I have had to glue up several wide walnut panels about 21″ wide and 53″ long. I worked with 4Q S2S stock. I jointed each side and when I layed out the pieces (3 or 4 each) for a panel they all seemed to match up very smoothly – no warpage. But by the time I glued and clamped them together one or two boards seemed to “migrate” somewhat so that when I unclamped the panel there was an uneveness across the width. The uneveness was right at the joint as if the board had been displaced about 1/32″ along its entire length. I can’t figure out why this keeps happening. I use clamping cauls, 5-6 pipe clamps and I clamp the ends of each joint to keep them aligned. I tried edge glueing the boards with and without biscuits and the result was the same. The glueing surface is very flat (the top of my TS) and I use a large flat 2×4 as a caul so the board is clamped between the TS and the caul. I have been putting the bar clamps across the top of the panel but don’t know if that would make any difference in this situation.
Anyway, as hard as I try I can’t get the 21″ boards through my 15″ planer. So out come the two old rusty handplanes I have proudly owned for years but have avoided having to learn how to use them. Yes, I bought the Garrett Hack Handbook but I am still trying to decide if my planes are smoother, jack, jointer, scrub, bench, etc.
Replies
When you do a glue up like that ,you should alternate the clamps from side to side.By putting all the clamps on one side of the boards the pressure is directing the boards into a curve over their width.This is probably why you often end up with one board slightly higher than the others.
Lay out every second clamp on your glue-up surface and place your boards on them.Just tighten the clamps enough to hold the boards in position and then put the other clamps on the top side of your boards.As you tighten the clamps use a mallet to gently bring them into a level surface.Don't over tighten the clamps.Use enough pressure to keep them where you have aligned them,but not enough to force them to shift.With the proper amount of glue,and the proper pressure on the clamps,you should see a thin line of glue squeeze out.
As for your plane,at 15" it is a jack plane.It will do the job you want quite well (with maybe a bit of TLC to it first).
Brent
Thanks for the tips Brent. It may also be that I am putting too much glue on the edges of the boards causing them to slip, although with the caul and the end clamps I can't see how that could happen. I'll try the alternate clamp approach.
My biggest problem in planing the panel surface has been gouges. Maybe I have the plane set for too deep a cut or I have not rounded over the edge of the blade sufficiently.
My biggest problem in planing the panel surface has been gouges. Maybe I have the plane set for too deep a cut or I have not rounded over the edge of the blade sufficiently.
Jack
Most bench planes have their type number cast into the upward face of the heel end of the plane; 4 is a smoother, 5 is a jack, 6 is a try, 7 is a jointer etc...
As for your gouges, you don't want to round the edge of the blade; doing that will render it useless. What you need to do is "clip" the corners ever so slightly, then adjust the plane to take a shaving without causing any tear out. To level the boards, work diagonally across the grain before retuning the blade to take a real fine cut and start to smooth the panel by working along the grain. Remember to re-sharpen whenever the tool starts to struggle in the cut. If the blade chatters at all you're taking too deep a cut..Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
"What you need to do is "clip" the corners ever so slightly, then adjust the plane to take a shaving without causing any tear out."
Thanks for the info on plane size and nomenclature. I have been trying to figure that out for months. As to the quote above, what does "clip" mean?
As to the quote above, what does "clip" mean?
Jack, my apologies for taking so long to get back to you. I'll try to keep this short and sweet..
There's 3 basic styles to a honed blade, straight cut (like a chisel??), straight with clipped corners (where the corners have been relieved with a real small radius) or cambered where the whole width of the blade is one long gentle camber.
To clip the corners all I do is tilt the blade while dragging it backwards over the stone, gradually increasing the tilt with each pass until I can see clearly that the corner has been relieved. My eyes aren't what they used to be so that probably means I'm making the radii bigger than they need to be, but you get the idea; each outer corner of the cut is going to gradually fade rather than leave distinctive tram lines.
Cambering the entire blade is something that David Charlesworth demonstrates perfectly in his videos... Basically what you do is visually divide the edge of the blade into 5; left, left of centre, centre, right of centre and right. Hone the blade conventionally to begin with, applying even pressure over the whole tip of the blade. To hone the camber, rather than applying even pressure right across the blade, you focus the pressure into the 4 off centre locations, drawing the blade back over the stone for 4 or 5 strokes at each left / right of centre location followed by the same at the two outer locations. It doesn't need much more than that; you don't want to end up with a scrub plane profile here...
The effect left in the board is very subtle witness marks showing the slight differences in cut depth that again negates the tram lines of a straight cut blade...
hope this helps..Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I think I follow what you're saying about putting a camber on the cutting edge. I'll give it a try. Thanks.
I can't remember which mag I saw it in, but one of the them had planes for the Sled that Pat mentioned withing the past year.
As I remember it ( and that is not as good as it used to be), it was a flat base with 2 sides that workpice would fit between and could be wedged into, a wide reinforced panel that goes across the top and can move along the length of the base unit and a that a router on a rectangular base would fit on. Put a flat bottom cleaning router bit in your router, put the workpiece in the setup and shim with harboard so that the router bit will sit on a playing card on the piece. start at one end, going back and forth to remove the high spots, lower router bit 1/16" and do it again. once you get to a final pass, maybe use a 1/32" cut
Use a cabinet scraper to finish the process1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Are you using curved cauls??? The curved cauls keep pressure in the middle so it won't matter if you put all the clamps on one side. I've glued up 4' x 8" panels myself and get perfect registration and simply scrape off the glue. I'm talking about multiple boards...like 4 to 10 boards.
The caul I used was flat. maybe you're right in that this caused the center board(s) to rise up slightly. What sort of curve would you suggest over a 21" width. If the center of the caul was resting on the center of the panel, how far would the ends of the caul be above the panel edges?
The cauls don't need much of curve. An 1/8" over four feet is what we typically use with hardwood cauls. The cauls are about 1" wide and 1-1/2" tall and 48" long. Longer cauls will work for long or short panels so to keep it simple we just use 48". We put strips of plastic so the glue doesn't stick and use a caul every 12" to 16" in pairs of course. You could also put packing tape on the cauls. Whatever works! The curve keeps the pressure in the center of the panel. The curved cauls are also good for clamping up large carcass work so they are very handy to keep around. Also it helps to spend a bit more care in the milling of the stock. Obviously you want all the boards to be the same thickness. We typically set our cauls on a pair of beams to allow the assembley to be raised enough to get clamps in place. With the cauls you can use simple pipe clamps and not have to us a mallet to get all the boards to line up. Everyone has a special technique to glue their panels so you have to figure out what is simple for you but it makes sense to spend a little extra time in prep rather than trying to fix a problem later.There is an article on using the router to flatten panels in this months issue of one of the hobby mags so check your local Barnes and Noble or maybe someone will mention what mag it is. I just saw it the other day at Barnes and Noble. I didn't read the article but it's a pretty basic operation.
I'll try to make up some cauls with the sizes you mentioned. Thanks again.
Rick,
I agree with your advice, except this -
The cauls do NOT exert pressure in the center. They do exactly the opposite which is why they work. They touch the wide panel first at the center because that's the tangent to the curve. Then pressure at the ends is distributed evenly (more or less) across the width of the paned (the length of the cauls). Because that's the mechanical consequence of the curve.
The end clamping pressure is felt FIRST by the panel at its center, then progressively outward toward the ends of the cauls as the clamps are tightened.
The correct curve is determined by the type of wood that the cauls are made of and the cross section of the caul. The right curve is one which allows the caul to deform into a straight line on the panel surface as the ends are brought down to contact the surface. Not enough curve, and the center pressure is weak. Too much and the end pressure is weak.
Rich
curved cauls..
What I was going to recommend... I always use them. However, I have never found anywhere how much of a curve is needed for a specific width.
I would assume you would need many different length with a specific curve to 'do it right'.. But I just use the 20 or so I made that are about 4 1/2 feet long.
As I remember I have about 1/4" crown over the length.. I have no idea if it was right or wrong.. Just what I did.
If anyone knows yell at me!
I find 1/8" is fine with maple curved cauls 1" w x 1-1/2" h x 48" long and more curve for a softwood caul. Whatever works is fine. A lot of folks don't know about this technique it seems.
Rick is right regarding the cauls. If they are straight cauls, when you clamp them at the ends, the will inwardly distort upward rather than lying flat.
There is another trick I recently learned and that is to bevel cut your clamping blocks so the edge that goes against the face of the clamp is shaped like one-half of a hexagon. This is particularly good with pony clamps since their pressure is exerted at a downward angle which tends to force the wood up. What the beveled blocks do is move the direction of the force more to the center of the block and mitigates some of the pressure that wants to raise the boards at their outward edge. I saw this is a publication by David Chatsworth. I tried them and it worked so well that I converted all of my clamping blocks. I also make a thinner set of blocks for clamping thin panels.
Doug
Is there a sketch of these clamping blocks you could send?
One thing that I rarely seen mentioned in talking about flattening glued up panels with planes - perhaps because it is too obvious - is that the flattening goes much better if all the boards are oriented so that the gran direction (as far as leaving a smooth rather than torn out surface) is all the same. Otherwise, you can encounter problems when you go to plane at a seam where the grain directions of the joined boards are going in opposit ways.
This is just my personal experience, and I'm pretty much self taught when it come to handplaning technique (other than an occassional article here and there), so maybe someone here with more experience can tell me if I'm missing something and wasting time in arranging my grain directions in anticipation of planing?
Thanks.
It makes sense to have the grain running in the same direction for planing, wood stability and for appearance. Also, I was taught that when joining boards you match as close as possible the the end-grain direction as well. Matched end grains will help minimize uneven movement and cupping.
Doug
I have run into the very thing you're talking about. Unfortunately sometimes I had to orient the board with opposite grain direction to get the right look but you have to be very careful when you plane.
For no more mismatch than you mention,a scraper works for me. It`s fast and no tearout.
As a patternmaker,I find it helpful on wide glueups,where accuracy and flatess are important,to use a pair of wood parallels,and my black granite surface plate. A dedicated router sled across the parallels makes the job fast and easy.I use pieces of double stick tape to anchor the panel to the surface plate.
Work safely¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
I have been interested in router sleds but have not been able to find any plans for these things.
No plans.I make each one to fit the job at hand.
I do like to use 1/2" acrylic for the base so that I can see the progress of the work.
Work safely¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬Thank you,Mr.Croney,where ever you may be.
Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Pat... that's cheatin...
;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
If you are looking for a router sled plan, here is one: http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/makingitplane.pdfThis is not something to do to lots of workpieces, but if you have a large surface that must be flattened, it works. The rest of the highland hardware technique library is worth reading too.
Thanks Alan. I read the article about the sled and it was very interesting. I noticed the author screwed the rails to the workbench he was trying to level. I would need something that could be used on individual pieces of wood without having to somehow attach each piece to the sled.
Jackhall:I think a critical feature of router sled jointing is holding the workpiece solidly so it can't move relative to the rails upon which the router sled rides. If you make a separate structure that carries the rails, I think you will still want wedges, hot glue, screws, or something to lock your workpiece into place. You might get away with simply using hot glue to affix an edge jointed board to each side of the workpiece, aligned as described in the link. Smaller pieces can be done on a router table with this method: the straight edges ride on the table top, and the bottom face gets flattened. Alan
I certainly agree with the need to keep the piece secure while routing the top. I wonder if you could install clamps in the rails somehow?
I know how you feel about planes. I too was afraid of them. My fear came from the realization that I would have to sharpen them! I learned the scary sharp method with sand paper and a piece of granite. After I could sharpen a chisel I moved up to the planes. Someone here recommended some videos by David Charlesworth and Rob Cosman on planing. The best help I received. I can now take a twisted board and flatten a surface in no time (still shocks me). You can get the videos at Lie-neilsens web site (http://www.lie-nielsen.com). They are in the video section. David just released a third in the series. Here is another good link on planes and uses. Again provided by someone here in the group (sorry for not remembering who). It explains in pretty good detail. It is amazing to pick up a shaving that you can see through. Pretty cool, and no hearing protection required.
http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm
I made a glue up jig that is similar to the plano press. It is simple and cheap to make, will help you keep the boards flat while glue dries. Use plenty of clamps and alternate the clamps . When done only minor scraping with a card scraper will be necessary.
I've posted a couple of pictures of the clamps. The pic shows 7 clamps hanging on beveled hanging strips off the lumber rack.Another pic shows what a single clamp looks like.It consists of 2x3's bored 7/16" in diameter on 3" centers. 3/8" tee nuts are on the back of the inside 2x3.3/8"x10" bolts are quickly drawn up with a cordless drill and socket adapter. I sometimes add plywood washers on the front ,the bolts do not have enough thread and I only bought 10" bolts.
