Hello again to all. I am looking for feedback on finding a good waterbased semi gloss & gloss polyurathane to spray with my conversion HVLP gun (compressor driven) the minwax, etc are too thick, any help would be appreciated, thanx again!!
Edited 8/24/2004 9:57 am ET by JIMSWOODWRKS
Replies
Almost any finish can be thinned to spraying consistancy. Let me recommend you get Charon's "Spray Finishing". It will give you all the info you need to select equipment, setup and adjust guns and tips and then how and when to thin the material being sprayed.
There are things you need to know and practise before committing to spraying your finish.
Emtech 8000, available from Homestead Finishing (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/index.htm)
JIMSWOODWRKS,
A 'good' water based finish?There's no such thing.
A 'good' polyurethane? Ditto.
Alan
The "Super-Clear Poly" from Target is also a good product; very tough stuff and very clear. Take a look at the different finishes they have; they also have a water-base lacquer that's nice if you don't need the durability of a polyurethane or conversion varnish.
What problems are you having spraying Polycrylic? It's not too great a finish, but in my experience it sprays okay.
Paul
Furniture Finish Wizard
Paul, thanx so much for your reply, I quess I am looking for a WB poly that is thinner than what i have been using making it easier to spray. On a large project, because the poly is so thick, it can drain my 5 horse 25 gal compressor & I have to wait for it to catch up, while waiting for the psi to catch up, the stuff I already sprayed dries & then I end up with a rought finish due to over spray when I spray again. I spray WB lacquers & that product is a dream. but when I want a more durable finish, of course I like poly. I have been thinking of buying a 4 stage turbine which then I don't think the viscosity would be an issue. I see the poly from Target is quite a bit more expensive too, what do you get for the add'l cost? Thanx again...
Edited 8/27/2004 10:18 am ET by JIMSWOODWRKS
"---getting a 4 stage turbine gun; then viscosity would not be an issue"
We bought a $1000.00 Capspray, 4 stage turbine set-up for use in our painting business. It sucks! Very finicky, high maintenance and extremely dependent on thinning to "proper" viscosity. Conversion set up is vastly superior. If you're having trouble with your conversion outfit, (IMHO) work it through and don't invest in turbine.
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Thanx Mack, Anyone else have feedback on the turbine vs compressor driven hvlp's? Thanx to all...
Edited 8/27/2004 1:27 pm ET by JIMSWOODWRKS
Jeff Jewitt's thoughts on the subject a couple of years ago. They may still be relavent.
QUOTE
I think turbines are fine for certain instances like portability, but I must tell you the hot air blown out of these things marketed as a "benefit" to finish flowout and cure is utter nonsense. In fact, the Turbinaire units I saw last weekend now offer a "heat-sink" wrap for the hose. If the hot air is so great, why offer it as an accessory.
A turbine gun is heavy, bulky and few have any control whatsoever over the spray pattern. I think if you have a compressor or are thinking of getting one, you'll get more bang for the buck with an HVLP conversion gun such as the Walcom or Asturo.
END QUOTE
With some of the newer conversion guns available now, I would go with a conversion gun set up.Howie.........
I also had a lot of trouble with my turbine outfit ... until I bought an Accuspray Ten gun. Now I am a HUGE fan!! IMO the Accuspray guns are much more advanced than any others in the turbine powered field. Check out Fuhr's finishes ... they are leaders in the water base field. I also like Star products. Don't let the Accuspray's unusual materials and look put you off ... they are tough, durable, trouble-free, amazingly versatile performers.
This is off the subject a little but if you like to use water base materials you should get to know Breakthrough (cross-linking acrylic). I have used that polycrylic and it is pretty much a zero in comparison. Breakthrough is really tough stuff (you MUST learn to thin it though ... it comes so thick you can stand a stir stick in the middle of the can ... I usually thin with 25% water... you have to stir and strain before each use too ... some of the components separate quickly after thinning).
Keep in mind that the Star products (and some of Fuhr's) are actually water borne polyurethanes (not at all like the low quality Minwax Polycrylic).
what brand have you been using? what type of gun?
I have used minwax polycrylic, valspar & some others, they seem to be all about the same, valspar is cheapest. The gun is a Devilbiss Finish Line gravity feed. About $200.00 I think I paid for it. Since I posted these requests, I have been thinking about hooking up both of my compressors to up the scfm output, I also have a pancake 2hp compressor that claims about 3 scfm, so this should boost my output . I will try it next time I have need to spray this poly. Thanx...
I have a PC gravity hvlp, and purchsed the Wagner conversion hvlp from gleem for $129. It runs fine off of my PC 3hp 4 gal pancake, also purchased the pressure pot which I use for large jobs. The pressure pot makes a huge difference on spraying large surfaces.
I use the Enduro line from compliant spray systems. they also have a conditioner and modifer to help with spraying applications which will extend the dry time of the top coat.
I have used the brands you have mentioned, and abandoned them. I have had to thin them and also have had to warm the finished in a water bath to get them to lay down well on some jobs.
is the pressure pot from wagner? How big is the pot? How large of a job are you using the pressure pot for? I am using the poly on individual pieces like tables, furniture, etc. How much does the retarder affect the dry time? thanx so much again.
I have a 2.5 g pot, they also sell a 2 qt pot, which would be fine for my use. The pots will work on any siphon or pressure fed pot, not gravity fed unless the mfg has a conversion. Check out gleempaint.com. I use the pressure pot on larger casework projects and when I have to spray the inside of a case. I use the 1 qt cup when I do smaller work.
The modifier, or retarder as you call it, is dependant on how much you use. I use it in stain as well as top coats, and add as much as I need thru trial and error up to the maximum recommended amount.
Edited 8/30/2004 2:57 pm ET by craig
thanx again
If your compressor is running out of air, you'll have to blame the spray gun, not the finish.
Your compressor supplies "X" amount of air, in cubic feet per minute (CFM). The higher the pressure, the lower the CFM. Your spray gun uses "Y" amount of air to atomize the finish. If your spray gun uses more air than your compressor supplies, you'll run out of air during long spray operations.
Instead of getting a turbine, I'd recommend getting a spray gun that uses less air. There are a number of guns that are classified as "LVLP" (low-volume, low pressure). Where HVLP (high-volume, low pressure) spray guns need larger volumes of air, in CFM, to atomize the finish, LVLP spray guns use less air volume. Some of these spray guns operate on a compressor as small as 1.5 HP, though the compressor will run a lot once the tank drains. On a larger compressor like the one you have, it takes a lot longer to drain the tank and the compressor runs less. The spray gun keeps working the entire time since the compressor always supplies enough air.
There have been some good discussions on spray systems in the past. One that sticks in my mind is at this link - http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=14477.1 . If you do a search for "which hvlp" or something similar, you'll find other discussions as well.
When it comes to cost, you'll find that the better brands are more expensive than the consumer brands. The benefits of these brands are greatly improved durability, clarity, and build. It takes fewer coats to get the same film build which means less finish used; in the end the cost is about the same but performance is a lot better. Target has a forum; it'd be interesting to see how they answer the cost question.
Paul
Furniture Finish Wizard
Edited 8/27/2004 7:19 pm ET by Paul S
Enduro poly & lacq. http://www.compliantspraysystems.com I use it with my conversion HVLP with excellent results.
Edited 8/25/2004 1:00 am ET by craig
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