Came across a couple of disturbing posts tonight indicating Steel City Tools might be in trouble!
First one was on Sawmill Creek http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=113423 and the second one was on Lumber Jocks http://lumberjocks.com/topics/8412.
I have a vested interest since in addition to 22124, I have their 8″ industrial jointer and the 17″ drill press.
Sarge, have you heard anything? I have the 8″ variable speed grinder on order for the past 3 months now!
Lyle
Replies
I ordered the Steel City 1 1/2 HP dust collector from Woodcraft. and it was on order for several months. Woodcraft was given several ship dates but none of them turned out to be right and Woodcraft could not get any info.
I finally gave up and bought the Jet when it was on sale.
I don't know if they are in trouble but if they treat customers like that, they will be.
Domer
I haven't heard from my inside contacts in about three weeks or so. I do know they were re-organizing and moving the operation from Murfreesboro to the California hub. Packing up and shipping that kind of inventory and parts isn't an over-night job I can tell you but to be frank at this point I'm not sure what's really happening on the inside.
I saw the rumors today at the Creek and your other link. I did send an e-mail late this afternoon to one of my inside contacts so... you know as much as I do at this point about the rumor. If I get any info back I will post it but I can tell you they were busy making preparations for the move several weeks ago. But....
I also have the 8" joiner.. 18" BS .. TS and if I can find a used SC DP I am going to pick it up. At this point all my machines with the exception of the TS are well over 2 years old which is longer than most warranty anyway and I haven't had any problem nor expect to. GM.. Chrysler.. AIG went down for the count so a new to the block, smaller company like SC is just as subject to economic problems at the moment as IMO.. all the WW tool companies are not exactly riding on a silver lined cloud.
Just a wait and see situation I suppose....
Sarge..
Thanks for getting back Sarge!
I have no problems with what I have; just worried about the tools I wanted to get :)
They are injecting fresh ideas into existing products so I hope they can ride it out. I am keeping my fingers crossed and supporting them by keeping my backorders open.
Lyle
The tool company I worked for filed Chapter 11 a few weeks ago. It's horrible out there right now. Most companies are fighting for survival.
Edited 6/4/2009 10:36 am ET by mvflaim
Steel City is in transition at the moment moving their base of operation from Murfreesboro to their California hub. Machines had to be prepped to move.. loaded on tractor trailers and travel across country to reach their destination which is not an over-night deal. Add the fact that some employee's may not have chose to make the move and you increase transition time drastically unloading and organizing on that end.
Folks.. the economy is poor.... very poor and that means people are holding onto their money in quite un-certain times. I can assure you that affects Steel City and every other tool manufacturer that has been around a lot longer them SC. Add the fact that there are more used machines out there right now that are great deals so why purchase new?
I live in a county with over 1 million people. Foreclosures by law in Georgia have to be printed in the newspaper. Every Thursday a listing of new foreclosures appears in print. Today there were 78 pages of fine print foreclosures on homes and I can assure you local businesses aren't jumping with joy over their fate as times are hard. I have seen a number of local cabinet shops go down and the machinery sold off at $.25 -$.30 on the dollar in some cases. That hurts tool makers even more.
So.. I would dismiss all the little rumors. Most are started by speculation without facts unless facts surface. Some may be started by competitors as the economy is threatening Every company and some are desperate indeed. If this economy stays as slow as it has been.. there will be more closing overall IMO. I personally don't think we have seen the worse of it yet as GM.. Chrysler.. AIG are just the tip of the iceberg. If those companies have gone down the tube... do you think the smaller companies are immune under the circumstances?
I don't as I live in the world of reality and I am seeing some very sad situations daily just on a local level with both business and employees who have lost everything they had due to having no income at this point. I was looking for a part time job for spending money and applied to the Gwinnett Braves up the street which is the AAA team of the Atlanta Braves that was in Richmond, VA. I just wanted a seasonal job (April - Sept# for several days a week and I felt this was ideal as that is what an usher job constitutes.
I was not even considered at 61 years old as they filled all the $10 and under jobs with young college graduates who could not find a job or was recently laid off and willing to work 20 hours a week for $9-$10. Does that tell you anything? If not.. it should. :>#
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/4/2009 12:04 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/4/2009 12:06 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Very well said Sarge,
All should remember crap runs downstream.
First it was the large financial institutions, next came the car industry. Who's next? Well, we can already see the number of car dealerships and suppliers to the car industry. These are people in our hometowns. Behind the car salesman or the guy furloughed at the local bank branch are wives and kids.
We have this large wave of a recession becoming very local and the sad part of it is that the majority of it is out of our control.
Have compassion for your neighbor and don't speak ill or speculate because any of us can be next.
T.Z.
Well said Sarge, but I find one thing you said interesting. Did you say they were moving TO California? I though most people were heading out due to the costs of doing business there and taxes and the near bankrupt status? Hope they got a good package for going. I hope they make it. We need all the choice we can in tools. We wont have that for long in cars, but I'm hopefull in tools. While I don't have any SC stuff, I have been impressed at how well its made. Have a good one. The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Renaldus Magnus
Steel City opened a hub in California last year to avoid machines at port of entry moving across the U. S.. then having to be shipped back across to west coast and western dealers. That was when the price of truck freight sky-rocketed and the price of getting a Conex container from across the pond almost doubled. Fuel prices the cause in that case.
