Sorry to hear about death of Taunton Press and FWW
Just listened to the latest FWW podcast and was very dismayed to hear that Taunton Press has been purchased by Active Interest Media (AIM). AIM also owns Woodshop News, Popular Woodworking, and Woodsmith. I have subscribed to FWW for over 20 years and was a long-time subscriber to Fine Cooking, another great magazine that was destroy when Taunton sold it to Meredith. The layoffs have already started, and I feel bad for the people laid off. Hard to see how AIM is going to keep 3 woodworking magazines around for very long. At least one of them is going to have to be shut down. I received PWW for a long time, but it was clear that AIM was running it into the ground and it was not longer worth reading. Ben and Mike put on a brave face, but the writing is on the wall. Canceling my print and digital subscriptions for FWW. Hard times for print media, but FWW was one of the best.
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That's very sad to hear, I've subscribed since '92 (I also dropped Fine Cooking when they went downhill). Hedgefund manager/private equity firms are two things wrong with capitalism.
Also sad to hear this. I have all the print issues starting with No. 1, early 70's. I have really enjoyed this magazine and learned alot through numerous shops. Garages, old block buildings, and now a stand alone octagonal barn with 3 phase power and nice large tools not to mention lots of sq. ft.
This is very sad and disturbing news! Here's a proud and effective magazine that's done an outstanding job for decades. I too have issues from #1 (back when they were black and white) and was looking forward to many more. But now it looks like it's just a matter of time for it to go downhill and become like so many before it. If they did it for the money .... shame on them. There must have been someone who would have carried the torch.
How terribly sad.
I won't cancel my membership just yet. I want to support the FWW folks a little longer to delay the inevitable.
It's funny how these people we've never met have come to mean something to us. We trust their advice, laugh at their jokes (most of the time), and genuinely accept them as almost friends.
I have been part of small companies that got bought out. Sometimes it was a choice of survival for the smaller company. And although some people did lose their jobs, most folks were retained with improved opportunities.
Here's hoping the best for all our "friends" at Fine Woodworking.
I'm saddened, but I'm not canceling anything. If it becomes necessary I will. But it's only been a minute, and there is no decline to see. But I'll be watching.
Popular Woodworking was fantastic for maybe 20 years. Every issue had multiple articles that were must-read. But in a very short time it became useless to me. And all of the great website content became unusable.
I'm hoping the same doesn't happen to FWW. And if it does, someone good will take it over.
Let’s not pass the hat for nails until the coffin needs the lid.
Here’s a link to AIM’s official press release..
https://www.aimmedia.com/active-interest-media-acquires-taunton-press/
Well said, elmaduro. I'm not as critical as others on this thread about PWW's decline. I also think the market has room for all three of AIM's current woodworking publications. After all, why trust one source for info, designs, tool reviews, etc., when there are three sources (and even more if you take standalone forums into account)? Isn't more information better than less? As a wiser hear said, nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
I have subscribed to FW for years and have shelves filled with past issues. I have used the print and digital materials to learn a new technique and for inspiration on a design. That said I believe there has been a sharp decline in the quality of the magazine in recent years to the point that I will some times discard a more current issue. The magazine unfortunately has become mediocre and no longer provides the challenges it has provided in the past. Focusing too much on entry level woodworking to attract new subscribers has not worked out and has defiantly taken its toll on quality.
I've subscribed to just about every magazine over the years. I think part of what we perceive as decline, is that we have matured out of the need for a lot of the entry level articles. But a magazine just for experts won't survive. Not enough of a market.
I think some have been predicting a contraction in the whole area of interest in hobby woodworking as Boomers age out of the market. If true, not only will magazines go away, but eventually so will the shops that cater to us.
Stan[theman], I think your note about "maturing out of the need..." has articulated a 'feeling' I've had for a while about some of the content.
But i thought [and still think] it's more a sign of my own progress in WW.
And so, it's kind of a comforting thought.
So after lamenting the purchase of Taunton and the potential layoffs of employees, the first thing you do is cancel your subscription making the situation even worse? You've just shown AIM that the readership have no loyalty to the publication.
As issues are written many months before publication, you wouldn't see any impact to the magazine until well in to 2024. Maybe wait until the first few issues under AIM have been released before pulling the plug?
Thank you for expressing that, I agree
Very good point.
I save my FWW podcasts for commutes. As such, hadn't listened to it yet. It does make me anxious. FWW has been a staple for me as long as I can recall. My dad started subscribing not it its first year as a publication but shortly after that. As such, I've been reading it for a really long time. I hope a new owner doesn't screw it up. The thing is, I want a monthly magazine. Ideally, I want it to have a range of topics up to an including complex builds to inspire me. Kind of the way when I see things made in the annual printed issue of SAFPM. Time will tell. And yes, I watch a lot of YouTube videos so it's not like I'm stuck in the last century.