When clamping boards up, first make a dry run without gluing. This way all of your clamps will be set at the right length. I only snug the boards with the bolts at first, set the clutch on the drill so it doesn't pull up tight.Then add the pipe clamps and snug them up. Check the face of the glue up, if everything looks flush,tighten the pipe clamps. If the boards are not flush ,loosen pipeclamp in that area and tighten the bolts up til its flush.I use 7 clamps in 8'-0". Most of the time you are gluing shorter boards but use as many as you think you need to keep the glue up flush
mike
Looks very interesting. I probably won't have time to set up anything on my current project since I am almost through with the glue-ups. Will keep you pics in my Tips Book.
I have something like that.. However I have some of them hydraulic car jacks that attach to the rafters.. NO I DO NOT crank them up! Just a bit!
Metod,
I think the biscuit for board alignment is pretty much a waste. I stopped using them for that purpose a couple of years ago and haven't missed a beat. The biscuit tollerance is just to broard to play a significant roll in alignment and you need to place them as far from the top as possible so you don't get witness half rounds later on. I think Norm has stopped using them for top glue ups too.
That is not to say they arn't helpful in other situations.
Metod,
I just didn't want you to be saving up your nickles in the hopes that flatter tops would result. I bought it for flat tops and face frames...the way Norm uses it. Well...I almost always run a shallow grove on the face frames too..to hide the chip out on the plywood..sigh.
Nope, there are shortcuts, only a sharp flat plane can make a flat top...opps, are we back on ceramic stones again...lol
Edited 5/10/2005 6:07 pm ET by BG
Your panel glueups should be done with thoroughly shop-seasoned roughsawn, overthick stock (minimum 4/4 rough for finished 3/4). Skim plane the faces. Emphasis on skim. Skim them by hand. Accurately joint the edges. Glue up the panel with the most attractive matching of grain and color that you can conjur up. Orient grain in the same direction if you can to make further processing much easier.
Set the panel aside for about a week. Then flatten, thickness, rip and crosscut right before putting it into the project.
You don't need curved cauls and all that crapola.
"Skim plane the faces"
The process you outlined is pretty much what I followed, except for the skim plane step. What is the purpose of this step?
If you are working with roughsawn lumber (and you always should) you need to skim plane it to reveal color and grain before you decide on the orientation of the individual boards.
I am working with S2S lumber so I thought I could use a scraper and with a few light passes determine the grain direction.
My overall methodology will be more applicable for your next project where, hopefully, you will start with roughsawn lumber which will give you the thickness you need to produce a flat panel at the moment you need to put it into your project.
It is much more efficient to glue up skim planed boards that are sufficiently overthickness than it is to attempt to glue up individual boards already at, or frighteningly close, to finished thickness. When you do the latter you have to sweat the glue-up like crazy. It's not worth it. Glue up roughsawn boards and then process as a whole.
The point behind a glued-up panel is to put you on even footing with the woodworker of yesteryear who would have STARTED with a wide, roughsawn board and then would have proceeded to flatten and process the part needed for his project.
Again, starting with individual boards at or very, very close to desired finished thickness is a recipe for frustration and ultimately waste as project parts have to be discarded because of excessive movement (and can't be brought to truth because no thickness remains with which to do so).
"It is much more efficient to glue up skim planed boards that are sufficiently overthickness than it is to attempt to glue up individual boards already at, or frighteningly close, to finished thickness."
You are certainly correct. I was planning on using lumber that was 13/16" S2S and assummed that would give me enough mis-alignment margin that I would be able to get a final thickness of 3/4". I guess I was too optimistic. For next time, where would I find rough sawn hardwood lumber (ie walnut)? That is not exactly what one sees in all the local lumber yards. I wound up getting my lumber from a dealer in/near Sacremento and he never mentioned rough cut.
Of course a sixteenth is not really enough except under perfect circumstances.
There are lots of dealers around who sell lumber in the rough, boule, etc.
The classfied ads in the back of FW have several. I've bought from most of them and they are all good.
I've driven to New Orleans to buy Mahogany (port of entry for most of it). Good excuse for a road trip. Otherwise, there are a couple of suppliers in my home town that I use.
Are you dealing with an importer for the mahogany or a regular hardwood dealer in New Orleans. What do you pay? I wouldn't mind a good overnight trip.
Doug
Riverside Lumber - give them a call.
Edited 5/18/2005 3:16 pm ET by cstan
Thanks - I will.
If you start with 13/16" S2S, you should be able to glue well enough to finish at 13/16".What you need are wider boards.
George, you humble me with your "no loss" rule for glue-ups. I agree, it would have been worth the extra money for wider boards but in my case I had great difficulty finding any 4/4 walnut over 7" wide here in Calif.
These people may have some wide 4/4:http://walnutwoods.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NW&Product_Code=34-28C4&Category_Code=LThey are in California.If you can measure the amount you have to plane off, you are not taking enough time on your glueups. If you use only 2 boards, you can glue the boards so the center is crowned up, 1/32", on the good side. Then you can plane just the area around the glue joint.
Edited 5/19/2005 6:42 pm ET by GeorgeR
"If you can measure the amount you have to plane off, you are not taking enough time on your glueups. "
I think I discussed my problems on another thread but basically I did a dry fit with a flat clamping caul and clamping the ends of the boards to get alignment and everything remained absolutely flat. But when I actually applied the glue and the glue dried I found the boards were out of alighnment. I tried using biscuit wafers and they did not seem to help. An earlier post recommended I use a curved caul and maybe that was the mistake. I also had put all my clamps on the same side (and even I know better than that). In any event, my mistakes are in the past. The boards are all glued up and await my inexperienced hand planing skills to flatten them out.
curved caul .. I use them.. AND.. Sometimes I just put a two 4/4 oak on top and a hydraulic jack to the rafters... Really.. NOT excessive jack pressure.. Just enough to KEEP it FLAT!
Hydraulic jacks! Now that sounds like a sure-fire technique. At least that's one way to apply pressure in the center of a wide board glue-up.
Gentlemen,
I have been following this thread on surfacing and joining wide boards with some amazement and dis-belief.
Briefly there are some simple requirements for getting the right results for the least pain:-
1)You will have the required number of Rough Sawn boards to hand . Assuming 4/4 they will be straight enough for you machine one edge and one face TRUE-the job of the surfacer or jointer. The next port of call is the thicknesser/planer, where you will arrive at the required thickness-assume 20mm or 3/4 inch. Any boards which did not come to specs are u/s-you should have selected better stuff at source.
