Please don’t beat me up, but I’ve been using the edge of a sacrificial chisel (and the blade) as a scraper – it’s quite rough on the chisel but it’s ok I have a good set too.
Anyway, I was wondering how one gets started with scrapers. I’ve found scraping is really handy and, as many testify here, appears better than sanding. So I’m all for it.
I don’t want to run out an buy scrapers without some info.
There are at least 3 differnt types of scrapers listed at Lee-Valley (Hardened, Swedish bahco, extra thin….) Where is a good place to start (the good news is that scrapers are not very expensive).
And while you’re at it, how are scrapers shaprned? Are they ground flat. I also noticed burnishers what do you do with those things? How does one put a “curl” on a scraper edge? Why?
These questions and more…
Thanks,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Replies
Being new to the whole woodworking thing, I can only give you my 3 months experience with scrapers, which is only the ones from Lee Valley. I saw DJ Marks, Wood Works on DIYNetwork, use them and got curious. I bought the LV kit with the adjustable burnisher, holder and sharpening guide. I received 6 scrapers total. One with the burnisher and holder and an extra pack of 4. I don't know if the special is still running, but it is worth looking into. I used mine to finish the corner banding on my reloading bench and the line where the top and side meet is almost non-existant. You can barely see it and you can't feel it at all. I am now a firm believer in scraping, because all of the sanding to get to that point would have sucked! Like I stated above, I'm totally new to this but it worked for me!! HTH
Thanks, I found the set. $68. Does that sound about right?http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32633&cat=1,310,41070
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
View Image
That's a hell of a lot for a scraper and the tools to get going, Mark. I'm trying to think how you could avoid all that expense and yet still have a decent 'scraping' experience.
One decent scraper should cost no more than about £2-5, about US$3-5. A burnisher should cost no more than about £15-17 or US$20.
All you need on top of that is a decent No. 2 cut mill file for a couple of bucks and a sharpening stone to refine the jointed edge and the smoothing of the faces before you make the hook.
Like a lot of other things, such as sharpening planes and chisels which people talk endless useless twaddle about and get all knicker twisted concerning mirror bright this, and perfect edge that, sharpening and using scrapers is not really a big deal. You just need a bit of simple five minute instruction and you'll be up and running.
Is there a half decent furniture maker in your area that could take the mystique out of this for you? Or perhaps a woodworkers club/association where someone that knows there erse from their elbow could demonstrate? Slainte.RJFurniture
Not disagreeing with you here, Richard, but want to point out what's included in the LV scraper kit (gizmos you can live without, I'm sure!<g>)
Veritas Jointer/Edger to get a 90* edge
8" mill file
Veritas "variable burnisher" -- enables you to dial in a specific burnishing angle
Four milled scrapers
Veritas scraper holder
A gizmo-lover's delight, LOL!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Okay, fg, so for $15 you can buy a file holder that holds a file square to the edge. I've got things at the end of my arms called hands that do that, and they came free.
And a variable burnisher at $26 for tilting the burnisher over a bit. Again I've hands at the end of my arms for that wee trick.
Lastly, a scraper holder for $29. Puleeze. Just hold the bloody thing between your fingers and bend it a bit. It can't be that hard to hold and use a bit of bendy steel can it?
Yeah, yeah. Point taken. For some people the gizmo's are it, but all that rigmarole just to sharpen and use a simple tool beggars belief.
Perhaps it's time to make a video showing how simple sharpening and using scrapers really is?
Nah. that would never do. It would take the mystery out of it all, and I ain't a famous anyway. Slainte.RJFurniture
Not a video, but how about this?
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00007.asp
Richard,
I tried a Lee Valley scraper and a Lie Nielsen scraper and then a load of Grizzly scrapers, all together costing less than each of the former two. They all do the same thing, they scrape. So I agree with you here.
That variable burnisher at $26, is a good gizmo and trust me, it will beat your wee hands every time. No matter how good you are, it's not possible to maintain exactly the same angle through every burnishing stroke and this makes a difference to the edge on your scraper. Just for the hell of it, it's nice to know exactly what angle you are burnishing at and have scrapers with all kinds of different angles, even though they probably all do the same thing.
Try a wooden block with a carbide bit at 7 degrees on your scraper, I'll be surprised if you don't see the difference, compared to the normal hand burnisher.
If you disagree, let's just say my hands aren't as steady and precise as yours.
Maybe it's then newbie in me, but the tools seemed like a deal to me. I didn't have the file or burnisher or the rest, so getting everything in one fell swoop, is what caught my eye. I sharpen my work knives by hand and can see doing it for scrapers, but having the tool to get me started seemed a good idea. With the 6 scrapers that are included in the set, I have them set at different degrees. It is interesting to see how one works over the other. As admitted in my post above, I don't know a lot, and it probably shows to some of the older members, but I'm learning and want to keep learning the right way to do things. This, at the time seemed like the right thing to buy. Just my $.02, or $68, how ever you want to look at it! LOL!!!
It may have been a mistake in buying all that, BUT ONLY IF YOU THINK SO!
I've made a few expensive goof purchases and ended up with somethng that was given away or garage saled for pennies on the dollar for what I paid because it did not do what I wanted. In this case all of what you bought is good stuff and can be used. You certainly will never have to buy another scaper with 6 of them - this was a one time investment and you probably need the file anyway for other things.
I like the scaper holders, but then I also made mine out of wood. THey help the fingers from getting too hot after using it for a bit.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
A few days ago I bought a new fine file and made a holder like the one seen recently in FWW. Works well, but for years my technique has been to clamp dull scrapers in my bench vice, with the edge showing by a 1/16 or so. and use the surface of the bench as the reference surface while taking a few light strokes along and across the edge of the scraper. I usually have, somewhere handy, a file with a few turns of tape around the end so that I don't gouge the bench (or whatever else I'm filing across).
Worth emphasising that anyone who is smoothing wood should have a couple of sharpened scrapers handy, all the time.
'Nother thought. Speaking of technique. Watching Mr Marks on his Woodworks show, I'm always struck by how he drags his planes and scrapers backwards after completing a cut. Without thinking about it, I've always lifted my block plane up after a push stroke, and I always lift a scraper to carry it back for the next stroke. Rubbing up and down looks silly, and must remove an edge faster as well!?
Malcolm New Zealand | New Thinking0.06% of the world's people are Kiwis
At this time, it still seems like a worthwhile purchase. I agree with the holder point. I used one of them without the holder to see how it was, to see what the "feel" was like, so I knew it when I was doing it right with the holder. I didn't think metal would get that hot moving over wood! I know saw blades get hot, but they move a hell of a lot faster than a scraper! Having some bend control over the scraper with the holder helped in a couple of spots, too. I see this "kit" as a investment that is going to pay off with the 3 cabinets that I have planned for my work shop. Have to get the shop organized before I can build stuff in the shop...a vicious circle if you ask me!
Mark, I got started with scrapers a zillion years ago after reading a FWW article on scrapers. FWW continues to publish articles every so often on card scrapers, and there's even one article on line (go to the FWW page, then choose articles on "tools" from the left hand column).
There are multiple ways to sharpen scrapers, but all use a hard steel burnisher to create the edge. I recommend you get a scraper and burnisher, and see what works for you. I started with a Sandvik scraper (which I still use ALL THE TIME), but added a set of German shapen scrapers and a LN scraper over the years. They all work fine, though I like thicker scrapers over the thinner ones.
Do a search on "card scrapers" on the FWW magazine index, and maybe buy a couple of old articles if you don't have old issues at hand. Then start scraping: the only real way to learn is by doing. Fortunately, there is no big expense or experience obstacle to starting out.
Good luck
Mrk, I posted this over in tool time to a simialr question. these links talk most about how to sharpen them but also have some info on use.
http://www.joewoodworker.com/scraper.htm
http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/scraping/scraper.htm
http://www.fine-tools.com/G10004.htm
Mark... Go with Sgian's advice... he's generally right 105% of the time. I found a Disston scraper at the local Hardware store ($5.00)(an old, dusty non-chain store). An 8 or 10 inch #2 mill file, a stone and a simple burnisher are all you need. A gooseneck scraper, curved like an old gourd is nice too, but it takes a while to get the hang of turning the burr. My OLD Lee Valley catalog shows a 'tri-burnisher' and a carbide one. I prefer the longer style. My burnisher is a round, rather than oval one. It's so old I don't remember where I got it. That $65 kit is total overkill. ONE scraper will last for years, even with continuous use. Yes, it will take time to master the proper sharpening techniques, but it is worth it.
SawdustSteve
Please don't beat me up, but I've been using the edge of a sacrificial chisel (and the blade) as a scraper ..
Hell.. I do that in the corners of stuff.. Nothing wrong with that AT ALL!
I think a sharp scraper better en' ANY plane BY FAR! Just more work~
Edited 6/3/2005 7:41 pm ET by Will George
" ...sharpening and using scrapers is not really a big deal ... "
I burnished my scrapers with the back of a chisel for years. A file and diamond stone are the only other sharpening tools I ever use.
Can I also recommend Lee valley's thin scrapers? Used a couple for the first time recently and love them on softer wood - hardly any pressure required, easier on the fingers, cut sweet.
Malcolm
New Zealand | New Thinking0.06% of the world's people are Kiwis
spelling!
Edited 6/3/2005 8:06 pm ET by kiwimac
Hi, Mark...
You've had some really good advice in the other posts. Here's another half-penny's worth:
Do go to those links and print, read, re-read, and really concentrate on what's said about sharpening technique. It's easy, but it's critical - as important or more so than application technique. Learn to prepare it well (and practice a bit!), and you'll be getting good results in a heartbeat. You needn't ruin a new scraper to practice stance and get the feel of filing. Any thin piece of mild steel (e.g., a piece of 20-gauge scrap from a sheet metal shop) will be perfect for practice. (As Richard says, it's easy. The hard part is trying to put into words what you'd learn in 5 minutes with an instructor.)
You can't file a straight, continuous, perpendicular edge by running the thing across your body and wiggling your butt - change your stance so that it's solid and as nearly in line with the scraper as possible. Whether you use the file jig or your bare hands, it's essential that the file be maintained in a solid grip and square to the scraper. Don't let go of your grip or move your feet - make a stroke and examine the filed surface, all the while retaining body posture so that you can make exactly the same stroke again if needed. That is, "steady up", and be prepared to do it again. When you're doing it right, the file will tell you - the resistance will become just a little heavier, be uniform throughout the stroke, and have a little one-tone "song" to it. Once it's flat, STOP - no need to remove scads of steel.
Remember to remove the old burr before burnishing a new one. Don't press hard with the burnisher - it's hard enough to dent the scraper edge if you abuse it. Same "rules" about stance, etc. when burnishing. The hook is really tiny, and can be felt more easily than seen. Beginners frequently tend to burnish their hearts out looking for a "wood weapon", when all that's wanted is a few thou of really sharp turned edge - what's really important is making every stroke at exactly the same angle - that is, it's repetitive technique, not power, that counts. Burr should feel the same across the scraper's width.
If ever you use a scraper without slightly bending it, be sure that the burr is tapered off at each end so you're not digging holes with the corners.
There are larger scrapers with handles and thicker blades. A good one will have a cylindrical removeable wooden cover over the "up" side of blade so as to provide a secondary hand grip. They're great for really heavy-duty scraping, as they're less tiring for heavy work and can be used with both hands. Because these are not flexed, relieving the sharp corners is critical - just as on a plane blade for surface smoothing.
Once you've done this to the point of familiarity, you'll never abandon the tool. A scraper will turn in a surface vastly superior to one that's sanded "down", and unlike a sander it won't leave high/low spots as grain hardness varies, and it's faster. However, enthusiastic use of a scraper that's dulling (it is as soon as you begin to work with it) can result in sufficient surface polish to risk diminishment of finish adhesion. I always sand (with grain) very lightly with fine paper after scraping just to ensure that I've left no polished resins at the surface - think of it as sanding to roughen microscopically, not to remove material.
Scrapers are also just what the doc ordered if you need to remove a paint run without over-damaging the surrounding material.
Enjoy the new skill!
---John
Edited 6/3/2005 9:52 pm ET by John
Thanks all for your great posts. I've already followed the off-site links and downloaded the articles.I'm not likely to buy the $68 kit. I just wanted to get started. Seem like the consistent advise is get a scraper and a burnisher...Best Regards,
Mark (and John, I discovered that I liked scrapers on a refinishing project - my chisel edge worked great on the legs - no chemicals!
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
View Image
OK, here's a photo of how I now dress a dull scraper (with a shop-made holder, 5 mins work), and 3 shots showing how I used to do it (in my bench vice with some tape around the end of the file).
Malcolm
0.06% of the world's people are Kiwis
Kiwimac,
There was a video clip on here about a year ago showing the process steps for sharpening a scraper, it was similar to your technique.
One thing the presenter did was to make a simple jig to hold the scraper perpendicular(block of wood with a kerf) and about a 1/16" short of the full width of the scraper. Slipping the scraper into the block of wood, it is very easy to flatten the edge on a stone and, resetting the scraper 1/16" proud of the block of wood, put a consistent roll/burr on the edge.
Edited 6/4/2005 8:31 am ET by BG
Hi Mark,
you have indeed been pointed in the right direction in a short time: trust the canny Skean Dhu to point out a potential saving too!
Furthermore, I hesitate to add any more lest I be accused of hi-jacking someone's thread again- but I just add that I have up to now gone without one of those carbide burnishing/angle devices, having been satisfied with a half round file that I smoothed using my belt grinder (what a usefull machine), and buffed smooth.
However, I see the potential satisfaction of this carbide item, so since I endorsed all advice on this post will you pass the hat around and send me a complimentary burnisher?! (the veritas would do).
Edited 6/4/2005 2:01 am ET by mookaroid
Mookaroid,
Your perceptions are correct, the Veritas variable burnisher is overpriced but a terriffic little tool. If you can get someone to buy it for you it's even more enjoyable.
Aaah , yes, BG, congratulations , you are most perspicacious.
In what field are you a consultant?
Mookaroid,
I've been in healthcare for 30 years...driving down the cost here in the US...(lol)
Brain Boggs shot an excelent video showing the ins and outs of card scrapers that was listed on FWW's home page... alas its there no more... however, I did manage to find this...
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00007.asp
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled