I’ve got 4-foot lengths of 12/4 rough cherry at 11-inches wide. It won’t fit on my 8-inch jointer. I need to get 3 x 3-1/8″ slices out of the board.
My first thought was to put the cherry on my sliding-table of my slider and do a straight-line rip. It seemed like it’d be much faster to do this than to bandsaw the piece to size. However, my friend who owns a big Martin slider says that it’s dicey at best to do this because of potential binding on the blade or riving knife. He said to stay with the bandsaw.
I’m going to take his advice and cut it on the bandsaw, but was wondering if anyone else does straight-line rips on the table saw with thick rough stock? And what are their experiences?
Replies
Jointer,
I regularly rip heavy stock on my tablesaw. Roughsawn, I usually rip 1/4"-3/8" oversize. As heavy as 12/4 or thicker stock can be, it helps to reduce it to near the final dimensions before beginning surfacing.
As with any operation on power tools, it helps to be awake to what is going on, and aware of consequences of actions taken.
Ray
For wot it's worth, I've cut 12/4 on a band saw, about your desired length and width. These were for bed legs. I cut both solid 12/4 and a laminated 12/4 leg made with 8 and 4 quarter.
The cuts closed down and tried their best to pinch, the band saw turned out to be right for this situation. I won't say the table saw would have been wrong or dangerous; I think the band saw was a sensible solution.
Cheers,
Seth
I rip on both saws, depending on my mood. Most things up to 3 meters long I do on the slider because it's fast and straight, and that's the length of its travel. Here's a trick that I use for problematic stock that I know is going to give me grief:
Set the blade height a little less than half the thickness of the stock, and rip it on the slider from both top and bottom. This will leave the piece attached only by a small cross-section in the middle of the stock, and you won't get any binding during the cut. You can then zip it through the bandsaw to separate the parts. The saw will naturally follow the kerfs, and the rough bit is easy to plane smooth.
It sounds like a lot of work but it's actually quite fast.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?lang=e&id=1
Ring,Ooh! I like the table saw + band saw technique! I think I'll give it a try on at least one of the pieces to see how it turn out. My bandsaw is small, I think it only has a 1hp motor, whereas my table saw has a 5HP motor.
My band saw has two HP and cuts eight inches easy, doesn't even bog down or motor get hot, Baldor brand motor so pretty strong motor. Shouldn't bother your bandsaw if it is healthy/set up nice.I suppose with a heavy chunk of wood it is easier to get it on the low table of a table saw but the table saw needs more horse power because the blade is wider and easily squeezed from binding.All,
The bandsaw is the clear choice to me. What are the advantages of using the table saw ?rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 12/1/2009 7:50 pm by roc
Roc,You've got a 2HP Baldor motor, that's a lot more power than my 1HP Rikon bandsaw! I would totally just do it on the bandsaw if I didn't have a sliding table saw that's begging to be used. But that said, I prefer to be on the safer side. Binding on the blade or riving knife is pretty lame and scary.
>that's a lot more power than my 1HP Rikon bandsaw<Think man . . . what you were looking at in my pic is more than twice the thickness of your work in question. If anything twice the thickness requires even more than twice the horse power because of dampness in the wood, blade flutter, the wood not closing up so much as twisting a bit, saw dust balling up in the kerf.So for less than half the thickness half the horse power should be plenty. I think some one said here at least once that they have a half horse band saw and it works for about every thing except the wide resawing and even then if they take it slow.Of coarse the thing to do is make a test cut or two. Good practice anyway before subjecting your prize pieces of wood to the blade. You may be out of square or drift or what not.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 12/2/2009 12:58 am by roc
roc,Good point! I was just thinking that it'd be slow on my band saw and maybe... it's time for a new one? ;). I'm really trying to learn that the key to a good wood working project is about efficiency not speed.Hopefully I'll get to mark up the wood and try several of the techniques soon. I'll post how things go.
