I built a large kitchen table out of solid walnut and am reluctant to bring it into the house for use because I am concerned about a protective finish. I have hand rubbed 2 coats of WATCO Danich Oil over every surface. What can I use over this oil finish that will withstand a kitchen environment and not distract from the beauty of the walnut?
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
You might consider a couple more coats of the oil varnish you already used then perhaps some wax and thats it.
Jeff
I had actually considered this but wanted to hear what others would suggest. Thanks for the reply.
Kam,
I echo Jeff.
You might want to try pure tung oil or a tung oil-based finishing oil. These are tough and have a pleasant smell. You might even want to consider walnut oil, although it isn't quite as durable as tung oil (it has less resins in it I believe).
Oil finishes offer a degree of protection but, best of all, are easily renewed and repaired should a spill or some other damage occur. You can even, if necessary, sand or scrape back a damaged area then oil just that bit until it blends again with the undamaged areas.
A very versatile finish, them oils.
Lataxe
The oil/varnish mix, whether Watco or one you mix yourself, will be significantly more protective than pure tung oil, will look almost exactly the same, repair just as easily, and dry faster. No, this won't be as protective a finish as a full varnish finish, but it will still look good, and with a little care look good for a long time.
Is Watco Danish Oil a oil/varnish mix or just oil?
Thanks for the reply.
Watco is an oil/varnish mix. No Danes are squeezed to make Danish oil.
The other thing to be aware of is that there is Tung Oil--the label must say 100% or Pure for you to believe it is just tung oil. But there are Tung Oil Finishes in which the words "tung oil" are just adjectives to the noun Finish. These Finishes do not need to contain any actual tung oil, some are oil/varnish mixes (I believe the Minwax is this kind) and some (I am thinking of Formby's) is varnish. Formby's Tung Oil Finish isn't an oil/varnish mix, it is a varnish pure and simple.
Can tung oil be applied over the Danish oil? Would you apply a coat of wax over the oils as a protective barrier?
Tung oil smells good to you ? Smells like snake musk to me. Linseed oil smells Good.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Bruce,Tung! I likes the smell of that nut!As to linseed, it just smells like.....oil.****In Blighty we can get 100% pure tung and also a "Finishing Oil" that's a high percentage of tung, along with some exta resins, a thinner and a drier. Both are made by Liberon.The Finishing Oil is both easier to apply (it's thinner and dries faster) and a bit tougher. However, for the reasons Howard lists, a kitchen table will get marked and therefore you'll be refinishing (re-oiling it) regularly, in parts. The pure tung is easier to re-blend over a patch that you've scraped or sanded to get rid of a burn or similar, because it's not so shiny as Finishing Oil.But the Finishing Oil works like that too - you just need a few more coats to rebuild it's shinier finish.Lataxe
Edited 11/20/2008 4:41 pm ET by Lataxe
Kam,
I'd also recommend another few coats of Danish oil. Just be reasonably careful when using the table - no cold drinks or hot dishes right on the table (coasters or placemats). Common sense, really.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Let me add some more info to the mix. An oil/varnish mixture like Watco and Minwax Tung Oil Finish are more protective than just a pure tung oil finish. Tung oil has little in the way of water or scratch resistance. That said, I do not consider an oil/varnish as a protective finish for something like a kitchen table. It will not stand up to the type of activities that would be expected to happen. Spills, abrasions and the use of cleaning chemicals would rapidly deteriorate the finish. Oil/varnish finishes are not very tolerant of hot and cold dishes and glasses. It's saving grace is that it can be relatively easy to repair.
My choice would be to use a wiping varnish on top of the oil/varnish. You can make your own by mixing a varnish and mineral spirits 50/50. Wipe on about 5-6 coats and you will have a nice finish that will be quite protective and durable.
Of course, no finish will stand up to heavy abuse. Things like placemats, coasters and trivets should still be used to protect the surface.
Thank You. Can you recommend a wiping varnish?