The next port of call then is the table saw where you will rip for width-usually as wide as possible, before jointing this edge.
Note:- If your planer is only good for say 12 inches, and you have 20 inch stuff then the standard practice is to rip these in half, having marked the ends so they can be re-glued as they were.No, it is not the end of the world.
2)Then lay out your boards on a bench or glueing table- or the floor, and match them for appearance, and number them accordingly.Then back to the jointer to take a light cut off the edges to be joined. I assume that you have set it up to machine TRUE. At this stage I like to shoot those edges with my # 7 or #6 or#5.5-depends on the length.
3)And here is where the buck or crapola stops- on your glueing table you have laid out 4 DECENT sash clamps/bar clamps. A decent clamp is something like the Record heavy tee bar which is normally straight and will not distort under pressure. Assuming we are using boards of 6 feet or so in length there will be a clamp at each end and one on either side of the middle. You can avoid staining by using thin masking tape on the calamps.Place your boards on the clamps in number order and adjust clamps to size- here you can do a dry run and see if any boards are not wanting to lie flat- shouldn't be the case if you have used your nice long bed jointer properly-but it can happen.
4)Apply glue and rub into alignment-more glue is better than less glue. Put some pressure on the clamps and tap down any boards with steps so they are all flush then tighten clamps evenly- no need to screw the s#t out of them. Wipe the glue line with what you like -sponge ,shavings etc, then set another 3 clamps on top, turn the whole lot over and clean the squeeze out. Leave to dry .
5)When dry whip out your card scraper and clean up. It may happen that that one or two small discrepancies have crept in-no need to panic-your smoothing plane will sort that out.Difficult grain?- no worries, you plane it across the grain,yes across, then back to your trusty scraper.
Another note:-depending on the size of the top
or panel to be joined it is better to glue up two halves i.e if there are 6 boards then do 2 glue ups of 3 boards each then the final.
So there has been no crapola with jacks , ceiling joists, curved cauls, fancy "straightening " clamps, hydraulic presses etc., and especially no need to hand plane huge amounts to straighten or arrive at the required thickness. You easily live another day to join up huge panels and tops without sweat.
Hopefully I have made some points here without anyone taking umbrage-wood work is supposed to be enjoyable -yes?
P.S.While you are machining your (seasoned) timber you should stack it so that the air can circulate freel yand evenly all round it i.e place spacers between each board.
If one has the hand tool skills or the necessary machinery it is much better to flatten the panel and bring it to finished thickness as a unit instead of fully processing the individual boards before gluing up.
If you do this, you will never have a problem. No dips and swales. No problems with scraping dry or semi-dry glue and having a chunk come up that requires filling. No problems. Nada. Perfect panel. Flat, suitable for dovetailing or any other joinery that might need to be cut.
Edited 5/24/2005 7:19 am ET by cstan
Sorry cstan, can't go along with that. Even though I do have the skills you refer to I have neither the time nor the superhuman strength. You really want me to make a ten foot long dining room table top that way???
All professionals do it the way I have out-lined, as do factories,but with some refinements such as wide belt sanders, glue joint cutters and pnuematic clamps.
But don't get me wrong- if you enjoy your woodworking like that I am the last person to stop you.
Jackhall did say he was having some difficulties joining up panels /tops- I am suggesting that his methods are contributing to this.
Edited 5/24/2005 4:44 pm ET by mookaroid
Heavens to Mergatroid, Mookaroid...
Do you ever buy wide boards or come across wide lumber? If so, how do you process it? What methods do you use to flatten and thickness very wide lumber?
I just throw it on my bench and start working on it.
A mechanized shop would run it through a wide belt or drum sander.
Please don't tell me that you do the rip and re-glue Cha-Cha-Cha.
JackHall is having trouble because he left himself no room to flatten a glue up that would have to have been perfect.
I absolutely agree with you that you don't need cauls and all that other crap (read my earlier post) because gluing up at finished thickness unecessarily puts a knife at one's own throat. There is no reason to work with individual boards at finished thickness if you can bring the entire panel to finished thickness and flatness after the glue-up is completed.
I've seen more than one large operation and virtually nobody does it any other way than this. Material is glued up over finished thickness, set aside for a while, and wrapped up on wide belt or drum sanders. While the home hobbyist may not have all this equipment available to him that is no reason to abandon the logic of gluing up over thickness. A portable hand planer or even a belt sander with frame could be brought to bear if hand tools skills are lacking.
Edited 5/25/2005 11:52 am ET by cstan
Heavens to Mergatroid..
DANG.. Reminded me of a OLD radio show and I can't remember which one...
Geeee Please help me I'm goin' nuts thinkin'!
Will,
That was Snagglepuss, cartoon mtn lion, if I remember rightly.
Exit, stage left,
Ray
Snagglepuss...
Could be! I watched ALOT of cartoons watchin' all my grandkids!
I still got two little ones to go... then I'm finished... I HOPE!
It is SnagglePuss... and I'm about to exit, stage left....
Character in the Yogi Bear cartoon.
Edited 5/27/2005 1:38 pm ET by cstan
Jack Benny? Burns & Allen? Amos & Andy? Charley McCarthy? Lum & Abner ? Red Skelton ? Dagwood & Blondie ?
Lum & Abner ? LOL
I tum' forgot about them!
Cstan,
Obviously we are on opposite ends of the spectrum: talking from the point of view of professionals , master craftsmen and the industry the paradigm I outlined is most certainly the way it is done.
To answer your question: I am not keen on very wide boards, for various reasons which could make the subject of a different thread, but I still use them. A wide board that is both cupped and twisted can only be recovered by ripping and re-joining- if one tried to plane /sand(by hand or machine) there would be less or no chance chance of achieving the specified thickness.I had some Imbuia timber like that and no ordinary person could see that what had been done- the timber would have been wasted otherwise.The trick is to join it properly.
Anyway, I repeat: I am not about to stop people enjoying their woodworking-quite the opposite.I was merely saying that process of joining timber into panels , huge tops etc. should be routine and not a big deal, if one uses the correct methods.
On a lighter note I retire from this thread with the following comment: I am aware that the Flat Earth Society has recently been dis-banded, but I am now left wandering if the Luddites have been been resuscitated....Edited 5/26/2005 2:53 am ET by mookaroid
Edited 5/26/2005 6:15 am ET by mookaroid
"I'm not keen on very wide boards..."