"Good point! I was just thinking that it'd be slow on my band saw and maybe... it's time for a new one? ;). I'm really trying to learn that the key to a good wood working project is about efficiency not speed."It can be slow and you will feel variations in the density of the wood as you are feeding it which will cause variations in your feed rate, and because the table is small any roughness can affect your feed. As with a table saw, having 2 smooth surfaces (fence & table contact) is ideal.
Make sure your saw is well tuned -https://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuidePDF.aspx?id=24093,
make lots of test cuts, 'cause if it starts to wander due to improper tracking or a dull blade, you are not going to hold it straight.
You should be able to take at minimum, 1/16" slices off of a 2x4 consistently.
If you haven't used your bandsaw a lot it might take you sometime to get into it to make sure everything is right. Don't assume that the factory installed the upper and lower guides properly aligned. Be prepared to take the table off and thoroughly inspect the guide assemblies. Make sure the bearings turn, the tires are good. These items are not the highest quality. I just replaced 4 of 6 bearings and my tires after 5 years of very occasional use and 2 years of moderate use. The old tires were like a wrapping of inner tube rubber compared to the new urethane tires.Don
I slice 6" + regularly on my King 14" 1HP saw. To optimize floor space, I recently put my table saw into cold storage and am trying to live without it. It is certainly a different cutting experience using the bandsaw all of time.
I pulled out the blade insert to improve dust collection - no tear out. The cut is a bit rough but that is why I have a jointer.
The biggest downside for me is the table is way to high on this saw. I am working on an adjustable base so I can match the tool to the job.Make you choice the safest based on your ability and equipment.Don
Hmmm... I haven't tried it yet, but it seems that if I flip the board end on end, it could be tough to get the blade to line up with the kerf on the other side with rough lumber? Or is it?
It probably depends on how rough the wood is but wouldn't you first joint the edge that rides against the fence?FWIIW the works carpenter, when cutting wood for pallets, uses this technique and aims to produce 600 slats from 300 boards in one day. That's 300 rips and 300 crosscuts.
David.. I agree.
I tend to pick wood with wild grain. Sorry, I just like the way it looks.
You suggestion works well even on thinner sizes. If I 'know' (think?# that this 'stick' will give me grief, I cut like you suggested at about 1/3 of the total depth on each edge. I will let it sit 'as is' for a few days if possible. If I use the table saw, I set the blade height just a tad above what is needed to finish the cut. Leaving it sit awhile, I 'think' it allows the wood to 'condition' itself a bit, and less prone to go wild on me as I finish the final cut.
Very hard to forsee the outcome of a cut to be made but if the grooves tended to close up on either side, I went to the handsaw #or my Japanese pull saw# to finish the cut. If not, I finish off on the TS. If a hand saw was used, I planed off the not wanted.
From the woods I mostly use, most reaction wood I find is when ripping Jatoba. My hord of Panga-Panga I got for making my beds #At a 'steal price# was mostly very good to work BUT some reaction wood. I could not tell where I would find reaction wood unless the grain was straight and then went into wild curved grain. I was working with long 'sticks' so not many options to cut and still end up with beds to make!
Many parts were 96 inches long so not alot of wood to throw away!
One poster told about using a wedge the flew away.
I use some "T" type blocks with a plywood 'spacer' made a 'bit' wider than my blade to place into the top of the gap' . I used my drum sander to finish off the thickness imperfections.
I've done several rips to full blade height with 8' long wine vat staves. Not a real problem with the right blade and a stout fence. It's best if you can start with a flat face and a flat edge against the fence, but that's not always possible.
Your friend is right - do the ripping on the bandsaw. It is easier and much, much safer. I would never consider ripping thick, rough, unflattened stock on a table saw fed by hand - it's just too easy for it to rock around and bind or pinch - with the potential for kickback. Granted, some sort of carry board or sliding table might hold the stock stable enough to get it through the saw, but it's been my experience that timber over 8/4 thick is often full of drying stresses and will start to "move" before you can even finish the cut. Unless you have some sort of "saw mill carriage" or a stock feeder, I wouldn't try it - especially not, if I had a nice bandsaw available.