I make my own wiping varnish as described above. I am not a fan of "pre-mixed" wiping varnish for a number of reasons. I prefer non-poly varnishes for their clarity but you could use a poly varnish if you wanted.Here is something that should help. A friend of mine put it together years ago and it has worked well for many.QUOTEThere are a number of suggested application regimens that are totally subjective. The number of coats in a given day, the % of cut on various coats, which coat to sand after, when to use the blade and a whole host of other practices are all minor differences between finishers. There are some things that I consider sacred when applying a wipe-on finish.First, you can use any full strength oil based clear finish. Polyurethane varnish or non-poly varnish is fine.If you are making your own wipe-on the mix is scientific - thin. I suggest 50/50 with mineral spirits because it is easier to type than any other ratio and easy to remember. Some finish formulators have jumped on the bandwagon and you can now get "wipe on" finish pre-mixed. If you use a pre-mixed, thinning is generally not necessary. But making your own is cheaper and you know what's in it.The number of coats in a given day is not important. Important is to apply a wet coat with an applicator and merely get it on. Think of a 16 year old kid working as a busboy at Denny's you have sent over to wipe off a table. Sort of swirl the the material on like you would if you were applying a paste wax. Don't attempt straight strokes. The applicator should be wet but not soaked. The applicator can be a paper towel, half a T-shirt sleeve or that one sock left after a load of washing. Then leave it alone. The surface should not be glossy or wet looking. If you have missed a spot, ignore it - you will get it on the next coat. If you try and fix a missed spot you will leave a mark in the finish.Timing for a second coat involves the pinkie test. Touch the surface with your pinkie. If nothing comes off you are ready for another coat. If was tacky 5 minutes ago but not now, apply your next coat just as you applied the previous coat. Remember, you are wet wiping not flooding. After applying the second coat, let it fully dry for 48 hours. Using 320 paper and a sanding block lightly sand the surface flat. Now, begin applying more coats. Do not sand between coats unless you have allowed more than 24 hours to elapse since the prior coat. The number of coats is not critical - there is no critical or right number to apply. For those who need a rule, four more coats on non-critical surfaces or six more coats on surfaces that will get abraded seems to work.After your last coat has dried at least over night you will have boogers in the surface. You should not have marks in the surface because you ignored application flaws. You may have dust, lint and, if you live in Texas, bug legs. Use a utility knife blade at this point. Hold it between your thumb and forefinger, near the vertical, and gently scrape the surface. Gentle is the important word - no harder than you would scrape your face. If you start scraping aggressively you will leave small cut marks in the surface. After you have scraped to the baby butt stage gently abrade the surface with 320 dry paper or a gray ScotchBrite. Clean off the surface. Now, leave the area for two hours and change your clothes. Apply your last coat with a bit more care than the previous coats and walk away.An anal person is going to have a tough time with this process. Missed spots have to be ignored. Wet wipe, don't flood. Scraping to babies butt smooth means scraping no harder than scraping a babies butt. Ignoring any of these will leave marks that are tough to get out. Getting these marks out requires some aggressive sanding to flatten out the surface and starting over.Jim KullEND QUOTEFinally, It works better to use a gloss varnish for all coats except the last. The flatteners in semi-gloss and satin tend to rapidly fall out of suspension when the finish is highly thinned. If you want a non-gloss finish, use it only on the final coat or two and be sure to stir the material frequently or you will end up with cloudy streaks.
Howie.........
Kam,
I completely disagree with advice to rely on an oil or an oil/varnish finish for a kitchen table. Kitchen tables take much too much abuse, both physical abrasion and chemical exposure (all kinds of liquids and juices), which will have the finish looking dull and shabby in no time.
You need a lacquer or varnish finish to stand up to the use a kitchen table gets. Either can be applied over the finish you've already put down.
I recommend Behlen's Rock Hard varnish. It was made for this kind of thing.
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4292
http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/SAL/tablevar.htm
If you do decide to use it, you can ignore advice that you must use Behlen's special reducer (solvent). Ordinary mineral spirits (paint thinner) is all that's needed.
If you want advice on how to apply it and rub it out, just ask.
Rich
I also have a large Walnut table presently under final finish.
I started out with Watco and subsequent other coats over the top.
The final coats are HIGH Built Poly (brushed) and wet sanded.
Have been delayed a little by making the Eight chairs which are presently being finished as well.
The FINAL COATS on the table will be handed wiped poly.All told I will have about 8 coats of finish on the table.
That should withstand some abuse hopefully.PICTURES forthcoming.
Rich,You and them other varnishing lads! All that complicated application!! And then, when it eventually does get damaged (as it will in a kitchen, or bathroom) you will have to take off and renew the whole lot. I never saw a varnish repair that didn't look like....a repair.Unfortunately I speak once more from bitter experience. I made a very fine mahogany & sapele bathroom thang with lots of shelves, drawers and lipping of the counter-tops. It got several coats of a marine varnish, rubbed down between each coat, etc.. (What a tedious process). Inevitably it suffered water damage here and there (although it did take 7 years to show up). I couldn't face taking off and renewing the whole finish so attempted to blend in repairs. Despite what Joe says, it just ain't possible to get a satisfacory blend of repair-to-extant. Perhaps I am just inexperienced (haven't the time or inclination to spent 5000 man hours practicing).Lataxe, who prefers easy maintenance to perfections that time & life will un-perfect.
