Table saw verses the EZ-Guide.
Hello All,
This is my first post to the knots side of things so please be gentle. I have searched the archives and there are a million posts on table saws….so here’s one more.
We are in the process of remodeling our old house and in the near future I want to, build floor to ceiling built-in book cases with a Murphy bed, I want to build an arts & crafts style built-in banquet seating (with underseat storage) in our dinning nook, built-in book cases with desk in our den and finally built in bookcases in our knee wall in the attic. All this stuff will be stain grade and hopefully it will be furniture grade
In this months fine homebuilding there is a review of contractor table saws and we were discussing them, the Rigid and Bosch were the best according to the author. I think that I am going to need a table saw to do the above mentioned work. But someone said that the EZ-Smart Guide would work just as well and be much cheaper and the thread got kinda hi-jacked. The EZ guide is a fancy circular saw guide.
http://www.ezsmarttools.com/products/ezsmartguide.html
I now realize that I probably should of asked the fine woodworking question on this forum (duh). What do y’all think about the EZ-guide versus the table saw?
Before someone suggests getting a nice used cabinet saw I really do not have the space for one. I need the ability to fold the saw ‘flat’ and to be able to hang it out of the way when I am not using it. I have the Rigid 12″ SCMS on the RIGID stand and really like its ability to not take up so much space when I am not using it.
To show that I am not totally clueless (but close) here’s a link to a small wood project I recently finished.
http://www.madmadscientist.com/nicheweb/niches.htm
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Replies
Dan, I recently purchased the EZ-Guide. I was in a similar situation as yours: wanting a table saw, but was convinced by my BIL, a dedicated woodworker, that the EZ would be a better deal, cheaper and wouldn't take up all the room, etc. I have yet to use it to any extent so can't comment much about it, but it appears for what I will need to do that it will work just fine.
Doug
You can build your projects with a saw guide, it will just take longer.
Keep in mind the Achilles heel of a saw guide if having to measure both ends to get a parallel setting. Then it has to be clamped likely to keep it from crawling while making the cut. Although Festool's guide is supposed to stay put without clamps.
I don't own the EZ Guide, (I own one from PSI) but by all accounts its well made and owners seem to really like it. However it is just a tool guide, manufacturer claims notwithstanding.
Expect a breathless sales pitch soon.
Just saw a post that indicates the EZ Smart may have solved the double measure issue. If so its a good development.
Edited 6/15/2005 10:48 pm ET by adastra
Be sure to look at both ES and Festool. The one advantage I see in the Festool system is the dust collection using their vacuum. The reports claim that it is even "very" effective with their 1400 router. I own the saw, router and vacuum and have been pleased with both the quality and function. They are pricy.
I have used the EZ and the Festool guides. I like them both, and use them both for taking panel goods to size on a client's site. The advantage of the EZ is that you can use your own circular saw: the disadvantages are that you have to install their base plate and leave it on if you're going to be using the EZ regularly. I had the EZ for a couple of yfears before I bought my Festool. The advantage of the Festool is the dust collection, this is really big to the clients when I'm working in their home (this was why I bought it); the disadvantage is that you have to buy the Festool saw and hook it up to a dust collector, I use a Fein Turbo II for dust collection because that is what I had.
Both do a good job of limiting chip out of sensitive goods like cherry, walnut, oak and mahogany plywoods. If I'm in a client's home I use the Festool, no question about it. It carrys and sets up easily, I ususally, nearly always, clamp both ends, and I know exactly where the cut will be, even if I make a 45 degree cut. When I am working outside or where dust collection doesn't matter, or I'm not making an angle cut, I use the EZ because it is cheaper and doesn't attract the attention of other working people on the site.
Keep in mind the Achilles heel of a saw guide if having to measure both ends to get a parallel setting. ..
I make a 'story stick' for the measurement.. Works like a charm! Both ends the SAME!
The EZSMART has received pages of commentary over on the Breaktime forum - I infer from some of what I've read that one of the Breaktime regulars may be the inventor. I've read lot's of extraordinarily positive comments from folks I consider to be well-qualified to comment on such matter, and don't recall reading anything negative. An advanced search should turn up enough to keep you reading for the better part of a day!
