I recently decided to use Gregory Paolinis’ method (July Aug 2002) Dye stain mimics fuming. It involves raising the grain sanding,applying a water base analine dye, followed by an oil base stain(in this case watco dark walnut. I wanted to put a top coat of polyurathane on for added protecetion. Problem is after the watco went on and got wiped off I allowed a week or more to dry before putting on the urethane. Some of the pieces dryed nicely while others remained tacky for days after the poly.I allowed much more than the 72 hours the watco called for and thought it was ok.
Question; was the wood not dry enough from the water base analine before I applied the watco?
Was the watco not dry enough before the urethane? Where did I goof?
these were all newly purchased products so shelf life should not have been a problem of course one never knowes how long something is on the shelf at the big box. I’ve resorted to putting a dehumidifier in the shop and raising the temp. but some of the pieces are still taking forever to dry—days or more. It’s criving me nuts(nuttier).
Replies
Presumably the poly was also oil based.
If you have a clean piece of glass, spread some of the stain on one area, leaving about as thick as was on the wood. On another area, similarly spread some of the poly. See how long each takes to dry.
Didn't see mention of the type of wood, but presumably not one with inherent oiliness, like teak. You might also try some of the oil stain and poly separately on a clean scrap of the wood, and if no good suggestions received try the oil and then the stain on another clean scrap, leaving out the grain raising and water dye. Not fun to run so many tests, but might help clarify the problem.
Good luck!
I can't answer your question fully, but I can give you a bit of information you may find helpful to eliminate at least some of your suspicions.
I routinely use Watco (clear) as a basecoat, to add warmth and depth, followed by water-based wipe-on poly as a topcoat. I've done this on many species of wood, including some of the most commonly used hardwoods -- walnut, cherry, maple, white oak and red oak. I apply the Watco with a 3M pad or fine sandpaper, let it dry for 3 days or so, and then apply the poly. (I just finished up about 100 BF of red oak a couple of weeks ago with this method.) I've never had any problems with this finishing schedule in thousands of BF of wood -- architectural millwork and furniture. This may point to some issue with the dye, or reaction between the dye and Watco.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
I also use Watco often and for some reason it does not dry well, sometimes, some woods?.... I use the 3M pads to apply and wipe dry after it sets a spell.
If I have the problem as described, I wipe it with a clean cotton rag to remove anything that will come off. I then put the objects in a warm room (sunlight) but not with the sun shining on the wood. I let it sit with a big floor fan blowing on it and a open window to gas off the fumes... Usually works for me! I have had some take a week to dry!
I've heard this from various sources, but I have NEVER had an issue with Watco if it's been allowed to dry for 3 days. Even on red oak and walnut, both of which are open-pored woods.
I wonder if climate, temperatures or humidity has something to do with it. That said, although Global Warming has been good to us here in Pittsburgh, giving us weather the rest of the country should be jealous of, it isn't particularly dry, or hot. Maybe the coating is not properly wiped off? Maybe the age of the product causes some folks problems? Dunno. I've just never had it, and I've done a LOT of poly over Watco.
As for the sun, if I'm in a hurry, and the weather is cooperating, I've been able to cut back drying time to two days by leaving the wood in the sun to dry.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
I wonder if climate, temperatures or humidity has something to do with it. Chicago here.. Changes by the hour...
"I wonder if climate, temperatures or humidity has something to do with it."
It's a puzzlement. Our weather in "da Burgh" isn't all that different from Chicago -- just better. ;-)
Still, I've never had any problem, no matter the season. Even on red oak. But I always feel the surface before the poly, just to be sure things are nice & dry. Never had to wait more than 3 days tho' that I can recall.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
I hope you do not mind.. Way off subject.. I see Pittsburgh, PA..
Most of my kin are from Lansdale Pa...
I went to American Bandstand on a visit there in the middle? 50's.. .. 'Helped Integrate TV' I danced with a black women.. She was so nice...... And very pretty. My, yet to be bride, was there also... She was Ok with it. I could not dance but things like that never stopped me as a Teen.... I recall we won something?
I still remember that.... What fun!
Lansdale is W A Y over there, down east by Philly. We on the western end of the state view that as practically New Jersey. ;-)
"I could not dance"
Goes with the territory. But I bet your dance partner could!
"I recall we won something?"
Yep. Your partner could dance!Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
We on the western end of the state view that as practically New Jersey. ;-)
THAT was funny!
>>> Was the watco not dry enough before the urethane?
Probably. The Watco must be thoroughly wiped dry after letting it set on the wood for 15-20 minutes. Because of the structure of oak, it requires some careful and aggressive wiping to get it dry.
At this point, try letting it dry longer and see if it hardens up properly. Don't attempt to put any more finish on until the under-coat has fully dried.
Thanks for the info. I've pretty much determined that the watco was not completely dry -probably wasn't wiped off enough or had soaked in more in spots of less density. It is red oak I forgot to mention. I think yhay when I put the polyurethane on the not quite dry watco, the solvent in the urethane may have extended the dry time. All that and a slightly high humidity worked against me . I love the note on the cans that say dry time is figured at 77deg. at 50% humidity. Don't get those kind of conditions in Mich. too often. If you get 77deg. the humidity is probably 80%.
I know I have used oil base stains on parts in the winterwhen the weather was cool and they took avery long time to dry. I love the look I got with this process but probably will reserve it for smaller projects not a hundred b.f. of casing and trim. Glad it was my house not for someone else. And that mymost exelent wife is very patient. Thanks
I think most everyone is hitting it on the mark. Whenever a water base anything is used on open pore wood, it can take a long time to dry. Mostly because it can soak in pretty deep in a short amount of time. That also applies to oil base stains as well. I think the only think you did wrong was all to do with your drying times. I also think using a dehumidifier and fan should help it to cure. Might I suggest that, with your high humidity issue (I live in FL so I gots it too) that, if you can, set up a room where you can dry out the air when you are doing that type of stain job. You can also run your A/C to drop your humidity as well. It does make a big difference in the long run. What I do down here is I wait about a week after it feels dry to the touch before I do the next step. Doing that has saved me a lot of headaches. And trust me, I hate to wait any length of time with stained parts curing more then about 10 minutes. It's a wonder I'm not bald at this point!
Thanks for the knowledge. I did finally get it to dry faster by putting it out in the sun for a day. I was sprried about distortion but it came out pretty good. I wasn't that obcessed with the posibility fo slight color variations as the pieces would be pretty well seperated when installed and the color was fairly dark anyway.
I know I used some true oil finish that Lee Valley sells on a small box last winter when the temp was only about 62 degrees in the room and it took a very long time to dry. A great good looking finish though. I'm a lot like you I hate to wait on the finish. I think that slowing down and taking whatever time is necessary is a hard but valuable lesson for quality work. Especially when the project is almost done.
Thanks to all for your replies. I always get good advice here.
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