Does anyone out there use Plastic Resin Glue (plastic powdered urea resin)? I recieved the Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking box set for Christmas with DVD and on the DVD Tage uses this glue. On paper it sounds good with long open times for assembly. Good attributes. I’ve not seen or read much about it though and to my surprise it seems to be difficult to find in woodworking stores. I’ve found it, but it took some searching. Anyway, I’d be interested to hear anyone’s opinion on this adhesive.
Thanks,
Jeff
Replies
I use it when I want a longer open time for larger glue ups like an interior door. It doesn't have the tendency of yellow glue to start setting when your pushing a tight joint together. It stays wet after it has bottomed and leaves time to square things up.
The need to mix before using and the Urea in it's make-up is probably why it's not so popular.
I have used it a lot recently. It iks good for certain things I think. I works really we for bent laminations because it has a really thin and not so visable glue line. I also use it for veneer, but I am starting to lose faith in it. It doesn't seem to hold very well along the edges of my veneers. But this could be and probubly is somthing that I am doing wrong. It's also known as urea formeldahyde glue. So look for iit under that. The main fault of the glue is the shear strength. It's not good for edge glueing and joint glueing, because it is a very brittle glue and breaks very easily, ( Ask me how I know that ) But that's for a different theard later. Good luck.
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There are several names for plastic resin glue, Scotch glue, brown glue, urea formaldehyde. It was the common glue in woodworking shops for years until alternative choices came along. It is still used widely but the urea formaldehyde is a suspected carcinogen and a substance that can off gas. It used to be in many things from carpets to plywood. The manufacturing industry has tried to eliminate this substance from it's products where possible.
Scotch glue is often used when doing work like bent laminations, hot and cold veneer pressing, butcher blocks and with radio frequency glue setting equipment. It works well in ordinary applications also. The product should be fresh and thoroughly mixed. You should wear a respirator when mixing. The extended open time also means extended clamping time. The glue line is rigid and moderately water resistant.
Often, you have to put advice from woodworking texts in their perspective of time. The world of woodworking has changed a lot since Frid's day. The cost, extended clamp time, limited shelf life and limited mixed time makes other products more attractive for ordinary applications. Closed grain species may not bond well. I think I remember notable failures in aircraft with birch. I've also seen failure in old plywood, which I think is either due to age or the rigid glue being effected by wood movement. That's just a guess. PR is something you should have in your arsenal but I won't be throwing out the Titebond anytime soon.
hammer1, somehow I get the impression that you're mixing up your glues. Urea formaldehyde glues are not the same as animal glues, aka Scotch glue, or hide glue.
The latter, animal glues, have been around for many centuries-- millenia even perhaps, and are the boiled up gelatinous material of animal parts, whereas urea formaldehyde is a more modern product of the chemicals industry.
Urea formaldehyde glues are sometimes called such things as plastic resin (or cascamite here in the UK.) One well known brand name in the US is Weldwood. Here in the UK, Humbrol Extramite is a common name.
Anyway, I'm not trying to jump on your case and embarras you in any way, and I also don't have the time to get into some serious stuff about glues and their formulation and properties, but I did feel I ought to mention that I'd spotted you seemed to be going off on some sort of odd tangent. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Not at all, Richard, I'm talking about the brown powder you mix with water. Dap/ Weldwood is a common brand in the US. We always called it Scotch glue in the shops I worked in but that may have been a colloquial name. It could be because it was made by 3M/Scotch brand. This glue contains urea formaldehyde. We used it quite a lot for laminations and particularly for RF setting. I'm not confusing animal hide glue with plastic resin but the name I used may have confused you.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
That's very interesting hammer. I've never heard of any form of UF glue called Scotch glue before. I suppose the Scotch brand name did it, and perhaps because if its colour, which is slightly similar to the Scotch glue I know of..
The only Scotch glue that I've come across (before you explained your usage of the word) is what we in the UK have known as Scotch glue for perhaps the last 150- 200 years, which is an animal derived glue. Russian glue falls into this category too. And, of course, there's hide glue itself.
The reason for the different names here for this form of glue was traditionally that hide glue was reckoned to be good for most work and came from land animals-- cattle, pigs and sheep for example, and both Scotch and Russian glues were the strongest, but both these types are fish glues.