Don't worry about your bandsaw being under-powered; I have a 70's vintage, Rockwell Delta 14 inch bandsaw with only a 1/2 hp motor on it and I can rip 12/4 stock like a breeze. I used to routinely resaw 6 inch wide hardwoods on it without any real problem. If you have a 1 hp motor on your Rikon, you shouldn't have any difficulty at all,...providing you have a suitable blade and that it is sharp. All bets are off, if the blade isn't right.
If you like, you can joint one edge of your 12/4 boards so that you will have a true reference edge to place against the bandsaw fence. Or if you don't plan to use a fence ( possibly easier,) you can use the jointed edge to measure from when laying out your cuts. You can lay out your cut lines with a straight edge or you can snap a chalk line on the boards. I would cut the pieces plenty oversize so as to allow for jointing or planing afterwards.
Regards, JW
I just finished ripping a similar board of Cherry last week. I ran one edge through the jointer for a straight face, and then ripped on the Table saw to make 2 1/2" legs. I drop those cheap plastic Putty knives behind the splitter on a 1.5 hp table saw. Seems to prevent binding and won't damage the blade. I think having long arms helps a bit though...
AZMO
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Several years back, I placed wood shims into the kerf behind the blade (no blade guard, no splitter, no riving knife) in order to keep the wood from binding and kicking back. One of the shims tipped over and fell into the blade and disappeared somewhere in my garage. I started using my splitter again after that!I've got enough pieces to cut that I may just try out several different techniques to get an idea of what works and how well they work. I'll back off of anything that seems tenuous. You what they say, "the rest of us have to pee on the electric fence to learn."
Zaaappppp goes the fence. Ziiiinnnnnng goes the wedge. LMAO!!
Anyway, Notice I said BEHIND the splitter.... Sounds like our encounters with "Darwin in motion" has been adequate.
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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I needed to make about a dozen rip cuts, 7' long, in 8/4 to 10/4 rough, hard maple for a workbench top. Since the lumber had minor to moderate warping and cupping, I made 3/4" MDF sled about 8" wide x my lumber length, to use on my Delta 14" bandsaw equipped with a 1/2" "Woodslicer" blade. I 'trapped' the sled between the fence and a board clamped to the outer side of the table with a couple of scraps of UHMW as spacers. A pair of rollers was set at both the infeed and outfeed side for the sled to ride on. To hold the lumber in place for the cut I drilled a hole in each end of the sled and used a pair of the Rockler fence clamps to secure the wood to the sled - using wedges where needed for the warps and cups.
A lot of trouble? Maybe - but it worked exceptionally well, producing uniform, dead straight cuts, and no burn marks. It also cur about as quick as I could have fed it on a table saw. Besides - a 79-year old, working solo, needs all the help he can get.
Jointerman
I regularly cut up roughsawn timber on my sawbench. I am fortunate to own a Minimax sliding table saw with a 12" blade which helps. I clamp the timber to the sliding table and when I have two clean sawn sides, I just transfer to the regular fence. Riving knife is essential.
The height of the bandsaw bench and trying to organize in feed and out feed tables, not to mention blade changes to a decent ripsaw blade and back again are a big pain. Basically I think the entire process is a little unsafe as you don't have total control.
A bonus with the sawbench (complements of a good ripsaw blade) is that often the sawcut finish is straight and smooth enough to glue up without going through the jointer. A sawn surface makes for a better glue join than a planed surface.
wot
wot,I finally made it into the shop this afternoon and jigsawed the piece to a workable length. I was going to try several different techniques listed here including a straight-line rip on my slider. Alas, I realized that my 10-inch blade only gives me a blade height of about 3-1/8". Not enough to cut thru this slightly generous 12/4 with a slight warp.My latest thing is to perhaps try cutting if with my FT jigsaw with with the track!