'Nuff said. Speaks volumes.
Our woodworking predecessors must have had a devil of a time trying to find small trees with all those pesky magnificent bastards getting in the way.
Edited 5/26/2005 3:10 pm ET by cstan
Our woodworking predecessors must have had a devil of a time trying to find small trees with all those pesky magnificent bastards getting in the way.
'scuse me while I wipe the coffee offa my monitor.. won't be a minute...
<chucklin..Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I find I can carry 4/4x20"x9' cherry boards around.I saw some wonderful 8/4x30"x12' cherry boards. I had no hope of stacking them let alone working on them.
cstan, old boy,
You have missed the point I was making. I have the feeling thatI have seen and used more beautifull wide and long boards than you have had cups of tea or Jim Beam - the methods used have been shall I say Progressive or Modern- thus allowing me more time to a) be more productive,b)enjoy woodworking even more and c) make a living.
Our ancestors did not cut down the BIG trees-in fact they avoided them as they lacked the equipment-get the point?
I love very wide boards (24 inches plus)- it's the associated all too often found problems that I am "not keen on".And those problems are not fixable by use of hand planing.
There are none as blind as those who won't see.
I'm sure you have, Mookaroid.
Edited 5/27/2005 10:59 am ET by cstan
Jim Beam .. We talk at the kitchen table ALOT at night and look at the moon!
I have neither the time nor the superhuman strength.
I musta missed a page here.. superhuman strength.?? My lower back's as reliable as shot knicker elastic and I've a heart condition. I manage just fine with my handplanes; what's the prob.??
You really want me to make a ten foot long dining room table top that way???
At the risk of repeating myself... why not?? The auldtimers managed in the days before woodmunchers were a figment of some warped imagination. Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Mike,
"the auldtimers managed......before wood munchers...figment of warped imagination. I agree-they "managed" until someone came up with A Better Method, and things progressed.Now I know that the Luddites are (barely) alive...
"you really want me to make a ten foot d/t that way?". I want to see you clean up 30square feet of a "nice "timber like Wenge or Jatoba with hand planes only-even you might enjoy it , but not for long!
If you go to thread #23515.9 you will see that I have some planes and use them a lot- however I am not about to cultivate my corn field with a hoe when there is a John Deere available.You did ask what the problem was- I thought I had explained it.
Hopefully you will accept these words gracefully, and not emulate the Luddites- that is go out and destroy all the dreaded woodmunchers.
...figment of warped imagination.
horsefeathers..!! Spend 5 mins looking at the work of Sherriton, Hepplethwate or Chippendale to see how things were before woodmunchers...
I'm not so narrow minded as to think that hand planes can compete with machine tools in a commercial shop, they can't match the speed of a machine, however, in a test for quality of finish, hand planes can and will wipe the floor with yer machines every time... that corrigated surface is for the birds... and tear out..??????
I do this as a hobby, time is unimportant to me as I seldom set deadlines for project completion. I don't have the shop space or the budget to buy the machines that'd give semi-comparable quality; jointers, planers, dust extractors, ducting, blast proof rooms, blast gates... sheesh... gimme my planes and a broom and I'll show ya how a board with nice looking figure should look... no snipe, no tear out, no dust, no noise, no fire hazzard... just a thoroughly enjoyable and productive workout...
Luddite..? naaaa.. you're entitled to play with your toys in peace.. I tried them; bought the best I could afford and found them sadly lacking...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Mike, old china,
Sorry to take so long to respond-have been doing an expo of my work.You may be interested in the following two questions (amongst many others):-
" How did you achieve this superb finish?" and
"where did you find these wide boards?"
This from other professional woodworkers...but the laugh is that none of those wide boards were single boards.You did say it can't be done -I would love to prove it to you.Tear out? I never get any except from very evil timbers the likes of which it sounds as though you have never heard of, and never anything that can't be easily 'disappeared' with scrapers or planes.Planer ripples?-these are barely seen when using a decent machine properly-again they disappear at the mere wave of a scraper.Snipe?-not acceptable-owner/operator has failed to set up the machine properly. Dust/noise?-small price to pay-take precautions. Referring to Sheraton, Hepplewhite and Chippendale (note correct spelling)-these three icons , being intelligent, would undoubtedly have welcomed the use of power planes etc. had it been available then.
Anyway, I am about to suffer sense of humour failure on these long posts- possibly through attempting to preach to swine instead of making silk purses out out of sow's ears, but it's been fun and I hope you have not lost your sense of humour- by the way I lived in Aberdeen for 3 years-certainly your average Aberdonian had a great sense of humour-even in the middle of the North Sea-how about you?
P.S.How big is your corn field?
...but the laugh is that none of those wide boards were single boards.You did say it can't be done -I would love to prove it to you.
right now I'm working a bookmatched pair of Sycamore boards, 9ft long, 21" wide and about 1 1/2" thick. My shop's a mere 11 1/2 ft by 7 1/2 ft; try squeezin wood-munchers in there...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
"My shop's a mere 11.5x....
aye Laddie , ah see fit the problem is: hardly nuff room to swing a cat, let alone throw down a widish x longish 5/4.No chance of building /xtending?
What are you going to make with that Sycamore-is it fiddleback-if you have the means would like to see pictures of result.
There is a gentleman in this neck of the woods who specialises in making
single plank servers and tables-his right arm is twice as long as his left.
More room.?? naaa.. I don't own the place so I gotta make do with what I have. There's enough, barely, if I suck in and walk sideways. Things get kinda interesting when I've to work with full sheets of ply, but fortunately that never lasts too long.
The sycamore's destined for 2 projects; right now I'm making a hanging tool cabinet along the same lines of Chris Becksvoort's; the sycamore's destined to be the fields in the doors. The remainder is penciled in to become part of a secretary I've been mulling over for a while now. I don't have anything like enough stock for it yet, but how often do ya pluck two boards at random from a stack to find they're bookmatched..? Gotta do something that brings out the best in them...
They're not fiddleback; right now I'm still finding out exactly what I have underneath the mill-marks <writing while taking a breather> The figure so far is reminiscent of raindrops on a pond... ripples diffusing, converging, interacting... it's nice... hard going but nice... Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
The notion that fine, wide boards aren't treasured by most makers of fine furniture is just patently ludicrous. Period.
Hello cstan,
"the notion that fine wide boards aren't treasured..."