Lataxe,It's unlikely that Rockhard will get damaged after it's cured for a month or so. But if it does, yes, varnish takes some skill to repair and I would probably take a lot of the finish surface down if I had to do that.I would REALLY recommend lacquer for this project, THAT's easy to repair if ever needed. But recommending lacquer gets into the problem of needing spray finishing equipment, the facility in which to spray and the previous experience to be able to do it well. That's all way too complicated for people without the resources and turns them off to finishing.An oil/varnish finish is ok, it will just need to be "re-done" frequently to look good. A varnish like Rockhard can last a lifetime with no further attention needed.Rich
Rich,I don't know if it was Rockhard (what a great name - sounds like the nickname of an old boxer who now bounces on the nightclub door) but I have seen a lot of modern furniture with what looks like a very hard glass-like finish. It's true that such finishes seem to take incredibly hard knocks or clawings with no real damage but they look so....hard (and shiny).However, I suppose this is just aesthetics; and I imagine there's some way to rub them out to a more satin look, even if it takes a diamond-dust paper. :-)A last point: if a table top gets dinged (and kitchen ones seem to, a lot) one can take off the oil over the top of the ding and steam it out. The oil is then used to repair the bald bit. Surely this process would be prevented with hard-film finishes, so one must live with the dings........? And will not this be so for any serious damage to the underlying wood (eg a burn)?Lataxe
"Surely this process would be prevented with hard-film finishes, so one must live with the dings........? "
Yes, you are correct; you have to live with the dings. Fixing them is not a simple task often involving stripping and refinishing.
Hard film finishes are not impervious to damage.
I cannot tell you how I loathe other 'artists' that think my furniture is a ready made display stand for their bits of rough bottomed crap. They place it on my furniture without so much as a by-your -leave, slide the piece of junk around until they get it the way they like it, and leave dents and scratches all over my table and cabinet tops.
Then they get peed off because as soon as I spot their knick-knack on my furniture I lift it off and put it down on the handiest bit of floor space I can find that's a good distance from my work. They never once offer to buy their 'impromptu' display stand from me for the £3000 or £5000 I want for it. Hell, if they bought the 'display' stand they could scratch and dent it as much as they want-- I wouldn't care after I'd got the money in my bank account, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Lataxe,Rockhard can be rubbed out to any degree the craftsman wants to take it. It can be applied thick or thin. I much prefer lacquer to varnish, but I can rub out a varnish film to look like a close to the wood lacquer. I don't like garish high gloss surfaces as can be had with some of the catalyzed and epoxy finishes. But a finely-rubbed mirror finish (as on a great piano) can be beautiful.Rockhard really does take a beating. It is hard and tough. It will not chip or crack under abrasion and shock that a lot of other films will. Good stuff.But when a reactive film finish gets damaged, there's nothing to do but expend the energy to repair it. And that might mean going all the way down to bare wood and back out again. Not always, but sometimes.Rich
I have used oil/varnish finishes on numerous tables, desks, and other surfaces prone to being used hard. All have survived and still look good today. Some are over twenty years old. One must apply numerous coats and not stop with the one or two suggested by the instructions. That they are not durable enough for these applications is just a lot of hooey.
Lataxe:I used Rock Hard and I rubbed it out with 500 and 1000 Abralon and then with good wax on 0000 steel wool. It now has a lovely, very tactile, satin look. I was guided along the way by Peter Gedrys, who also believes that Rock Hard can be nicely repaired. the key, of course, would be in the rubbing out.Joe
Joe & Rich,It seems I must put aside my fear of hard-film finishes and perhaps have another try of one. I'm not sure if Rockhard can be had in the UK but who knows.However Sap is right, in my experience: rub on many coats of a good resin-bearing oil like tung, or it's friendlier quick-drying version Liberon Finishing Oil, and this makes a tough coat. Yet it can still be damaged (as can the underlying wood) so it's a "best of all worlds" finish bcause repair is so very easy.But one must try new things so I'll be considering one of my next-year projects for a hard-film finish like the one you suggest - perhaps for an oak coffee-cum-library table I'm planning, as the relatively small top is flat and wouldn't be too much trouble to refinish entirely should the worst occur.Lataxe
I agree with Rich. Use a good hard varnish. Varnish can be repaired, but you are far less likely to have to repair it. I recently made oak kitchen counter tops with multiple coats of shellac under three coats of Behlen's Rock Hard. I wet sanded between coats and rubbed out the final after a long cure. Last touch was Black Bison wax applied with 0000 steel wool. It is a very durable furniture-grade finish that people like to touch. Splashes and detergents just wipe off.
Joe
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled