Replies

1. 
   user-83153 | Mar 18, 2008 05:26am | #1

   Dave,

   A few of questions. Did you wipe off the excess stain after each application before allowing for drying time? Did you allow drying time between coats of stain? Why are you thinning shellac with mineral spirits? What do you mean by rubbing the shellac?

   It generally isn't a good idea to put multiple coats of stain on a piece. Minwax stains are either a dye, a dye and pigment or just pigment, mixed with a very weak binder. If they are applied to thick, if the excess isn't wiped off or if multiple coats are applied the binder is too weak to hold the stain in place.

   The proper way to apply stain is to put on a good coat, let it sit for a short time (10 or 15 minutes for oil base, just a few minutes for waterborne), and then wipe off the excess. The stain should then be allowed to cure overnight if it is an oil stain, or for a couple of hours for a waterborne stain.

   It sounds like you put on way to much stain in an attempt to get the color you wanted (let me guess, the wife wanted one of those mocha or coffee colors), and overpowered the binder. There are other ways to get a dark color, but let's figure out what you did first.

                    Rob

    

1. 
   Dazed | Mar 18, 2008 06:06am | #2

   Hello Rob,Thanks for the quick response. You're right on. My wife did want it a very dark color. I tried to meet her wishes and applied the stain too thick.I am using Minwax Wood Finish Dark Walnut 2716 oil based stain, Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac (clear), and odorless mineral spirits.1.I did not wipe off the excess each time. I went for the darker color by applying more coats of stain.2.I did allow a lot of time between coats of stain. More than 72 hours. 3.I thinned the shellac with mineral spirits because I am a rank amateur:) To be honest, I didn't understand the difference between denatured alcohol and mineral spirits. I read somewhere that if you thin the stain and shellac they would be easier to work with. I now see that mineral spirits will take off the stain:)4.By rubbing the shellac with 0000 wool I thought that would take the nibs off before I applied the next coat.

   What do you think? Should we strip the piece and start again? How would you recommend getting a dark color?

   Thanks again.Dave

1. 
   user-83153 | Mar 18, 2008 06:49am | #3

   Dave,

   The up side of this is that you get to learn a couple of things through this mistake. Number one is ALWAYS test out your finishing schedule from beginning to end on a good size piece of scrap before you put anything on your project. Number two is come to Knots and ask questions beforehand if you are in doubt about something. There is so much knowledge here given away for free that it is unbelievable. Last but not least you learn some things about coloring wood and applying a topcoat.

   You have so much stain on the piece now that it will likely always be soft. So yeah, you're going to have to strip it all off. This time you should start with a water soluble dye in a dark color. Homestead Finishing sells a good product called transfast. http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransFastdyes.htm  the dye can be mixed in different strengths to get the color that you want. If you look closely at wood it is many different shades, what you are shooting for is to have the dye take the wood to the lightest color that you want in the wood when you are done. After the dye is dry apply a seal coat of shellac. When the shellac is dry you can use the stain you have, or get a dark gel stain, and use it as a glaze. Apply the stain, let it sit for a short time and then wipe off the excess. You will have to play around with different strengths of dye and possibly a second coat of glaze to get the color you want. This should work very well on oak as it has a lot of pores and open grain for the pigment to lodge in. After the glaze has cured you can proceed with your top coat. You don't say what you want your final coat to be, but it sure wouldn't hurt to use another coat of shellac to seal in the glaze no matter what you are going to use after that.

   If this isn't clear or you have further questions feel free to ask. Here is a piece I made, the white oak around the outside of the table is finished with a fairly light dye followed by a seal coat of shellac and then a dark walnut gel stain all topped with shellac and rubbed out with 0000 steel wool and wax for a less glossy finish. That should give you an idea of how dark you can get pretty easily. With a darker dye the color could be made much darker.

                        Rob

   
1. 
   Dazed | Mar 23, 2008 04:20am | #7

   Rob,Thanks for your very thorough answer. We are going to order the dye you suggested and completely restrip it. We will be sure to test a small area beforehand. I probably should of started with the night stand :) Next time we'll know.My wife is not really too excited about the prospect of us not having a dresser for another couple of months. But as you suggested this is probably the only way to save the project.Also, you built a really beautiful coffee table. Thanks again for your help.Best regards,Dave

2. 
   JamesS | Mar 18, 2008 08:40am | #4

   Dazed             Shellac should be cut with alcohol, not mineral spirits. The mineral

                          spirits probably activated the stain causing your problem.

   James

1. 
   9michael9 | Mar 18, 2008 11:38pm | #6

   You are correct James.

3. 
   9michael9 | Mar 18, 2008 11:36pm | #5

   That is the damnedest mess I've ever seen.  Strip it again because you have no other choice, and follow direction on the can.  Quit messing with shellac and use a rub on poly. Minwax makes the best poly product.