my shop and won't use it anymore after just a small spill in front of the table saw.
I used talcum powder and canvas covers many years ago with limited success. I then used SlipIt and HTC machine covers for years and that worked better. I now use Renaissance wax with HTC machine covers and I have no signs of rust in humid NE Ohio.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
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