So.. the California hub was already established.. a matter of getting all inventory and parts (technical was in TN along with spare parts) to CA... unloaded and organized. Why they chose CA. is beyond me? I am not privy to inside financial matters or the reason they choose to do what they do. It is none of my business personally as I am not an employee.. owner.. or have no stake in the company that constitutes me having a need to know. Simply a company friend and personal friend of one of the owners and his family per se. I only comment on what I have been told under those circumstances.
I hope this economy gets moving as I see the results every day here locally. The building trade here hit the rocks first and then many other businesses became victims. I expect it to get worse and I do believe that each and every one of us will have to make some radical changes in the way we think as I personally don't feel we will ever see things the way they were. That might even be good in the long haul but it is like a piercing knife in the chest in the short haul.
Back to shop for me guys... this thinking crap wears me out so I will go do what I can almost do on auto pilot at this point and that's nail furniture together with bent 16 penny nails. The old fashioned way I tell you. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
"Why they chose CA. is beyond me." Me too! They should have chosen Seattle, WA, as a port!!!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Los Angles or just outside no less... what a perfect place to raise a family. :>)
Sarge..
Not a great place to draw breath, either. I know from experience!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Talking about smog? We've got pretty clean air here in the South Coast Basin since they drove all manufacturing industries out with VOC regulations.Now we breathe clean air as we drive past shuttered factory buildings.BruceT
hey bruce,
back in the 60's i grew accustomed to painful deep breathing whenever playing vigorously outdoors. it was common for i and my friends to take a "smog break" by doing nothing for the better part of an hour until we could take a deep breath without coughing. the air has improved over the last few decades, in your county and mine.
eef
"nail furniture together with bent 16 penny nails."
I just don't know how some of you guys do it. And when the nails are all in and set, I bet the nails are straightened out. I start out with straight 16 penny nails and when I finally get them in they are the shape of a cork screw!
Though different segments vary at different times, I have been somewhat encouraged as our stock after having lost about a third of its originally value has risen considerably the last couple months. I hope it continues.
Haven't checked this thread in a while, and I find out house of tools is closed.
That just blows. Now there is no real ww store for 400 miles. HD don't really count.
They were the General Tool dealer and the go to for abrasives and router bits.I hope some one will open in there place, as I don't really like buying off the net.
LV is going to get more business.
For the record getting anything from the states up here is costly. I ordered a diamond cup wheel that was 139.00 USD after shipping and customs clearance it was over 250. canuck bucks. Free trade my ars
Sarge," nail furniture together with bent 16 penny nails."And you said you didn't know anything about "Mexican Rustic"!
My daughter still wants me to build some of it for her so I guess I'll have to go back to Gwinnett so you can show me :>)Hang in there...Hotlanta will rebound.BB
> was not even considered at 61 years old as they filled all the $10 and under jobs with young college graduates who could not find a job or was recently laid off and willing to work 20 hours a week for $9-$10. Does that tell you anything? If not.. it should. :>#<That may be what they told you in order to be politically-correct. In reality, they were afraid that the first time a fist fight started because some drunk spilled beer on another, there would soon be people marching around the parking lot receiving "extra military instruction." The thought of all the troublemakers being out behind the parking lot digging foxholes and doing calisthenics was not the look they wanted for the new ballpark. They may change their mind, later."Yes, but what's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded." - Augustus McCrae, Lonesome Dove
Things just ain't been right since they abolished the Georgia Chain Gang, Ed. When someone got caught by the Georgia State Patrol in the ole days.. they just dragged them out of the car.. into the woods and saved court cost for the tax-payer. :>)
They are probably going to throw me out of this joint if I make any more comments like that but.. I've been thrown out of swankier joints for less reason so what the h*ll. Did you see a movie from way back in the 50's or early 60's called The DI .. I belive with Jack Webb. The DI warned a recruit not to slap mosquitoes as it would break silence ( a no-no) in a combat scenario. One broke discipline and slapped a mosquito anyway. The DI had him dig a 8' long x 4' wide x 6' deep hole and bury the mosquito.
Can't folks just follow the damn rules.. avoid acting un-civilized and avoid getting slapped up side the head with a 2 x 4 which is justifiable as I see things from my view? ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards from a non Gwinnett Braves employee who only wanted a part time job for side money and to see the games free.... college kids can just kiss my old southern arse... :>)
Sarge...
Edited 6/4/2009 4:39 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Yes Sarge, I did see that movie - a good one. My theory is that the really good Drill Instructors were the ones that could make you think that they were a little bit crazy. You just didn't know,...they could snap at any moment. My drill instructor was Gunnery Sergeant Washington, USMC, a short, bald black man who wore those thick, black government-issue eyeglasses. Behind the thick lenses, his eyeballs seemed like two black marbles that went in different directions - when he was really mad, they would be kind of rolling around and bouncing back and forth in different directions like crazy pinballs. It was NOT a good sight to see coming towards you when you had dropped your rifle or something."Yes, but what's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded." - Augustus McCrae, Lonesome Dove
I'm not totally sure they were trying to make you think they were crazy, Ed. My thoughts are they very well are crazy. I was under tactical command of 3rd Marine Div. in I Corps on the DMZ in Vietnam. They were the most "disciplined" soldiers I have ever seen or worked with and that includes S. Korean Rock Marines. You could most definitely count on them in a fight.
