This particular top was built in a week-end about 14 months ago. I did my annual flattening Saturday and here are the results of 4 seasons of Georgia weather. Summer heats range from 85-90 degrees daylight hours.. winter ranges in the 50’s daytime to 30/40’s at night with occasionally dips in the 20’s for short periods. Much humidity in summer with a drought and then much rain throw in last year.
I had only two small areas that required flattening with the SYP. About .025 really and basically in-significant but about 7 minutes with a few passes of a #7 jointer took them back to ground zero. Another 10 minutes with a ROS loaded with 100 grit to remove old Danish and a quick wipe of fresh Danish oil
So.. for any considering using SYP for a WB top.. hopefully this will be helpful. The SYP was acclimated before glue-up and was ripped down to 1 3/8″ x 3′ which is face glued to yield a 3″ thick top. After case hardened.. it gets as hard as brick.
The light areas are what had to be skimmed off in the picture.
Sarge..
Replies
Not too bad at all, Sarge
I need to plane the top of my maple bench. It's been about 18 months, and there are a few high spots, and right where I do my handplaning, so of course, it's effecting my work. I'll be scraping off the tung oil and getting at it soon, probably this weekend. First, I have to finish my nephew's toy box.
Happy Holidays,
Jeff
The thin coat of Danish came off pretty quickly with a 6" Rigid (Metabo) ROS with a 100 grit loaded. It really only gummed the paper in the center and I only used two pieces to clear the old Danish. I thought about tung but I don't have time to allow that amount of drying time as I had to start some kitchen knife holders for Xmas gifts today. That tung does need more time to cure than Danish even though you can get away with working on it before it does with it being just a WB top.
Regards...
Sarge..
Looks good Sarge. It appears to me that you have a couple high spots stickin' up on the top of that ol' vise jaw, just inboard of where each one of them handles are pointing, maybe y'all orta take that plane to 'em?
Ray
Thanks Ray. I used the #7 and skewed from side to side, Ray.. Those white areas are all that was necessary on the top itself as it stayed pretty flat. But... I did come back going long grain with a low angle smoother on that vises jaw top as those are laminated soft maple. So... it's taken care of as the below picture of done and re-coated might show.
I put it back to work today with 32 hours cure time on the Danish. I will normally allow Danish to cure 4 days but it's just a top so it was time to "get er done" with some Xmas gifts my wife asked me to make for her mother and sisters.
Edit to add.. ha.. ha... I think I just figured out the high spots on top of the vise jaw on the forward end Ray. I was looking at the picture trying to figure how your eyes are that good. The high spot on each side is the round dog holes. After looking at the picture it does make them appear to be two raised spots but that is just a blend of my terrible photography and an optical illusion.
Now I can sleep wondering if my eyes are really that bad. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 12/16/2008 12:21 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,
I wasn't even seeing the maple jaw, thought that was part of the top, so that's how good my eyes are. I was talking about the black part of that vise.
Haha,
Ray
Have yourself a merry little Christmas, y'hea?
joinerswork,"I wasn't even seeing the maple jaw, thought that was part of the top, so that's how good my eyes are."...or is it how good the saturated fruit cake is this year...hmmmm !
I just dug up a couple of "Claxton fruit cakes" (made in Claxton, Georgia of course) as I buried a case about 39 years ago upon returning from VN. Hmmmmm.... just as fresh as the day I buried them.
Good stuff.. those Claxton's and they make great Xmas gifts you never un-wrap and give to someone else year after year if you get one. It is reported that a few may be older than Noah's Arc. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
BTW... I often offer them as door prized at my "Pole Dancing" establishment at my shop.
Regards to you and yours for the Holidays, BG. Enjoy the ice and snow and have plenty of pan-cake mix on hand just in case. :>)
Sarge..
Sarge,
Jees your lucky. Around here there is no digging up fruit cakes, hell most of them are getting married.....not that there's anything wrong with that...Anyhow, gotta agree with David, a workbench that is used in pole dancing in the after hours should be finished in tongue oil. :)Merry Christmas
You dirty old man you...
Sarge... who has to get down to Santa's shop as Santa had to lay off all the elves to meet the needs of the current economy...
BG,
I got the hairy eyeball from the wife this year when I mentioned fruitcake. She seems to think that a heart attack and a stent ought to put the kibosh on the eating of fruitcake...no matter how thinly it's sliced. That was before I got the positive strokes from my cardiologist at my 1 yr checkup, but now it's too late. Those things got to age at least a month before they've taken up enough brandy...