George Ellis, for example, described the differences in Modern Practical Joinery, published in the early 1900's and still available.
I shall have to add your definition of 'Scotch glue' to my list of confusing Americanism's, ha, ha. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 1/27/2007 3:05 pm by SgianDubh
Yes, I was wandering just how to not confuse this glue matter any more-so I guess "I shall have to add your definition of 'Scotch glue' to my list of confusing Americanism's".
Undoubtedly the stinking one will not cause cancer or gas off surreptiously and is called Scotch glue-to the best of my knowledge.Philip Marcou
I hope you have plenty of blank pages in your book of slang, Richard. Many of us learn names in the workplace that others, "from away" would never recognize. You Brits have plenty of your own that we don't understand. Likely, the majority of colloquial expressions for both of us are not suitable for printing in a family forum.Thanks for the clarification on Scotch glue. There have been a few times that I have asked for a product and had a blank stare from the clerk. I'll warm up a pair of schooners for you, next time you're around.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
This time of year I don't use it because I can't always be sure my shop will be a 65 degrees or warmer. It doesn't set up well or very strong at lower temps. It can leave a very visible glue line, depending on the wood you are using. All that said, yes, I do use it. I don't mix any more than I am willing to throw away after a couple of hours and I wear gloves like when using epoxy.
I have used it quite a bit for veneering and for bent lamination. The temperature issue is a big one for me, because my basement shop is always about 65 degrees F. So, I used a home made styrofoam box with an electric space heater to warm the air to about 95 degrees F. I throw the extra mixed glue into the enclosure to tell me when it is set. I get the glue to set in about two hours in this manner, versus about ten hours at 65 degrees F.
Today I use gorrila glue for bent lamination and cold set PVA from Joe Woodworker for veneering. These don't require elevated temperature for reasonable cure times and produce good results.
Good luck, Tom.
Great information and response. Thanks so much to all for your time. I've seen the adhesives at Joe Woodworker. I live in the NW and my shop is currently unheated so the temperature requirements is an issue. I'll look at JWW products closer as that may be the best option. My interest in the PPR glue is due to the fact that most of todays adhesives don't have much open time. I'm currently working on a project that requires a complex assembly and none of my glues would give me the time I need to get everything assembled and clamped. To compensate I've decided to do the glue up in stages. Problem with gluing in stages is it introduces the possibility of misalignment. If I could do the glue up all at once I could be sure of proper alignment of all the components. Well, I guess it's like I tell my kids when they get frustrated with complexity. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it!!
Jeff100
I regularly use it when gluing up solid wood and also for veneering. I have never had an issue with it. It is important to let it sit a bit after the initial mixing. I mix it to the consistency of a light cream, let it sit and then give it a little mix before applying the glue (to both faces being joined). I suspect that those who have had glue failure did not use sufficient glue. It will set up rigid and hard and does not creep. I use the product that is produced by Weldwood, and yes, it does have a bit of a urea smell to it when dry. JL
My opinion. The resin glue is a great glue for most things if it's mixed properly. Before you buy any, call DAP and ask them to decipher the batch code for you because it has a shelf life of approx. 1 year.
Because it's a slow mover at the retail level, it may have been on the shelf for a long time before you get it.
You should like working with it though. In the door business, it's one of the few glues that is approved for use in re-stiling and re-railing fire rated doors because of it's high temperature threshold.
"Roger Staubach for President"
Thanks doorboy. A custom front door is my next project and one of the complex glue ups that I was referring to. Didn't know about the fire rating, excellent call, it's important. I finally found the DAP PPR glue product at one of our local REAL hardware stores e.g. NOT a big box store. I can never figure out how those big box stores can be so big and never have what I need...but I digress. Anyway I didn't buy any of the DAP glue because the containers looked like they'd been on the shelf a LONG time. What's a feller to do? Internet? Maybe the Joe Wood Worker products is the best way to go, I've got to give him a call and find out if he guarentee's the freshness of the product....Roger Staubach for Pres? Another good call!!Jeff
Edited 1/26/2007 4:11 pm by jeff100
I usually buy mine at the local Wilsonart distributor, but a REAL lumber yard should have what you need, or better yet, order it for you. I go for the smallest size I can get because a little goes a long way."Roger Staubach for President"
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