With that said.. I don't believe anyone is born with "discipline".. I think it is acquired and I firmly believe the Marines start "acquiring" it in boot camp under the guidance of those "crazy".. demanding drill instructors. Telling authority you aren't going to do something and telling a Marine DI you won't fall into different catergories. You might get away with the first but.. you ain't about to get away with the latter. Or as we would say in Vietnam... that mistake would be considered a "Dead Kill" from the moments they came out of your mouth.. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,"since they abolished the Georgia Chain Gang". Ya know Sarge thats what I thought but untill I moved here in 2004, every time I was on the Perimeter or 85 to midtown, I saw an awful lot of those there white uniforms in a line with a guard/shotgun at both end pickin up the roads. Course they did have an air conditioned bus.
Mustabin the PC version. :>)
The good ole days in Hotlanta."Shakin' it up here boss!"BB
Oh yeah... I can go 2 miles and see the prisoner crews around our very large County Administrative building cleaning up and cutting grass. Same thing on the roadways with the busses... guards.. etc. as those are trustees..
But.. that ain't the Chain Gang Doc... on the old Georgia Chain gang they wore leg irons with balls. There is a prison about 11 miles up the road from me at Buford, Georgia. It used to be called the Buford Rock Quarry Prison as the prisoners busted granite rock (Georgia is loaded wtih granite) all day regardless of weather with 8 lb. sledge hammers. Many would break their legs intentionally with the sledge to get out of the sun knowing they would go to solitary confinement which had a tin roofed top under the ground. The tin gets real hot in summer and real cold in winter. But.. that beat busting rock 8 hours a day.
So.. prisoner road crews but no chain gang as it once existed when I was growing up. When you saw those things as a kid... you pretty much made an effort in your latter years to abide by the law as you understood the consequences of breaking it.. and besides.... yo mama said to abide by the law.
Down south in those days.. ya had better do what your mama said to do or your dad would get a hold of you for not minding her. :>) When I see kids talk back to their parents now I grit my teeth as I really have an inner desire to back-hand them straight to their butt which is what my dad would have done to me and with just cause. Butt.... our society has changed I guess? Things are better now I am told.
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/4/2009 9:49 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/4/2009 9:50 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/4/2009 9:54 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/4/2009 9:57 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Why would anyone want to curtail mayhem, especially in Georgia???
Hi Jim! They're trying to stay one step up on the civilized scale from Mississippi.
We moved all the mayhem inside to our hockey rinks since we started wearing shoes about 30 years ago. From the influx of people that moved to Georgia after that... we probably should not have done either in an attempt to persuade them to stay where they were. ha.. ha...
Sarge..
My brother worked for the Post office in Atlanta and said there were still pockets of mayhem outside of the hockey rinks but they were mostly confined to the major streets after dark, whereas Ed's area doesn't have enough people off the farm to notice. Heh heh . . .
All kinds of mayhem inside the perimeter... the only time I go downtown anymore is to the International WW Fair every two years. In lieu of go to Highland Hardware (Woodworking) I just order over the phone and it's to my door the next day. I don't have season tickets for the Falcons.. Thrashers or Braves anymore. We have a AAA Braves farm team 8 miles away in the burbs and the hockey farm team (ECL) for the Thrashers 9 miles from my door in the burbs which used to be referred to as the "sticks".
Frankly I have no need.. no desire.. no nothing to warrant going inside the perimeter.... period.. I am 35 miles from downtown and frankly.. that's 30 miles too close. ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/4/2009 9:47 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
You mean the Atlanta Braves are now in Richmond? I thought the Braves were in Milwaukee.
Nah the big league Braves are in Atlanta.. Their AAA farm club that was in Richmond is in Gwinnett Co., Georgia in metropolitan Atlanta. I like to leave the bent portion of the nail exposed for asthetic reasons. It's a matter of personal preference as some do.. some don't. :>)
Sarge..
You are a young-un, all right. when I was a young fella I would sometimes listen to the Milwaukee Braves. And when I was in College I'd listen to the Minneapolis Lakers. Ooooooo, does that date me?
You mean like the Dodgers in Brooklyn.. the St. Louis Browns who had a player and latter scout from my home town .. Oliver Harris) and the list could go on. Yes.. I do remember the Braves coming to town from Milwaukee which brought Hank Aaron with them and the Alou Bros. for that matter.
The first professional baseball game I saw in the mid 50's at around 7-8 years old was the St. Louis Cards who owned the International league Atlanta Crackers at the old Ponce de Leon ballpark on Ponce de Leon Ave. The large magnolia tree in center field on the hill you skirted around as you ran up the hill to attempt to catch a long fly in center. Red Schoendize (sp) was playing for the Cards with a young rookie center fielder named Lou Brock who went on to steal a few bases before he retired.
Frankly.. since the baseball strike years back now.. I don't really have an interest in baseball as my sense of value for the game was stolen by the contracts given at this stage. It lost it's mystique for me as the players at one time actually thought it was nice to draw $100 a game to play in lieu of having a real job. Times have changed haven't they? :>)
BTW... I will be 62 in October so yeah.. I am younger than you but probably older than a few others.
Sarge..
Edited 6/10/2009 12:25 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/10/2009 12:27 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
The truth be known, I never was very interested in baseball but I did run around with a kid some that was very interested in baseball. Like you, I was quite disappointed with the players when they had that strike. I remember the Brooklyn Dodgers. We had this old cranky teacher back in seventh or eighth who surprised me by taking the whole class period to let the class listen to the Brooklyn Dodgers play the NY Yankees in the (I think) the final game of the World Series. That would have been back in 45 or 46, I think. Seems to me that the Yankees won but I'm not sure. Then we all went to our wood shops and worked happily ever after.
Sarge,
That would have been back in 45 or 46, I think.