Ray
Joinerswork,It's nice to hear about the cardio report...finally something going down that's a good thing.I know you can't challenge the eye ball. They always give us back so much more than we give them; we give them groceries, they give us a meal...we give them a house, they give us a home. If we give them any crap...we can expect back a ton of $hit. :) Merry Christmas
You southern "dog" you. Messing with an ole man's mind when it is already confused to the point the steel wagon and men with the white jackets await on the street in front. Come to think of it... my Sawzall would make taking off those lumps short business.
They're headed down the drive-way so I have to run to dodge their nets.... ha.. ha...
Regards for the Holidays Ray...
Sarge..
Sarge,
Looks like a very stout design, and I like the three vises! If you only get a 1/4" out of flat in a year or so with all of your Georgia humidity, that sounds pretty stable to me!
The high area's were basically only around 1/16"-3/64 Heartwould. It varied slightly but .030 ( I made a mistake as I see I posted .025) was the thickest feeler gauge blade I could slide under any gaps using a Starrett straigh edge across the top on high spots I idenified with phenolic winding sticks and then penciled in. But... I skewed the entire surface from side to side across the entire top.
The light areas are all the #7 picked up as it was not really off much except on that one side.
Regards...
Sarge..
Even better! You do some pretty good work, brother!
Thank you sir but my work is question-able even though I do a lot of work.. whatever that means. ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge..
I have several 14 ft 2x6 SYP salvaged from an old gas station. They are almost clear, have some twisty warp to them, and hard as a rock that looks like a brick. I figured ripped down and glued up they would make a workbench top hard as concrete covered in brick. Well, harder than the bench top I have now made from salvaged fir 2x4's.
I would take them to the jointer which you will have to if cupped and twisted but... I always take a moisture meter to the shelf when I buy it and hand chose the straightest there. For tops ( I have built a few with SYP) I chose 2 x 12's the way I described... let them acclimate farther in the wood rack.. then rip them using only the outer 3" or so. I simply throw the center pith away and I do look when purchasing to try to get ones with the pith as close to center as possible.
So.. with yours I would personally joint them and try and plane to around 1". If you glue them about 3 at a time in sections the large amount of face glue surface will most likely not allow any tension left in them as they have twisted before to return. Then glue a 3 boards section to another until you get the full width in a top. With two 12" sections I usually run them through a 20" planer and then glue the 12" sections together finally.
Hope that doesn't confuse as I think much faster than I type and that often leads to not being overly clear to my thoughts on paper.
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge, just my curiosity here...
Why do you feel the need to put any finish at all on the benchtop?
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
You're probably the only person in the world that would ask that question, David. You're probably going to try to tell me that a single coat of Danish wiped on lightly and then immediately wiped off as I do, is not really going to provide any abrasion protection to the surface with the very minute amount of resins in it.... And to that I totally agree!
You will also probably tell me that for the same reason the in-significant amount of resin build does not penetrate deeply into the pores of SYP (or any other wood for that matter) providing any real protection from moisture... And to that I totally agree!
And you will also probably tell me a work-bench is going to get scuffed.. dented with chisel marks... and perhaps someone such as I who doesn't exactly treat my WB with the reverence of a formal dining table as some do applying Danish or any other finish is a waste of my time... And to that I partially agree!
So... why do I do it is the real question, huh? Well now you get the real answer with both barrels loaded and both triggers pulled in harmony with each other. And when you do you will either suffer for not thinking of it or you might laugh which I would prefer to ease world-wide tension. Here we go... ready or not!
I apply a light coat of Danish because I have Danish on hand... and I like a hint of amber even though it is irrelevant having it there when I am actually working on the WB top. But... on those crucial moments when I sit in my shop chair by the heater with a cup of coffee and I randomly glance toward the top of my bench... I just love a hint of amber staring back at me in lieu of stark wood.
And now "you know the rest of the story" as told by the one who applies a light coat of natural Danish oil. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards for the Holidays David.. both yours and mine even though they differ in time...
Sarge..
"I just love a hint of amber..."Alright then, I can drink to that! A toast, a toast, to doing stuff "just because we like it"! Sarge, I'm really more benign and mellow than you might think. And a very happy holiday season to you and yours,David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
If I hadn't already figured you for benign and mellow David.... I wouldn't have kicked a little fun around on that return post in hopes some would get a chuckle as we have. Chuckles won't solve the world's economic problems but... it will divert attention to something a bit lighter for a few sacred moments.
Trust me... I didn't think the question was ask to justify a malice return... and was a really a very good question as many probably (?) apply finish on WB tops cause everyone else does. Not a very good reason to do anything but... a leading reason many things are done the way they are done. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards to my friend from across the pond which is not so wide since the invent of rapid communication...
Sarge.. who doesn't own a row-boat to cross ponds anymore but does have immediate access to a computer and a sense of humor.. at least I hope. :>)
Edited 12/16/2008 2:58 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 12/16/2008 2:59 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge, what happened to the "whaleback" bench? You still have that one too, don't you? Which do the pole dancers prefer? Or do they compete with each other from opposite ends of the shop?About the fruitcake that's been buried in the ground - based on my experience with some other foods that have to be buried in the ground as part of the preparation process - Korean Kim-chee and Phillipines Balut - an experience that includes some projectile hurling - I think I'd pass on that, as much as I do like food. Happy Holidays, Ed
That's the same bench I built about 6-7 years ago with the whale-back which I use on all I build, Ed. Doug fir base with the bottom fir shelf that adds additional support. The top you saw at that time was a laminate top I was experimenting on for the lack of a better description.
Which do the "pole dancers" (which was an inside joke going with BG and I from years ago) prefer? Well... not the whale-back but the assembly table which is the "bare-back" model as there is one in the front and a larger one in the rea shop for private dancing. And as man of your worldly travels knows.. of course they compete with each other to the point of eye scratching and hair pulling. You know very well that if a man with $ bills enters the room.. they can sense it without actually seeing it and will do everything in their power to get to the cash first. And of course when the cash is gone... they are "gone with the wind also" anticipating someone with more. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
The Claxton fruit cakes are somewhat of a joke locally as I really do know of a few that the same one passes from one family member to another each Xmas as it basically has become a running joke and somewhat of a family tradition. :>)
Now... being a pounder of the ground and not a fly-boy who can return to base daily with hot chow... I hate to admit but there have been more than one occasion I buried C ration crackers... etc. due to the fact you just grow tired of the same few things day after day. And with any luck it would stay buried but...
When a fire-fight with an enemy Division or Regiment reared it's ugly head without notice.. and no re-supply choppers could bring out more C's as ammo and water was the critical need on limited flights into a "hot LZ" well... you swallow your pride a bit and dig up the damn crackers... brush off the red ants and by God they tasted good and that's reality! ha.. ha... ha...ha..ha..
Regards for the Holidays Ed .. and comrade
Sarge
Edited 12/16/2008 9:46 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
What does SYP mean?
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
(soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Southern yellow pine...If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Southern yellow pine, Chris. The SYP is just one of those new-fangled inter-net code thangs.. ">)
Regards...
Sarge..
At the top of the Google results for SYP was Society of Young Philanthropists. I thought sure you had lured these youngsters into your shop, pounded them into planks, and then used the loose change that fell from their pockets for granite-topped tools. ;-)
No... but the cupboard is showing a shortage of "beenie weinies" with the economy so... maybe not a bad idea on grabbing some of their loose change and making a grocery store run. I love granite... but you have difficulty chewing for whatever reason. Maybe I should pre-boil it before throwing it on the grill? ...:>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,
I quit thinking about "weenies" months ago! Lots of rice and beans. The only meat we are eating is armadillo, squirrel. Waiting for spring to get some some cottonmouth stew going. this is in SE GA.
But!- my father used to say when I was a kid in VT. that "we aren't eating fried snowballs yet".
Hang in there.
Pete
You were probably kidding about rice and beans but... since I got a stint in the Iliac artery that feeds blood to both legs... I eat very little meat. I eat beans and rice about 4 times a week and love it as long as I have a case of Tabasco sauce on hand. For that matter there's not any vegetable that I don't like having grown up in a farm town which is called Metro Atlanta now. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
PCM,
I'm splurging and getting an assortment of exotic meats for Christmas dinner. You see, animal crackers are on sale at the grocery store...
Ray
I always wanted to be a philanthropist. Maybe I could apply for a federal subsidy?
There's an idea. We need a FWW philanthropist - someone who doles out free exotic woods, hand-made planes, fine chisels, etc. Convincing Congress that such activity warrants federal subsidy, however, might be a stretch. We'd need to form a powerful union first, I suspect. ;-)
The idea of a "Knothead Union" seems redundant, but we could sure give it a whirl! If that fails, we could always call ourselves the Wall Street Woodworkers and see if that gets us any funding.
Edited 12/20/2008 9:46 pm ET by heartwould
I was thinking along the lines of "United Bubinga Workers" (UBW), so as not to step on any trademarks. ;-)Although, "Woodworkers Pining Away" (WPA) has a nice ring.
Edited 12/20/2008 12:38 pm by RalphBarker
Sarge,
I noticed a chair AND a stool in the background. Do you do most of your work sitting down?
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
I wish I could do it sitting down, Frosty. The chair is in front of a natural gas space heater and where I do sit down taking a break down in the shop as I often come up-stairs for a cup of coffee. The stool resides in a little nook where you saw it (it was not pushed all the way back when I used it last) and does get the call when I chop DT waste at that end of the WB. I also drag it up when I am drawing arcs.. circles.. marking DT's.. etc.. etc.. on those type of occasions when I can take a load off my feet when work is directly in front of me for short periods.
So.. yes when I can and no most of the time as much movement is usually required between various simultaneous task in progress.
Regards...
Sarge..
That thing ain't goin' nowhere...
Thanks and I would agree with you on the matter, TT. The top is solid and so it the base which is even more important IMO. If you can't rack the base by offering 4 teen boys $20 bucks each to attempt to rack it before you add glue to the all through tenons... you're ready to add a top.
I use what I call a whale-back running down the center from end to end tied into the top cross stretchers with bridle joints. It's been pictured before but if you don't remember... here it is as it might be an idea for someone getting started. This base was built around 6-7 years ago and I just made the top about 14 months ago.
I make bases of Doug fir.. this particular one is a re-glued 12 x 10 beam I recovered from a civil war warehouse in under-ground Atlanta when they tore it down. I ripped it and then decided to use it for WB bases.
Regards for the holidays in Memphis...
Sarge..
Edited 12/16/2008 9:12 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Merry Christmas to you...
Did you just cull through the SYP at a big box store when you built your bench - stuff looks pretty clear to me.
I have purchased most of my stock from Suwanee Hardwood about 13 miles down the street since the mid 70's... but in the case of SYP, that's exactly where I get it. I have Lowe's and HD across the street from each other about 4 miles away and I am in the store for small shop items every couple of days.
When I have something coming up I am going to use it on, I pocket a pin type moisture meter and drop by the lumber racks. I hand pick through 2 x 12's looking for planks with the pith as close to center as possible... straight on the shelf... and then check them with the pin to be sure they aren't holding more than about 16%-18% moisture. Both these stores move quite a bit of SYP or did before the building slow-down. Therefore stock rotates every 3-4 days.
I may find all I need in one day.. I may pick up one or two that day and one or two a few days latter after a new bundle replaces the stock I looked at. Once I have them.. I take them home and let them air dry further on the shelf. Then rip 1/8" off the two outer edges to get rid of the round-over... then rip 3" from the outer rip to the center on each side yielding two 1 1/2" x 3" studs that have that //// diagonal ring marks I perfer. I simply throw the pith away or store it to use on shop cabinet frames.. utility... etc.
So.. just my method of ending up with straight stock going in. Occasionally a prepared stud will twist but what I have found is that if it was straight on the shelf when you chose it.. you let it acclimated properly once you took it home... it will generally stay straight for the most part.
Any slight bow will be pulled out when you put some heavy clamp pressure in a face glue. I generally face glue 3 studs at one time and let them dry. Then another 3 until all are glued. Then glue a 3 section to another 3 section until I get half the width of a top. The other half is done the same way. Then I run each half through a 20" planer and glue the two halves together.
Once the two are planed and joined... you reach for the #7 jointer to take off any center ridge and true the top as whole. Then you have reached the flat top "promise land". ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Sorry to be so detailed but I fine projects are nothing more than small details that are combined to work as one finished product.
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 12/17/2008 11:02 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 12/17/2008 11:06 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sounds good. I'm about to build two benches as the last gasp in the recovery from a fire a while back. Can't do Maple and Beech so SYP here I come.
I've built the last five with them (with the exception of a laminate top I was experimenting with) and I think you will be very happy with the SYP. At this point mine has hardened considerably but it it not as hard as it will get eventually. It works as well as maple or beech I have used in the past, frankly.
And as you know they aren't giving either away. I bought 16 board feet of maple about 3 days ago to build several kithchen knife holders for Xmas gifts for the women in my wife's family... Sheesh.. gas is now cheaper, for the time being anyway.
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,
A great idea using SYP for a bench top! I can attest to the hardness over time.
A few random questions/thoughts:
Construction lumber says KD 19, who knows what the real moisture content is! How do you know when your 2 x 12's are acclimated? When do you feel safe prepping your 1 1/2" x 3" studs?
What glue for your glue up? I would lean to PVA-yellow, but you may have a different idea.
You said your ROS is a Rigid(Metabo)-does Metabo make the Rigid ROS? I just bought a Metabo 1/2 sheet sander-so far a real jewel!
Glad to see a Steel City toy in one of your later photos. Oh, were we talking about Steel City? Their new 14" bandsaw with granite wheel is the one I want, or a Laguna 14". SC is the right price (especially in this economy, who knows what is down the road), 12" resaw with no riser block. But!!-they will be out "after the 1st qtr of 09". I can wait, but will call them soon to get a few specs. The idea of a granite wheel on this small a machine seems brilliant-like the huge machines in the old factories. They took forever to rev up, but what smooth running machines they were.
If I make a bench top out of SYP, I will apply BLO/turp-just because I like it! Hope this doesn't get a dressing down from Dave Ring. :>)
Sarge, you and your yours have a great Holiday Season!!
Pete
Thanks Pete... and I hardly doubt you will get a "dressing down" from David. David is a very knowledge-able machinery man who travels world wide installing. He is also a accomplished WW in his shop in Israel who I have great respect for. A really good guy. If he gets you (he won't.. trust me) I will get him. ha.. ha... just poking more fun, David... if you read this. :>)
First question... I take a Timber-check pin style moisture meter with me when I go "hunting". But.. even if you don't have one you just acquire the sense of knowing after you dig around stacks of SYP awhile. New bundles usually have drier planks on the outside of the strapped bundle. Those get more air than the middle where you might find some that are so wet it is obvious from touching and they give off a stronger sap smell than drier. Some dry gets shoved back also as people pick and shuffle so don't let anything go unseen in the rear of the stack. The piece you want seems to always be in the rear on bottom. :>)
Nothing scientific here but I go for under 18% on the shelf. But I am picky and will only select relatively dry.. must be basically straight on the shelf with virtually no bow.. cup or twist. I don't drag winding sticks along as you can turn a board on it's edge and eyeball it easily enough. It doesn't have to be perfect... but close and you may not find all you want in one day or one week for that matter. Don't fall in the trap of waiting until you need it and take what you can get as you will regret doing that usually. You are going to get some waste by not using the pith anyway but.. SYP is cheap or at least here. My top cost around $22.
Once you get it too your shop.. sticker it in the rack or whatever and then I check moisture with a digital moisture meter once there on occasion. Again.. if you don't have one... buy a few extra (it's cheap) boards and rip a slice off until you can eye-ball and feel relatively dry. When SYP gets below 12% I will work it even though I prefer furniture stock between 8% - 10% which is the closer to the environment they end up in.
Yes... my Rigid 6" ROS (I forgot the model #) was made by Metabo in W. Germany. Made in W. Germany is right on the side. When I heard Rigid was going to get them manufactured in China.... I hunted an old stock Metabo (Rigid) down after going to 3 local stores. The made in China version on the shelf now is the same design.. but I cannot tell where the motor is made or if the internals are made the same quality?
You saw one Steel City, Pete. I have 3 with another addition coming after Xmas. I know the president of Steel City Toolworks (Scott Box) and his brother Jim who heads the Technical Department. I guess you might say I know about all the people at Steel City. I have the SC 5 HP TS.. one of the first SC 18" BS's which I helped with a few minor design changes on.. and the Steel City 8" Ind. jointer with a granite fence. Scott Box dropped the proto-type granite fence off at my shop to field test just after SC introduced granite year before last at the Las Vegas Show. I helped Steel City set up for the International WW Fair in Atlanta before the show last August and demonstrated their tools during the show.
I have used the 14" SC granite table and wheel BS you like. The wheel is a piece of work indeed. When it starts turning it will produce more torque than a standard cast iron wheel as it weighs so much. Very nice BS and from a conversation with Jim Box a few days ago the price is gonna be right.
In a few weeks (when the new stuff hits Steel City in Murfreesboro, Tn) I have to go to Murfreesboro to pick up the proto-type 17" variable speed drill press as they ask me to field test it also. And of course I'm going to do it as I used it at IWF and want to put it through the paces. Not many machines I need after accumulating for almost 37 years but... I am looking forward to up-grading my DP with that variable speed with 6" quill travel. I could have used a 5 1/2" travel yesterday but worked around it as I have to do with only a 3 3/4" on my current press.
Regards to you and yours for a Happy Holiday, Pete.
Sarge..
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