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
The EZSMART has received pages of commentary over on the Breaktime forum - I infer from some of what I've read that one of the Breaktime regulars may be the inventor. I've read lot's of extraordinarily positive comments from folks I consider to be well-qualified to comment on such matter, and don't recall reading anything negative. An advanced search should turn up enough to keep you reading for the better part of a day!
Yea when the inventor starts pimping the product I get kinda annoyed. I would really like some independent reviews about how dang great the thing is.
Right now I am borrowing my bosses $99 Skil table saw. Boy does it stink. I have to manually set the fence each time to get it parrallel, it only has like a 12" right rip capability and it seem really under powered and just unsturdy.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Daniel,
Before I saw your work, I'd have said it would be crazy to try to do all of what you propose without a table saw. But if you were able to craft that entertainment center without a table saw OR an EZ-thingy, I'd say go for the guide. I also think that if you decide to invest in a table saw, a fold-up saw will likely only leave you wanting for more after a while. Is a contractor or cabinet saw with a mobile base out of the question?
Regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Before I saw your work, I'd have said it would be crazy to try to do all of what you propose without a table saw. But if you were able to craft that entertainment center without a table saw OR an EZ-thingy, I'd say go for the guide. I also think that if you decide to invest in a table saw, a fold-up saw will likely only leave you wanting for more after a while. Is a contractor or cabinet saw with a mobile base out of the question?
You'd be surprised what you can do with a 12" SCMS! But actually the entertainment center we bought at Lowes. But I did stain-finish it to match pretty well with the original trim. Actually my only project was the wall niches...so I'm not super bigtime woodworker yet.
I am afraid that a saw that does not fold up is out of the question. If I was going to do each project one after the other bang, bang, bang then I could go the cabinet saw route and then sell it when I was done. Unfortunately there is going to be like a year in-between projects.
The newish contractor saws with foldup bases (as reviewed in FHB) really seem to be a good compromise (I hope) Well except for the 25" rip capacity.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Madscientist,
Okay, here's the way it works: even if you buy the Skill saw, you'll still need to precut your ply with a circular saw. Trying to man handle a sheet of ply on a saw that small just dosen't work. On the other hand, to me, the guide could be easily duplicated for shop use with a piece of ply and a cleat. The key is 'shop' use where conditions are less severe than job site. So I'm not sure making a choice between these two options gets you any place...except poorer. I had a Skill saw and built tons of stuff for a couple years...it cuts well enough and if you have the hand tools and skill you can make the finest furniture. Rob Millard, one of our best here hangs his saw up when he's finished. It very difficult to apply hand tools effecively without a workbench which needs space and money to say nothing of the hand tools. For the furniture I made on the Skill saw(pre-workbench), most of it I'd like to throw out and start again. I think you'd find it useful to fully understand the exact process steps a furniture maker goes through to make and finish stuff. You might have a clearer picture of where your money will do you the most good. For several years now I've wanted to build cherry corner cabinets(2) in the dining room....the wood will cost $1000..I'm not good enogh yet to waste that kinda money.
Daniel,
"The newish contractor saws with foldup bases (as reviewed in FHB) really seem to be a good compromise (I hope) Well except for the 25" rip capacity."
That makes a lot of sense. I think you can get around the rip capacity issue by buildinga fold-down extension for the saw - there are at least a dozen plans I've seen out there.
Where in Oakland do you live? I'm a management consultant and do a lot of work for Wells Fargo and HP (I lived in the BA for 16 years). I know Walnut Creek, Montclair, Piedmont and downtown Oakland fairly well.
Best regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Daniel,
I hope you don't get all of you exercise jumping to conclusions LOL!!
Read what's posted before deciding it's just an inventor foisting his wares on an unsuspecting public; these are highly-skilled homebuilders, whose judgement I have grown to trust over the years, who use the EZ guide under demanding circumstances and swear by it.-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
From looking at your work I can tell you need a tablesaw. You have the talent and the saw will become second nature for you-fast setup and easy to use. Whichever you like most just go for it. I believe the Bosch will take up less room than the Rigid----but whichever you like just do it. Aloha, Mike
From looking at your work I can tell you need a tablesaw. You have the talent and the saw will become second nature for you-fast setup and easy to use. Whichever you like most just go for it. I believe the Bosch will take up less room than the Rigid----but whichever you like just do it. Aloha, Mike
Thanks Mike,
Should I be worried that these two saws 'only' have a 25" rip capability? Since I don't have any kind of set plans for the projects that I am going to build I can not say for sure but maybe the built in banquet might need to have cuts made bigger than 25"
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
i used a saw guide for years before getting my table saw. The first few times I ripped something on the TS, I almost cried: I couldn't believe I had put up with the saw guide all those years.
Yea, you can do fine cuts with a saw guide, it just takes way, way, way longer. I guess it comes down to how much you think you'll be using it, and what you think your time is worth.
I still use one of those 4' self-clamping guides to sometimes cut sheet goods down to more managable rough sizes. They're pretty good for that sort of thing.
Oddly I have both the EZ-Smart Guide and a Unisaw, with a huge out feed table. The reason for the EZ-Smart Guide, which I got 2nd, was the work of getting whole sheets of 3/4 inch MDF down to the saw in the basement. I'd had done 3/4 ply a lot, but even with two people 3/4 inch MDF was a real pain. So....
1. If you do buy the EZ-Smart Guide get it off eBay, for some reason his price is lower there. $159 from the same guy.
2. EZ-Smart Guide is slower, I find my self taking it apart and putting it back to together when I change from a sheet length cut to a cross sheet cut, it has two 52+ inch bars. They do lock together well. I could let it hang off the edge, but it is 104+ inches long then and then I don't have the room to move around it then. Since the idea is to get the sheet cut down I kind of want to get all the cuts done with out moving the sheet. But since you are not doing production...
3. EZ-Smart Guide deals with tear out well, the cuts are almost as good as the table saw with a zero clearance insert. And that is with a normal rip blade in the circular saw. When I bought the EZ-Smart Guide I had planned to get a better blade but never had to.
4. Almost as important is the table you hold the sheet on, so the sheet doesn't move around. Look at their Smart table, works well, but I'm not totally sure I'd buy it again. Their table does move well from site to site. But you will need some type of 4 x 8 foot table you can cut though, I've seen a lot of plans on the web for tables. Or some people put a 4 x 8 sheet of that blue foam insulation on top of a table and just replace it when it too cut up. That adds blue saw dust to your mess how ever. And the whole sheet blows away outside.
Hiya Mad...
Didn't you and I participate in this discussion a while back?
Anyway, I am also (as others have already said) an owner of a large Unisaw setup, and the EZSmart. I also have experienced the Festool sawguide. I can tell you a few things from personal extended experience. First, I rarely used my Unisaw since owning the SmartGuide (I now have two complete systems, as well as the SmartRouter and the SmartTable). I use it in the shop and in the field for everything from cutting filler panels, to trimming doors and cabinetry work. The results with a PC OEM "Framer" blade are remarkable and with a better blade are absolutely 100% as good as anything my Unisaw can deliver and it does it faster and in many cases more safely. In my opinion and experience it has a number of advantages over anything else on the market, including systems much more expensive.
As to the inventor of the system "pimping" his wares, I've stated many times on other forums that I have grown to be good friends with Dino. He is absolutely obsessed with his product but from the perspective of genuinely wanting to make woodworking easier and safer for all of us. (He had, as I understand it, witnessed a pretty horrific accident with a tablesaw some years ago). Besides, he offers a 30 day money back guarantee, including shipping, so where's the risk? If you have any specific questions, I'd be more than happy to try to help. Feel free to post or PM them.
Best wishes,
PaulB
As to the inventor of the system "pimping" his wares..
Geeee. if it isa good sells itself!
PaulB I agree with the post for what that is worth..
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