Agreed- but they must be mighty fine to merit the extra work needed to utilise them. They must have good figure and not so twisted that too much is wasted sorting them out,that is when I am "not keen on wide boards". It seems that too many people are afraid of joining ,asif this requires a lot of skill.The skill comes up when, there being no alternative , one has to cut and rejoin so that the board still has the grain pattern of one i.e the figure is not spoiled.Often , when one has had to do this , in addition to the satisfaction of preserving that nice timber, there is an added bonus- tensions may have been released and the board is more stable.
Are we now on the same wave length?
I think that people should fill in their profiles with more detail, to avoid talking at cross purposes-I mean take this instance-you could be a lot older and grander than even me....
I am not referring to unusable lumber, poorly seasoned lumber, or twisted beyond redemption lumber.
You keep referring back to stock in such a state (or very prone to go into this state) and it is obvious to all except the most uninitiated that such lumber is worthless (unless ripped down) regardless of its width or otherwise beautiful color and grain.
I am always on the lookout for wide lumber in good shape. It saves me work, lends more authenticity to the work that I do, and is generally a pleasure to use. I'll grant you that it is bulky and unwieldy but I don't mind.
Let me repeat. Wide lumber saves me work.
Nothing thrills me more than not to have to glue up a panel.
Nothing thrills me more than the unimpeachable and uninterrutped flow of grain and color in one wide board.
Let's also put another matter to rest. Jointing and gluing up panels is an entry level skill most of us mastered a long time ago. Trust me when I tell you that I certainly have. I can do it in my sleep. My 14 year old son can practically do it in his. It is made especially easy by not attempting to glue up boards that are already at, or a hair away from, finished thickness.
I would also like to think that matching color and grain in glued up panels requires some sort of special talent but quite frankly it doesn't. Certainly it doesn't if one is simply ripping down wide lumber and re-gluing it. It only takes a bit more experience to pull narrow boards from a pile and arrive at something that will be pleasing when jointed and glued.
I don't rip and reglue wide boards in an effort to "release tension" or any of that other rot. I buy quality lumber from good sources and allow it to fully acclimate to my shop. I have been disappointed only a handful of times and never on a piece that was actually delivered. My experience has obviously been better than yours and I'll chalk that up to luck and nothing more.
Nothing has happened in my shop to change my basic methodology which is to use nice wide boards whenever they are available.
I would be most surprised if the vast majority of furnituremakers don't agree with my approach.
Edited 5/31/2005 10:39 am ET by cstan
Have to agree with cstan here - edge-joining isn't a remarkable skill, especially with power jointers. Even with hand planes it was one of the first techniques I learned. Ripping a wide board and re-joining it is just about the simplest thing I can imagine. Nevertheless, like cstan, I would always rather not have to do panel glue-ups. My overriding goal in panel joinery is to try to make something that looks like it was a single board. (Pretty easy in some woods, much more difficult with my favorite - QSWO.)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
Cstan, O one of no (forum) profile and much tension,
Unwind-you are preaching to the (long) converted:I have been passionate about most things to do with woodworking since I was 12 yrs old.
A small issue- a "panel" to me is a smallish item which fits into a frame-as in frame and panel-no issue here-I keep wider stuff for this.
But a board room table 5ft wide is something else-I will glue it up from stuff as wide as possible which has been carefully machined to thickness-no sweat or fear of mis-alignment. You develop your triceps whilst I may over heat my thumbs on the scraper. The end result had bloody well meet the right standard in both cases.We both live to enjoy another day.
I would like to know more about correpondents on this forum-especially you-how about some more info on your profile?
Have a good day.
Professional furnituremaker for about 15 years, serious hobbyist all of my adult life. Most, but not all, of my commissions these days are sets of chairs. This is of my own choosing. I have been lucky enough to move my area of concentration around as my circumstances, skills, and interests have evolved. The bulk of my 'notoriety' a term I use very loosely came as an amateur when I had gobs of time to spend on a single project.
I was a juried member of a fairly well-known guild but no longer participate in that organization for various reasons. I no longer build speculative pieces for display at galleries. I'm in the shop when I have booked commissions. When not there, and time allows, you will find me on the golf course where I maintain a 4 handicap (scratch until I turned 40). Sometimes I work out a thorny design issue by hitting golf balls, usually with a 2 iron, into a net beside the shop. I have always been a helluva good long iron player. FWIW, I play Hogan Apex 50 blades with Royal Precision Flighted Rifle shafts in a stiff flex. I still use a Titleist 975D driver (10.5* reshafted with Diamana graphite) and Titleist 975F fairway metals (TruTemper X100 shafts, soft-stepped) although I am considering a Cleveland Launcher 460 driver. From time to time I play with old persimmon drivers and fairway woods. I have a collection of vintage persimmon golf clubs, many of which were played by PGA tour pros. My ball of choice is the new Nike Platinum. Best feel and spin of any ball since the old Titleist Professional wound Balata.
I too would have to glue-up a tabletop for a boardroom table five feet wide as I have never seen in person a slab sixty inches wide.
When referring to glue-ups I am referring to preparing an expanse of stock to fill a need in a project. It could be a tabletop, carcase side, floating panel, you name it. Sorry for the confusing terminology. You're right, a panel does bring to mind the floating kind in a cabinet door.
Pretty wide boardhttp://www.dumonds.com/slab_gallery_page3.htmThere were some 3" x 5' x 6' walnut slabs for sale elsewhere, but I could not find them today. (100bdft apiece as I recall $5000)58" might be close enough to 5' for Bubingahttp://www.goodhope.com/Lumberyard/Bubinga/bubingaslab.htmand some redwood http://www.redwoodburl.com/dining_tables.htm
Edited 6/1/2005 3:48 am ET by GeorgeR
Hello Cstan,
Thanks for the info.I have never been "good at sport", but golf would be my choice if I were to take one up now.When I could have been learning how to play golf (i.e.in my twenties)there waswood to be worked,cars to be maintained and work to be done which involved lots of after hours study (the equivalent of your C.P.A) plus military call-ups .They play lots of golf here, but the weather is not what I am used to so tend to prefer staying out of it.
I have to say that I had a quiet chuckle when you said that you are now into chairmaking-a far cry from sweating over huge wide boards! Sounds like you are on a good wicket with your woodworking -I have come to N.Z and have to literally start again.
Re the golf again- are you using mechanised means to carry all the kit around and yourself??!
If you have not already done so, I would like you to visit my web site at http://www.collectablefurniture.co.nz.
"I have to say that I had a quiet chuckle when you said that you are now into chairmaking-a far cry from sweating over huge wide boards!"
Surely, you must be joking. Wide lumber is an absolute necessity in chairmaking! A chuckle? Please.
One lays out the legs (and other parts), nested fashion, and cuts them from the same wide board, obviously for grain and color match and other properties. Buying flitches assures that the entire set matches as closely as possible. I would not dream of foisting a set of chairs on a client scabbed together from a pile of narrow boards from God knows where.
Edited 6/1/2005 11:21 am ET by cstan
mookaroid,
Bless you, Sir. But you will achieve nothing with the True Believers and Luddites of this town. Those who will not see, will not see.
My two loves are photography and furniture making. Long ago I learned that the only thing most others will get to see of my work anymore, is the finished, beautiful product.
Needing to waste my time with those who extol "the old ways" as superior to new technology has become too painful to endure anymore. Especially when their arguments are based on the use of the old technology by artists who were pioneers in their field when alive, were using the most advanced methods available at the time, and would gladly have used anything more so.
Yes, we all use tools and methods and materials that date to centuries ago for the qualities that have remained desireable to this day. But we also use today's tools, methods and materials in a far greater proportion that increases constantly.
Rich
Edited 5/31/2005 5:40 pm ET by Rich14
Sire,
I salute you- a most eloquent and concise resume of the situation.
At one stage I was despondent,as the Philistines were thronging at the gate, but as of late their has been a depletion in their numbers, due to exhaustion I would assume:in fact one of their number may be counted as a "non aggressor", and I am engaged in sensible discourse with him, since I have established that he is not a Sassenach and I am fondly familiar with his tribal home town (and all his brothers). His nom de plume begins with the letter M.
The other, possibly the c.i.c , having suffered some reversals , is now in dialogue mode.I suspect he may be of Sassenach origins.
He has just this moment disclosed a lot of information about himself, thus making it easier for all us woodworms to lead a happy and productive co-existence -although some of us will be turning out a lot more creations with much less effort-yes, beautiful and even unique-but More.
This has been fun and hopefully has raised a chuckle or two,whilst raising other points of view.
Edited 6/1/2005 3:49 am ET by mookaroid
whilst I may over heat my thumbs on the scraper
ye ken... ye can get a plane t help wi that... #112 for instance... fine figure o a plane... ;)
just tryin t help...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Mike,
I don't have a #112 and it is as rare as rocking horse #### here, so I have had to fall back on the #90 when the going got tough-this has been robust enough to scrape sets of false teeth out of bar counter tops made out of Zambezi Redwood....
Will be expecting to see some pics of Sycamore toolcabinet when it is finished-be sure tae leave umple space fer the planes the noo.( I have forgotten my Aberdonian vernacular)
At one stage I almost suggested the use of a portable power plane to remove the bulk of the material,but thought it nae a guid thiny t say,eh?
Edited 6/1/2005 4:24 am ET by mookaroid
At one stage I almost suggested the use of a portable power plane to remove the bulk of the material,but thought it nae a guid thiny t say,eh?
Hey Min... this is a family site... ony mare o yon foul language an we'll be washin yer mooth oot wi a wire brush n Detol... ;P~~~ power plane indeed... HA.!!!!
Besides... I've a scrub plane; what would I want to slow down for..???
There's mare than plenty room in-ower the cabinet for all my bench planes, wi a wee bit left for expansion too; I still need to think of something for my woodies though.. 54 o them take up a fair bit o space...
Being serious... I've tried the power plane trick.. didn't like it. Having to stop every few seconds to clear blockages got to be a royal pain, the mess took hours to clean up and the dust wreaked havoc with SWMBO's asthema... there's been a wee bit o thought put inti ga'in handraulic ye ken..?? I'm nae as daft as I look... Ahem
About that rockin horse manure... just might be able t ge ye a hand there..
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&cat=1,310&p=48431
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=112
they both deliver...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Aye Laddae, aye, I have long been feasting my eyes upon those Clifton and L/n's. Got to make some shillings here first.
Have contented myself in the meantime with scouring 'antique and second hand 'shops-found the Stanley Rule and Level #27 transitional plane there,which I rebuilt-it works nicely enough for light stuff-was it to you that I posted some pics of planesin which it appears?
Another thought-have you seen how fast a guy skilled with an adze can work?
Tell me -how do you get the bloody computer to hi-light in blue or red?
What do you do to earn a living?
Cheerio O the noo.Edited 6/1/2005 6:32 am ET by mookaroid
Edited 6/1/2005 6:33 am ET by mookaroid
Got to make some shillings here first.
Och dinna gi me the hard deen by stories; fan ye can afford a' yon wood munchers and the electrickery t rin them, yer nae stuck for a bob or twa.. ;P~~~
Another thought-have you seen how fast a guy skilled with an adze can work?
Yupp... my bro-in-law is a boat builder amongst other things, he does a fine job of hewing a nice straight keel from an oak tree. Working with green oak is like cutting cheese apparently, KD'd to 9% is another matter altogether...
Tell me -how do you get the bloody computer to hi-light in blue or red?
easier done than said... right above the text window there's a drop down menu... says "colour" (note the correct spelling)... highlight the text you want to change, pick a colour from the menu and it's done... simple... well... unless yer a Normite ;P~
What do you do to earn a living?
I'm a wireman.. I do the impossible with the improbable for the ungrateful.. paid from the neck down, treated like I'm dead from the neck up; grouse beater and haggis basher (retired)...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Edited 6/1/2005 7:12 am ET by Mike
Mike,
Text window? where is this? I must have a different version or else Taunton has given me only half the deal??/
Have to go to the coal face now to do some work.
ummmmmm.... the window you type into when typing a post...????Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Mook, what browser are you using? Prospero (the folks that wrote and maintain the software for Taunton's site) are set up to use IE.If you're using Firefox as I am, you have to write in the html codes, then check the box at the bottom for html tags within the message.Leon Jester
Hi Leon,
Thanks for that-I am indeed using ffox. But I don't understand your instruction about html codes- not a thing-please put it in words of two syllables or less: I am still driving this thing with learner plates and probably will for the rest of my life!
OK, Mook: Bear in mind that I'm at about the kindergarten level with html.To make a section boldface: use <b> to start -- all following that code will be bold. To end the boldface, use </b>.The above also for italics, use a lower case i instead of b.Underscore, use <u> and </u>.Font colour change: use <font color = red> (or blue, or green, etc.) to make text matter red, use </font color> to stop. Note that it must be spelt in the American useage, not British.Make sure you preview your message to see if the commands are ok.To do this, scroll down on the page, there's a bar with POST, PREVIEW, SPELL CHECK, ATTACH FILES and CANCEL below. Just below the bar is a box that says: "Check here if HTML is used in the message" Tick this box.When using html commands in a message, you must end paragraphs with code, e.g., use <br> at the end of a paragraph, use two (i.e., <br>br>) if you wish to double space between paragraphs. Otherwise the text will be run together without paragraph breaks. To increase font size, use <font size = 4> or <font size = 5> to start, use </font size> to return to the default size.Alternatively, bite the bullet and use IE, there is a bar at the top of the text box that allows you to use bold, italic, etc. by clicking on it, as you would with a word processing programme such as Word or WordPerfect.Good luck,Leon Jester
British is sort of English!
British is sort of English!
Hoi.!! in my neck o the woods.... them's fightin words.. ;P~~~Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
LOL!
And down on the Bay, where I spent a large part of growing up, <i>there's a moose aboot the hoose</i>.:)Leon Jester
Mook: This is what the previous message I posted looks like if you use html:
OK, Mook: Bear in mind that I'm at about the kindergarten level with html.
To make a section boldface: use to start -- all following that code will be bold. To end the boldface, use .
The above also for italics, use a lower case i instead of b.
Underscore, use and .
Font colour change: use (or blue, or green, etc.) to make text matter red, use to stop.
Note that it must be spelt in the American useage, not British.
<!---->
To do this, scroll down on the page, there's a bar with POST, PREVIEW, SPELL CHECK, ATTACH FILES and CANCEL below. Just below the bar is a box that says: "Check here if HTML is used in the message" Tick this box.
When using html commands in a message, you must end paragraphs with code, e.g., use
at the end of a paragraph, use two (i.e.,
) if you wish to double space between paragraphs. Otherwise the text will be run together without paragraph breaks.
To increase font size, use or to start, use to return to the default size.
Alternatively, bite the bullet and use IE, there is a bar at the top of the text box that allows you to use bold, italic, etc. by clicking on it, as you would with a word processing programme such as Word or WordPerfect.
Good luck,
Leon Jester
Leon,
Thanks for taking the time to send all that info- I will study it and justify your time spent.
If you are at the kindergarten level then I must be pre the dawn of history....
Re InXpress- am now nervous of this as it has caused me untold grief when I first started with computers-things like 2#5$up my internet banking etc. and ffox so far is good .
But a board room table 5ft wide is something else-
mookaroid... (a.k.a. the man with no name) ;P~
I don't have the issue to hand, but there was a recent article in FWW demonstrating how its possible to work truely massive slabs using hand tool techniques (the author was cheatin... used a hand held power plane but that's besides the point).
The author specialises in making tables from these huge, joint free slabs; I donno how wide they were but it didn't look far off 5 ft to me. Straight edges, winding sticks and a plane...
where there's a will...... ken fit I mean...???Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Wide boards.. I think I posted some pictures from China.. Ya talk about wide AND THICH!
aye Laddie .. My friend would say THAT to me when he had a few Honey made Beers!
MIKE! Sycamore boards.. I use them sometimes...
I Like Ash and Hickory best.. I get some Sycamore boards and the guy asks what I do with them?... He said they been there fer years! LOL... I like that wood ALOT!
I don't have that much experience with it Will, but I love working with it. It planes real nice; beautiful grain and texture to it. For me the most impressive aspect is the board width; by far the widest I've seen locally available.Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
old china,
I was there this year with my daughter... To get my NEW Grandbaby.. She is a beauty..
I saw some doors.. Solid wood I 'guess' ( forgot to bring my tape...) 20 foot high and about 6 feet wide EACH.. I asked when the place was built.. I was told it was rebuilt about 200 years ago.. and they used the original doors! With bronze fasteners..
All double tongue M&T.. (EDIT: Through tenons).. Straight as could be.. I asked them if I could close then to look... Cost me a $5.00 USA to bribe the guard.. LOL..
Hardly ANY bow in them.. The hinges were something!
Amazing.. I asked how old those doors were.. The girl said she did not know but surelly before Our time... LOL
Edited 6/2/2005 12:42 pm ET by Will George
Will,
Seems that the Chinese are on the rise-here there is hardly a thing not now made in China.
It is possible that the door is made from Teak-did you photograph it?
What with a guard there it is also possible that the house belongs to a member of the Mafia equivalent(I forget the correct terminology) .
Coincidentally I have just given a 'makeover" to a butler tray table that was made in Hong Kong specifically for it's owner about 40 years ago. I also make these. Thought you might like to see them- the Chinese one is the oval one.The concept is an English thing-the idea being that the butler carries the whole bang shoot around to the guest in one shot , if you get my meaning. It is notable that my version is much lighter than the other, making it easy for the ladies to lug around. I have inlaid Imbuia ply onto Iroko framework.The Chinese is made from PNG Rosewood-which is actually Pterocarpus Indicus-lovely timber:and the very same tree grows in southern Africa-Pterocarpus Angolensis-very similar.Comments from the gallery?
Edited 6/3/2005 2:15 am ET by mookaroid
Yes I did.. But so dark I'm not sure if you can see anything... I Have to look for it.. I will later if I can find it.. I think I posted on here awhile back...
Them China folks are amazing!
What with a guard there.. EVERYWHERE in china..
I found the folks in China VERY NICE... They were something... Not like my neighbors AT ALL!
Reply I did and posted it in here.. I forgot under what.. Look under China or.. something.. I forgot what I used.. I'll look fer the Pictures..
if you get my meaning. It is notable that my version is much lighter than the other, making it easy for the ladies to lug around..
Geeeee I sawa old china woman look about 100 on a bike with what looked like at least a two cord of wood on the back of it!
I agree Mike!
My best hand tool is that screw thing ya use to get a cork out of a wine bottle!
Briefly there are some simple requirements for getting the right results for the least pain:-
I married a woman that knew I was a NUT!
I was not jokin'.. I doubled up some of the rafters in my shop and do it sometimes...
Jack/2X4.. And away ya go!
NORM is OK!.. I like him but I'm strange too!
The original question aside, this is great entertainment!
Thanks for the chuckle,
pk
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