Well, looks like the bandsaw was the easiest route to go. I'm sure that we wouldn't have fussed over all of this if I was able to get in the shop earlier in the week and chop it up. All I can say is that the jig saw on a rail was definitely NOT the way to go. Slow and not that smooth. Here are some pictures just for fun:
Jointerman,
Was that a 14" Rikon Deluxe band saw had have there? I just git a glimps of it, Thats what I have. How do you like it?
Taigert
T-I have the original 14-inch Rikon bandsaw. Not nearly as nice as the deluxe. That wasn't available when I bought mine. I'd buy Rikon again! Possibly the 16 or 18 inch.I have to say, I like it okay. I can't explain it but the sound of the machine isn't a smooth roll, but more of a whomp whomp. It's likely that one of the wheels isn't quite aligned with the other. When I did my initial set up years ago, I wasn't sure what I was doing and likely set it wrong.So, that said, it still tracks nicely when cutting. The ball bearing guides are what probably keeps it working well. I have adjusted the fence for drift and it works great. I think that when I switched to Carter blades, that was a big improvement over the Timberwolf blades.
I have a 1982 14 inch Jet I have used it to slit soles on shoes, cut casts, soapstone etc. I replaced the tires once. The top truntions once as by BIL would grab the table to move the saw.
It is no gem but a good blade with a good weld is imperative. I often file the weld a hair on the back side and it makes a huge differance.
I can get good cuts if I take my time. Speed vs efficiancy are two different birds. the cut on a table saw may seem fast. But if you look at the total time to get a board ripped and jointed. The speed of the TS may seem faster but that is only one operation of many to get the board you want.
Bandsaws are underrated for ripping wacky wood, you have more control no kickback, and more time to react with the wood than worrying about burn marks, pinching etc.I have always thought of shortning the factory stand.I have used my Miliwalkie circular saw and a metal straight edge.
That womp womp could be a weld. Roll it through the guides and see if there is contact or any roughness. If you find any, sand it out.Don
JM,
Another little update on some of my recent learnings.
I have had my 14" King bandsaw since 2002. Other than the table height, it has done well. I don't do any details work on ti so haven;t used bands less than 1/2". Last year I picked up a bunch of 10-11" teak and paduak. Always being up for a challenge, I installed the riser kit so I could resaw to 12"
I purchased some 3/4" x 3TPI X 105" bands from Vendor A. The first actually reciprocated as it cut which made for some interesting challenges. I thought the saw was wonky, and removed the band and installed a 1/2" 3TPI to finish my work. The 1/2" worked well but I continued to notice a very tiny bit of this back & forth cutting action.
At the recent trade show I had a long chat with a new band vendors. Home I went, tore that saw apart and basically validated every component and its alignment. My tires were shot 4 of 6 bearings in the guide assemblies were seized. The wheels were co planar and the wheel bearings seemed OK, the wheels turned true.
New bearings, new urethane tires. Put on a new 5/8" 3TPI band from Vendor B. Saw cut beautifully,
Installed 3/4" bands from vendor A. Back to the reciprocating cut. Opened and installed band 2 from vendor A. Same reciprocating cutting action. I still have band 3 in the package to test.
Took bands to local repair company. Verified that the weld was off. Repaired weld.
Brought home and installed. This band performed perfectly. I cut a strip of veneer that is less than 1/16" thick off of a 3 X 18" piece of red oak.
So a new shop rule for me is to lay any new band out on the bench and verify that the weld is straight before installing. Actually, one should o this the day after the band is purchased as you might not use the band for some time.
Don
I once had a similar experience many years ago. The first bandsaw I ever had was a wooden one that I built from a parts kit from Gilliom Manufacturing. The first several blades I used on it worked fine, but eventually I started getting that blade oscillation you described. I didn't know much of anything about bandsaws, so I ascribed the problem to the machine itself. I wracked my brain trying to figure out what was causing it, but never realized it was a misalligned weld in the blade until long after I had sold the saw for peanuts. A number of years later I worked in a shop where I used a bandsaw all day long and made up my own blades; I happened to install a poorly welded one and noticed the same oscillation problem when the weld cracked half way through. I could have kicked myself for having gotten rid of my old saw.
Regards, JW
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