Ummmm, the Yankees played the Brooklyn Dodgers in the World Series in '49, '52 and '56. So unless you lied about your age in your profile {Gr.} methinks it was prolly '56. But I know you never tell a lie George, oooopppsss I mean Sarge.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Actually, the Brooklyn Trolley Dodgers played the New York Yankees in the World Series in 1941, 1947, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1955 and 1956 (in fact from 1947-1956, of the 20 teams that contested the Series, 16 of them were from New York- either the Giants, the Dodgers or the Yankees- a small "World"). The Yankees won all of those Series against "dem Bums"except for the famous 1955 match-up. That year, the key play was in the 6th inning of game 7 when Sandy Amoros robbed Yogi Berra of an extra base hit that likely would have tied the game with a spectacular catch. It was the first and only World Series title to go to Brooklyn. My Dad was there, and anyone who attended would remember...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I thought we had our hands slapped for talking sports?
You're right. We should stick to safer topics- race, religion, politics, gun ownership, Festool...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
What??????? You missed alcohol and sexual orientation!
Tony,
I like talking baseball.
Is Phil Rizzuto still playing?
What about Whitey Ford?
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Whitey Ford was one of my heros many years ago. But at the moment, I'm still preoccuppied with hockey!
8:12 PM.. on the ice.. game's on. Under 5 1/2 without a clue really other than I think it will come down to goalies in this one.
Go Penns.. (not those Penns as in Staters... :>)
Sarge..
Pengs 2, RWs 1.
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
As evidenced by the 3-3 series.. you knew they were capable. They finally did what they couldn't do in that building.... kept the puck off those springy boards for the most part.. played defense and had an outstanding night from their young goalie.
When my better half has a good night.. I have a good night.. :>)
Sarge..
We got it Sarge!! We're headed to the 'Burgh shortly to partake in the celebration!
Congratulations... the First Lady of Cheers is naturally elated. Sound defense in their own zone.. kept the puck off those springy.. unpredictable Joe Louis Arena boards and an outstanding night for the young goalie. In other words they finally showed up in Detroit and played that rink the way it has to be played. And it certainly doesn't hurt matters to have younger legs over-all in the long, drawn out, physically taxing series from the opening round until the final round.
And as far as a bonus for me... Under 5 1/2 goals total which relates to I made around $180 for the series with the Penguins. Not exactly like the winning ticket in the lottery but.. satisfaction of meeting the mental challenge of beating the book-markers odds lines.
So... even though we probably won't drive to Pittsburgh to join the celebration.. I will probably take my spoils of victory and get a tank of gas in my pick-up... then latter to-night take her to Longhorn Steak for the filet she loves. With any luck she might wear her cheer-leader outfit to celebrate the bravado of the Pittsburgh lad's who done good against the more experienced and favored crowd from over yonder in another town. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Again congratulations to Penguin fans in what was a very hard fought and exciting hockey series regardless of final outcome.
Sarge..
Edited 6/13/2009 9:02 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,
Much more enjoyable outcome this year than last! Future SIL had a keg out on his deck, along with a TV and needless to say, I'm slightly wounded this morning.
Now, to keep this on woodworking track, how would one approach correcting those "lively" boards at Joe Louis? You have to wonder what the composition is in the framework and the boards themself. But, as a few Pens have said, it didn't bother them, as many arenas they play in are similar.
Quite a year so far for Pittsburgh: Super Bowl, Stanley Cup and maybe, yes maybe, the Pirates may not have a losing season.
T.Z.
I think let them be as they are.. just realize they are the way they are and try to keep the puck in the center rink with use of the boards at a minimum. The once Atlanta Knights (International Leaque) that were around after the Flames were sold to Calgary and before the Thrashers played in the old Omni that indeed have spring boards and soft ice considered the temperature outside might be in the 70's.
I have seen two pucks go into a net of the opposing goalie because he was not alert. A desperation move to clear the puck from the home end due to pressure being put on.. a hard slap shot to the center rink boards that hit a crease divider in the boards and took a very funny trajectory. A shot that was traveling so fast that the trajectory led to the net while that goalie was being non-chalant at his end and out of net with the action at the other.
Now you don't think that the home rink boys knew about that gap in the boards and intentionally tried to hit it do you? Heck.. that ain't fair to the other team. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Drink a couple of pounds of coffee.. take two aspirin and a nap latter. Time is the cure for all things... :>)
BTW... the Smart's award should go to Mario Lemieux for bringing in that new coach who will most likely be around awhile...
The Duuuhhhh award has to to to Hossa who left town purposely to get on a team with the best odds of winning the Stanley Cup cause he wanted to win the Stanley Cup. I suppose he figured out every pro hockey team wants to win the Stanley Cup and it ain't awared when the Fat Lady sings the National Anthem at the first game of the season. :>)
Sarge..
Edited 6/13/2009 9:25 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/13/2009 9:34 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
You posted to Tink who is old enough to have seen a 46' series and you refer to me, Bob? My profile says born in 1947 I believe so I for sure didn't make it to the game. Now I'm confused enough as it is.. was and wll be... :>)
Non subject post.. where and to who do I pay the penalty fine as I try to be a man with integrity?
ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Sarge..
If you addressed your post to Tink, it is probably Tink the message was for. Glaucon says the Dodgers and Yanks played in 47 so maybe that was when it was. Problem - I think 46 was the last year for that particular teacher. How about we compromise and call it 46? My goodness, that was over sixty years ago. How do you expect me to remember that when I can't even remember what I did yesterday?
She let us listen to the game on radio. At that time, I had never heard of TV and it wasn't until I began college in 51 that I finally saw a TV in a department store in down town Saint Paul, Minnesota. Good grief, by 56 I was out of college and in Uncle Scam's army.
Edited 6/13/2009 12:27 am ET by Tinkerer3
Edited 6/13/2009 12:30 am ET by Tinkerer3
Hey man, kin I call ye Uncle Tink!?
I'm only pushin 63.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hmmmm...............Steel City / desirability of chain gangs / misc sports / history of NYC World Series / back to Steel City / hockey scores / how Sarge met 2nd (?) wife / complaint from sidelines about thread drift / etc. etc. the more things change, the more they stay the same...........<G> ********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
What thread drift?
And around post 100 or 101.. a half-time analysis from someone. I can remember doing that myself on at least two occasions here in the olden days. But both were the more vicious type threads where all the meat was consumed with the first 20 post and the rest was just a scuffle between difference in ideals and personalities... even though I suspect that many of those really just didn't have anything better to do at the moment. ha.. ha...
Sarge.. who cannot bet on hockey anymore this season so I change the subject priority to NASCAR until "pig-skin time" arrives.
I suppose you can call me Uncle Tink. Some of them call me Grampa Tink.
Tink (for short)
PS As I age, I get more forgetful. Are you really my nephew?
Milwaukee? I thought the Braves were in Boston. :)BruceT
Milwaukee? I thought the Braves were in Boston.
Well, they were in Boston but only for the afternoon to play the Red Sox.
And from 1912 to 1953.BruceT
Is this true?
Actually they were founded in Boston as the Boston Red Stockings in 1871, but changed to Red Caps when the National League was founded (and Cincinnati took that nickname), then became the Bean Eaters and finally, in 1912, the Boston Braves. The team didn't move to Milwaukee until 1953.BruceT
Thanks for the info. Man, I didn't realize professional baseball even existed back in 1871. Did the term Red Stocking have any significance? Man, I thought that back in '44 when I listened to baseball that it was the Milwaukee Braves. You say the Boston Red Stockings later became the Braves and a new team in Boston named themselves the Boston Red Socks?
You can find more here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_baseball_team_nicknames#Boston_Red_SoxBruceT
I'd be wary of rumors...last year it was rumored that CMT was going under and they are alive and kicking. Tom
I'd be wary of rumors...
Agreed. All this is pure speculation, and could just as easily represent the health of woodcraft as the health of Steel City.
In any case I wish Steel City well. I hear they make great products, and are one of the few manufacturers to sell in Canada.
Buster,
Have you heard anything on House of Tools in Calgary? Noise is they closed up May 13.Don
They're gone, all closed up. Too bad, I'd always had a pretty favourable experience with them. Quite a surprise.
All the western Canada locations closed. They swear they are coming back at least in Victoria. We now have a KMS tools instead.Edited 6/2/2009 8:02 pm ET by pcott
Edited 6/2/2009 8:02 pm ET by pcott
How sad. They closed in my neighborhood, Langley BC, a few months ago. Word was then that the owners (new?) were going to consolidate in Alberta. They had good knowledgeable staff here. KMS doesn't come close unfortunately as far as woodworking is concerned. :-(Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Edited 6/2/2009 8:38 pm by PeterDurand
I haven't heard anything first hand. It's all been speculation. The rumor is that House of Tools was bought out by a US company at some point, which went under. Apparently the Canadian versions were still profitable... I have some doubt regarding that last part, the stores were large and carried a lot of stock.This years wood show should be pretty sad, given that House of tools had 50% of the tool space.As far as I've heard there is no sell out, or auction. Most of the stock gets returned to the manufacturers.
They had a pretty good fire sale here in Victoria.But they still had tons of stuff left over.
I believed that was a planned closing, I remember reading about those. They closed a store in Edmonton as well and had a sale. Apparently here in Calgary people showed up to go into the store and found a note on the door saying they were closed.
We'll see whats happening...
Did I miss something in the posts. I don't remember Woodcraft saying that Steel City was going out of business. But our local Woodcraft has had problems getting at least some machines.Steel City had a sale on dust collectors that was a good price for what all of the reviews said was a good machine so I ordered one. Our local Woodcraft store ordered eight of them and that was several months ago. They never did show up and Steel City was unable to give a ship date so it is my understanding that our local Woodcraft store canceled the order.I e-mailed Steel City's customer service from their web site and did not get a response. So does that mean Steel City is in trouble. I don't know. But if they can't respond with some sort of estimate on a shipping date, people will loose confidence in them and that will cost them sales.I probably would have put up with an even longer delay with my order if I could have some confidence in it eventually shipping. Domer
Domer,
I don't remember Woodcraft saying that Steel City...
No you didn't, Forestgirl posted something to this effect. But not until after my initial thread...
The threads that were posted all seemed to be in regards to Woodcraft and Steel City. ctj?? post was that this is all just rumor, and I agree. I'd hate to see rumors start that are at this point baseless.
There ar emultiple reasons why Steel City may not have shipped product to a certain Woodcraft store. Demand is just as likely if the item was on sale. Steel City never really seemed to have anything ins tock here... Even last year!But if they can't respond with some sort of estimate on a shipping date, people will loose confidence in them and that will cost them sales.
I agree.
buster
Sarge's connections should have something to say. Unfortunately nothing came back. Unless I missed something. Gawd, I hope this is just a silly rumor.Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
There could be another side to Woodcraft not having product shipped shipped to them. Are they slow to pay there bills?
There can be two sides to what is going on, so before everyone writes off Steel City. The facts will come out sooner than later.
I do know that when I worked for another company that caters to woodworkers, I sure had a hard time cashing my paychecks!
Taigert
Edited 6/4/2009 12:40 am ET by Taigert
From the Lumberjock post: "Recently a woodcraft employee told me they were afraid that Steel City was going under."
Bad form. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Agreed. Rumors are just that.
For what its worth, the Canadian sources of Steel City didn't give me any idication of any issues. I called looking for a Bench Morticer and they thought they could get me one...
Steel City is a privately held company so you can't look their numbers up anywhere. I hope they are OK they seem to have some good products. Maybe they are just reorganizing or something.Domer
"Did I miss something in the posts. I don't remember Woodcraft saying that Steel City was going out of business." The original post on Lumberjocks conveyed a communication from a Woodcraft employee a customer (forum member) with that speculation. Click on the Lumberjock link in the first post. If they haven't deleted the thread, you'll see it there.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/4/2009 12:51 am by forestgirl
Here is a thread from Canadian Woodworking Forum documenting the House to Tools saga http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?t=27130
Lyle
LB, did that Sawmill Creek thread get pulled? I'm trying to access it (after logging in) and I get a "you do not have permission to access this page" message.
Hello forestgirl.
Sawmill Creek did pull that thread and replaced it with one titled "Which woodworking companies are in trouble" to avoid naming names and I cannot find that either.
Regardless, I hope it is just rumours because I like the innovation Steel City brought to the marketplace.
Lyle
It amazes me that Woodcraft would start a rumor like this on the basis of one machine not making ship dates, whether it's one date or three. Rather irresponsible on their part, IMHO.
Here is the latest info I have regarding steel city - Sounds like the Box's are out and the Chinese portion of the company has bought their share. Whether this is because of financial problems or the company becoming profitable enough to be bought out, I don't know. For those of you who want scientifically verifiable evidence, I don't have it. All I have is the info from my boss at the local woodcraft.
Chris
"Sounds like the Box's are out and the Chinese portion of the company has bought their share. " Pardon me for being dense, but I'm having trouble understanding that sentence. Help?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Me too.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I just picked up my 8" Steel City variable speed grinder today and asked about Steel City status. Apparently there is some truth to every rumor. I was told the Box brothers have taken buyout although one of them will continue to work with Steel City as a "consultant". Not sure if it is Jim or Scott. They also had a guy on board who formerly ran Delta operations in Canada and he is going to become the new president. It is being called an internal reorganization. Hope that adds some clarification.
Edited 6/9/2009 3:59 pm ET by LB
Edited 6/9/2009 4:05 pm ET by LB
Jim is gone.. Scott is consulting...
The Canadian guy was a partner from the beginning and he was originally from Delta and ran the Canadian SC operation. Correct on now being the president.
The Chinese connection is a partner and owns the SC plant there. One of the orginal partners taht founded Orion left a while back to pursue other than the machinery business.
That's all I will say and I probably would not have said that. I did to avoid rumors running rampant. I kept quiet as what I hear in a private conversation is private... even though in this case will surface eventually as these you mentioned did. But... so will much speculation and rumors based on no real facts. That is the way of the inter-net I suppose. Same theory used to work well over the neighbors back fence while the wife was hanging out the wash to dry if I rember correctly. We just have more modern methods of spreading rumors and speculation these days I suppose. :>)
Back to my bunker under the house formally referred to as the shop.
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge..
Edited 6/9/2009 5:38 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/9/2009 5:39 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/9/2009 5:40 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Thanks Sarge. <!----><!----><!---->
As I mentioned before, I have plenty of Steel City Hardware and as a satisfied customer, I was hoping to get some clarity for it would have been a shame if they had run into trouble. People come and go for a variety of reasons but so long as they keep the "spirit" of the company alive, in this case innovation and customer service, they should land on their feet. I respect and understand your discretion given your proximity to the erstwhile principals. <!----><!---->
Having said that who is this “Canadian” guy? I may know of him but then again I could be wrong.<!----><!---->
Finally, can you please pass on to them to put some kind of press release to “squash” the rumor mill? Although they are privately held and can do what they please, savvy business practices demand using history as a guide. I recall their launch a few years back and a lot of “nay sayers” doubted their staying power versus Delta or Powermatic and hence the five year guarantee. This perceived uncertainly feeds into that mindset and rumors will do more damage than any amount of competition<!----><!---->
LB
Edited 6/9/2009 6:38 pm ET by LB
Edited 6/9/2009 6:41 pm ET by LB
I can't remember his name even though I have heard it several times. He was the only partner of the 5 active at that time that did not attend the IWF Show so I have never met him personally. And frankly.. I forgot his name. Go to the SC web site and click on contact. The Mursfreesboro address in the U.S. is now defunct at they moved to CA. but.. I do believe the Canadian address is still correct. E-mail and ask them who is head of the Canadian operation and the president.
As far as relay... my main contact is out and starting a scratch and dent sales.. machinery repair business. The other is there in a different function so I really have no inside to the new Steel City.. have no idea how it will function.. etc.. etc... At this point I am simply a customer like you. I just happened to know what you revealed today about 3-4 weeks ago as Scott and Jim becoming almost as close as brothers to me. Same for Scott's son Mike... just good people from my view and I wish them well regardless of how they evolve from the re-structure. I can tell you none of them will move to CA. under any circumstance.
I have 3 SC machines.. I have a York-craft 20" planer and a Bridgewood Industrial floor morticer with Bridgewood and York-craft being now defunct. No problems from either. If I do.. I know where to get bearings.. belts.. knives.. pulleys.. etc. etc. I look at even the fact that the company that sold both is gone.. that is not a real problem to me (or should be for anyone) as I can get parts that will work fine. Very few things go wrong with a piece of machinery. If something does it usually happens from the git-go.
So... off to prepare for my wife's beloved Pittsburgh Penguins to stay alive against the Wheels from Detroit. I have glue drying and it's almost Hockey Time at the Sarge house-hold. We all have priorities. ">)
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge:Even though I do not own any Steel City product, I admired their pluck and dedication to making decent machines at a reasonable price supported by great service.I cannot help feel a sense of loss and although I hope it turns out well I have a sinking feeling about the all-too familiar progression:1. Great machinery guys see an opening in the market2. Guys go out and get funding and get off the ground3. Guys concentrate on great machines and great service, putting profits on the back seat4. Money guys start getting restless5. Money guys get fed up and replace original founders, who had the vision6. New guy comes in and drives business into the ground in the name of shareholder return. (New guy has financial background)7. Powermatic says, "I told you so"I really hope I'm wrong about this.Hastings
I hope so also Hastings. I have somewhat of an empty feeling on the issue as I have been treated with the utmost respect by the Box's and have re-ciprocated the respect to both them and the company. I sort of look as them as adopted brothers in a sense.
I will continue WW'ing which is my first priority as I watch the progress of the new arrangement from the corner of my eye. I simply am a customer. I put my pants on and take them off just as any other customer and frankly don't have time to lose sleep over issues that fall outside my own responsibility. That's reality with a capital R. :>)
As you say... time will tell and anything can happen in the current economy. If there are any that are not effected by it at this point.. I believe they probably will be with time as I don't think our current economy has shown anything but the tip of an ugly head today and expect to see much more ugliness emerge from the shadows.
Sarge..
Edited 6/10/2009 10:10 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,
You're a Penquin fan (in-law)? Great to hear! I was at the game last night (as well as most home games).
T.Z.
"I was at the game last night"
And you're already upright n' at? LOL!Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
No choice in the matter Mike! I had to sign payroll checks this morning prior to their distribution!
I live in DuBois, so I had a 2 hour drive to get home. I thought Rt. 28 would be a nightmare, but it was fine going in and coming out, even with the Sharpsburg detour. Sad that home hockey games are done (until pre-season), except for the Friday night grand finale!
T.Z.
"I live in DuBois, so I had a 2 hour drive to get home. "
Ah, so I shoulda said "STILL upright". ;-)
Go home. Take a nap! Start gettin' ready for game 7.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
No can do! I'm fueled with enough caffiene to keep me going through Friday's game! The big decision will be where to watch it--TV on the back deck or one of the local establishments (two of our daughters are of "legal" age and they are opting for the second choice, along with boyfriends).
I don't have much alternative but to be a Penguin fan, Tony. Little Miss ex Univ. of Pittsburgh cheer-leader who is 12 years younger than I came down to visit her sister who lived next door after I was divorced. LMeUoP showed up at my door one evening in the summer about 9 PM with a plastic cup in her hand with a forefinger touching her lips.
The story is she was baking a cake with her sister and ran out of sugar so "they" thought I might be able to loan a cup. I invited her in to find out she had seen me working in the yard that day in the hot summer Georgia sun. The next day LMeUoP made a point to come outside to wash her sister's car while I was out again cutting grass.
Probably un-intentional (yeah.. right) but she had on about the shortest pair of short-shorts I have ever seen.. bare-foot (which I won't go into) and a tank top. The lure had been thrown out for the fish with a great presentation and the fish took the bait. I walked over and ask her if she would like to come over that night to see a movie. She said sure as there were no plans with her sister.
Well.. she came over al-right. That was 22 years ago and hasn't left since with no indication that she might. So... yeah.... have to pretend to love dem Penguins and Steelers to keep things in "all" things in perspective. So far.. it's working great. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Now.. with all that goobley-goo said... take note. I do a little sports gambling for a hobby on a very small scale as I love to attempt beating the odds which most are capable of. I do my own hand-capping and here's what I see in reality. I hope for my wife's sake that I lose my small $10 bet game seven. What I see is a series that has been more than exceptional but.. each team has out-played the other so far on HOME ICE. In the entire play-off series I only lost two bets from first round to this final round and one of them was the other night when the Pens got trampled in Game 5. I took the Pens in Detroit that game thinking momentum would carry nto the Wheels rink.
That was far from being true and I went to the shop mid 2nd quarter. So... bottom line.. game 7 is in Detroit which from track record of this final series highly suggest the home team on their ice with springy boards being a factor in Detroit. I will have to lay for the Wings in that game but sincerely hope I am wrong in this particular case. You have to bet (even the very small amounts I do) with your head and not your heart. Any thing otherwise is not wise.
Good luck to Pitt and on this occasion I hope to lose the bet. I have bet on 17 NASCAR match-ups between two drivers so far and I am 15-2. For that matter I deposited $300 into an off-shore sports betting account 4 years ago and that original $300 is still there with excess purchasing hardwood for my projects. I'm not a bad handi-capper for a country boy when all is considered.
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/10/2009 2:06 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,
Damn if that wasn't one of the most enjoyable posts I've seen in years on all the forums I visit! I'm sitting here smiling, already questioned by someone as to what am I looking at on my monitor! Damn, that was good!
Anyhow, I don't disagree with what you've said about Game 7, but I'm hoping for a Penquin victory.
By the way, tell little Miss U of Pitt that we're all Penn State folks in my household (wifey-pooh, mag-pie #1, mag-pie #2, mag-pie-#2's future hubby, & me with mag-pie #3 saying she'll aslo be PSU (only 9 now) and she wants to be a singing scientist).
T.Z.
That Penn State.. Yankee white trash is over on the other side of town in the form of a BIL who is a hydraulics shop foreman at Delta Air Lines. And add those Yankee parents-in-law who moved down about 2 years ago to the list. They might as well have moved down as they were down 8 months out of the year and the reason I refused to put in a pool. If I had they would have been down more along with her other sisters. ha.. ha... ha..ha.ha..
Just kidding about the Yankee thang as my BIL is the greatest guy and friend I could ever ask for. You call him at 2 AM in the morning and ask him to drive over to help you lift a board... he simply would no questions ask. I supply the WW and he supplies the metal working. He is also an ex BMW mechanic and does all our brakes.. etc. on the vehicles.
Good people even though her father is a bit northernish but not as bad since he moved down. He is only about 11 years older than me and oh yeah... he first attempted to tell us we should do this and do that when he would visit. Well... until one day I pulled him aside and down to my shop where I had a little talk.
Basically I told him I was almost as old.. was a grown man very capable of making my own choices and not to ever come into my house and demand I do this or that. In return I would not come over to his house and tell him how to handle his affairs. Then I clearly explained where all 3 exits to my house are and he would be using one if he did again..
Whatever reason.... no problems since then. For that matter he even takes the Yankee jokes and when I know they are coming I put up my Yankee Go Home Banner over the entrance to my drive which the neighbors gets a kick out of. And then theres the pay parking meter at the bottom of the drive my friend the mayor of my hometown got me when they upgraded. I drop it in the concrete hole at the bottom of the drive and make them put pennies in it to park.
They just laugh at all this now.. tell their friend from PA. when they visit and they all laugh. They call me their Wild Southern Son-in-Law. Now.. mind you I love Dutch girls (especially in short-shorts and bare-foot) and Dutch cooking but... my MIL better not bring that sauer kraut when we have a family get together as she knows she will never hear the end of it. I can tolerate about anything but I won't allow sauer kraut on my property.. A man has to do what a man has to do.. :>)
Go Penns.. come to think of it I really hate to lay a bet against so I may go Under 5 1/2 goals as the game could be a defensive skirmish. That's the new plan and I'm sticking to it.
Sarge..
Edited 6/10/2009 4:43 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Just a personal observation and preference I'd like to note. I wish there was a way to change the title of a discussion thread once the discussion is hijacked and is no longer about the original subject. This thread is a good example, originally about Steel City Status now we seem to be talking sports; which I personally don't care for one wit but each to his/her own. I hate seeing that there are new posts to a thread I've been following only to check in and find out it no longer has anything to do with the original post. If someone wants to talk about something different why not just start a new discussion of their own?Chuck
WoodLess -- as I'm sure you know, being the veteran member you are, it is quite common for a thread that has exhausted most possibilities of on-topic information to take a detour to topics that participating members have in common but not related to woodworking. IMHO, this is one of the things that helps the community be an interesting community. Agreed that often I (or you) don't have time or interest in the subsequent topics. That is where the art of "scanning" the posts comes in handy. It's pretty easy to skim through posts and stop only at one(s) that target the original topic.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
To echo Jamie's comments: Like conversations, threads drift. All threads, all forums. It is a universal constant. You either learn to live with it or go do something else. There are forums where the proprietors try to keep threads on-topic, or manage the drift in other ways (such as renaming, etc.). These are usually the dullest, least interesting forums around, because it's just too much work, and goes against human nature.
-Steve
Since I am one of the perpetrators in the case of this thread.. I will make a more valiant attempt to avoid it. I've been here for awhile and totally agree that most threads will eventually drift off. Of course when I am personally involved then I probably have an interest. When I am not I just glance and can tell or read the first line and move on when not about the original topic.
But.. being the extremely handsome and nice guy I really am under the rough exterior.. I will do my part by staying off the computer more as I am retired and pretty much constantly in the shop 5-6 days a week. I catch these forums on frequent coffer breaks and when I do get involved in a strayed off conversation.. it does indeed cost me shop time.
So.. with that said I am heading to the shop now. Again... it's pretty easy to tell when the meat has been consumed and the desert which has little to do with the main course is served on the table. As mentioned by several... pretty standard fare on several forums with exception of a few of the most heavily policed and someone is constantly looking over your shoulder. As long as you understand that you develop a sense of when to abandon a watch...
Regards...
Sarge.. who is off.. off and away. :>)
Edited 6/11/2009 11:17 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 6/11/2009 11:19 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
"If someone wants to talk about something different why not just start a new discussion of their own?"
Like starting a new discussion about thread drift?
Hey Chuck,
Look at the bright side man. Could have drifted off into pilotics!
Yeah I know, it sometimes can get a bit nerve racking but like Mr. Gump said, well you know, box of chocolates - never know what yer gonna git.
Tell ye what, stay away from chat rooms.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks, LB, this thread is starting to make sense now, especially with the additional info from Sarge. Thought I was in a parallel universe for awhile there....forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
We work wood, sometimes by hand. That confirms that we're already in a parallel universe. ;-)
It's hard to clarify because it makes sense to me! I'm just trying to say that the Box bros. may have been bought out by the Chinese half. Make any more sense? Too much lawn fertilizer in my brain right now...Chris
With help from LB and Sarge, translation is successful!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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