Finally had a chance to listen to the PodCast and hear the specifics. For now, I will be optimistic about the change. It was a fun podcast for sure. By the way, I was playing with Google AI last week. It can write Limericks, poems, and haikus. Could lead to fun things about woodworking.
I think it's premature to react so negatively to the news....for a couple of reasons:
First of all, having been involved in buyouts myself, it's not always bad news. Generally, good people and product are kept around. [Indeed, are often rewarded]. And from where I sit, the likes of Ben, Mike, Anisa fall into this category
Secondly, the product: FWW is in a different league from AIM's other holdings. I'm hopeful [and somewhat confident] that they know what they've got.
Thirdly, I'm always amazed at how many things these folks, particularly Mike and Ben, have their hands in: podcasts, the magazine, teaching courses and all the other content. And...they'll even return emails from strangers like me!
I'd like to think that AIM would do their best to facilitate, support, and help manage all the stuff these folks do in order to prevent their inevitable burnout. ;-)
-jr
As a hobbyist woodworker and FWW subscriber for a couple decades, and a part of the broadcasting business for a couple decades more, I’ve had some experience with media company takeovers…five in all. In short: Give it time. There’s a chance that AIM’s takeover could benefit FWW and us as well. My thumbs up/thumbs down experience has been about 50/50. If you like what FWW does, don’t cancel, but rather, renew!
As a former magazine editor, my heart goes out to Mike and the rest of the staff (I worked mostly in computer media). The last 30 years has been a continual death march for print and actually for a lot of websites as well. FWW is one of my all-time faves; the videos alone are worth the price.
I would just hope readers will be patient and not cancel prematurely. Often, magazine buyers have surprisingly poor knowledge of what they're buying and what they're going to do with it. It's possible AIM just bought it for the reader list, but it's also possible it fills a niche they don't have and actually want. I intend to keep my sub up until they prove it's not worth it. Also worth keeping an eye on where the talent goes: not just people like Mike and Ben, but the excellent contributors like Becksvoort and Van Dyke.
Very sorry to hear Amanda and Katie have been let go. Woodworking diversity with Shop Notes, Popular Woodworking and Fine Woodworking has been a challenge and now even more so. Active Interest Media (AIM): Seems your direction continues to market to white males like me and not encourage others in woodworking by examples of others that look like them. Please let the subscribers know that this consolidation comes with a commitment and the implementation of adding a more inclusive and diverse representation in the online, print and podcast content. Oh, and future profits may improve with market broadening to woodworkers.
49ak is spot on. If we focus woodworking on white males (also like me) the hobby won't grow. Adding Amanda (sorry, I don't know of Katie) was a smart move by FWW. Making her among the first layoffs struck me as a bonehead move.
It would be interesting to hear what the folks at LAP feel about it.
Why would that be of interest?
I would presume that anybody who values their opinion would find their opinion on the situation interesting.
So,, asking one publisher how they feel about another publisher changing ownership.
I'm just not sure how much insight that would provide but by all means, let your curiosity guide you.
The two editors at Lost Art Press are both formers editors at Popular Woodworking. They were both editors there before PopWood was taken over by the same hedge fund that just bought FWW. One was managing editor after Active Interest Media bought PopWood.
I imagine they both would have some great insights into the takeover. But I'm equally sure they wouldn't discuss them publicly.
FYI, Chris has written a fair bit about this topic in his blog over the years.
+1 W/R to female woodworkers. I have been very impressed by the work done be Larissa, Anissa, and Amanda. I encourage women that I meet at art and craft shows to try making things. Totally capable - and way more artistic than me.
Fine woodworking as an art form isn’t going anywhere! If the publication becomes online only so be it!
AIM itself was put in play 2 years ago. Appears the new and unknown B&W Communications are the new phantom owners and small fish gobblers..
ACTIVE INTEREST MEDIA ACQUIRED BY B&W COMMUNICATIONS LLC
2021-02-16
2
Boulder, CO – February 16, 2021: B&W Communications (“B&W”) today announced the acquisition of Active Interest Media (“AIM” or the “Company”), a leading creator of content, events, and multimedia experiences for consumers and businesses in the boating, shelter, hobby, and home arts categories. B&W is a newly formed company launched by Andrew Clurman, the longtime CEO/President and co-founder of AIM. With this transaction, Clurman and his fellow investors are purchasing 100 percent of AIM’s outstanding stock from Wind Point Partners, a Chicago-based private equity firm.
Going forward, the Company will continue to be known as Active Interest Media. Its divisions include the Marine, Home, Home Arts, and Collectibles Groups, with marquee brands such as Power & Motoryacht, Old House Journal, Writer’s Digest, Log Home Living, Popular Woodworking, Horticulture, Cuisine at Home and more.
“My partners and I are thrilled to be forging a new path for the brands and organization that our team has nurtured to category-leading positions with Wind Point’s support,” said Clurman. “We intend to accelerate the work of reinvention and product development creating world-class content for our customers while innovating new ways to engage with them. Whether through virtual events, new interactive experiences, or services that make it easier for them to pilot a boat, grow a garden, or restore a historic home.” Paul Peterson, Managing Director at Wind point, added “We’re very pleased to see AIM continue on the path we’ve supported for many years of innovating the business under Andy and team’s leadership.”
AIM will continue to be headquartered in Boulder, Colorado, with offices for the Home and Marine Groups in Des Moines, Cincinnati, Stevens Point (WI), Essex (CT), and Fort Lauderdale. Division presidents Gary DeSanctis and Peter Miller will continue in their respective roles supported by AIM’s existing leadership team and staff. AIM Founder Efrem Zimbalist III has stepped away as AIM Chairman and will remain as an advisor and Chairman Emeritus.
About B&W Communication LLC.
B&W otherwise known as Betterment & Wonderment Communications LLC is a newly formed Colorado based company created to acquire and better enthusiast media brands.
About Active Interest Media, Inc.
One of the world’s leading participant media companies, Active Interest Media (aimmedia.com) produces consumer and trade events, websites, magazines, podcasts, and TV shows that reach 40+ million readers, fans, and attendees in 85 countries. Our brands include Anglers Journal, Yachts International, Sail, Power & Motoryacht, Yachts International, Soundings, Trade Only, Passagemaker, Woodshop News, Log Home Living, Old House Journal, Woodsmith, Garden Gate, Cuisine at Home, Writer’s Digest, Horticulture, Popular Woodworking, Numismatic News, and more. The company’s four divisions—the Home Group, Home Arts, Collectibles and Marine Group—also operate thriving B2B platforms, online universities, retail events and marketing services (through our in-house agency, Catapult Creative Labs). Active Interest Media’s customers are smart, engaged, and loyal, and they look to our brands for trustworthy information and services that will inspire and enable them to enjoy their passions.
Efrem Zimbalist III?
That name does kinda stick out, especially for those that grew up hearing the credits for the FBI TV show. Wikipedia has entries on papa (the actor) and grandpa (the violinist).
Efrem Zimbalist (1889–1985), Russian violinist, father of Efrem Jr.
Efrem Zimbalist Jr. (1918–2014), American actor, son of Efrem and father of Stephanie [Remmington
Steele] [And father of EZ 3rd ]
I'll take a Wait and See approach, letting my subscription re-up for one more year. If they give me cause I'll bail out. If not, I'll hang in. Truth be told it doesn't make my top ten list of things to deal with right now.
I don’t understand the diversity comments. I personally don’t look at the names of authors when I read articles. I look at what the content of the article is and what it’s about. I couldn’t care less if the writer is male or female. Are we saying that there are females and African Americans that are submitting articles and are being denied because of gender and race? How are races determined by seeing a person’s name?
Historically the common woodworkers were male. Maloof, Moser, Chippendale, Krenov, etc. to name a few. This was probably true because it was difficult to work with existing tools. With the advent of new tools, and especially CNC, there will be more opportunities for creativity that are not curtailed by brute strength. So in terms of diversity, all I see are different names on the title page while I read, understand, and learn from the creative process that went into finished product.
Roughly 50% of peoples in the USA are women. A large number of them are perfectly capable of being woodworkers. But misogyny has been a controlling factor NOT "brute strength" as you suggest.
Power tools, sharp tools and some 'smarts' allow many men with less strength to do wonderful work; women too. If we'd recognize many women as being completely capable (as FWW had started to do) we'd be better for it.
Check out The ApprenticeShop in Rockland Maine. They have many, many women building boats big and small, slinging large pieces of heavy oak, running planers and jointers, scrapers, draw knives, driving seam caulk, peening copper rivits and so much more. Their output is every bit as competent as their male workmates.
On a related topic, I very much enjoyed Joinery, Joists, and Gender, by Deirdre Visser.
How does FWW recognize women. I assume by printing articles submitted by women? How do we know that women are being denied article submission.
I've warned the crowd once. Keep it on the original topic. Last time I'm saying it.
Who cares as long as the contributor is talented enough? There is no organized effort to exclude women get off it!!
I'm a great deal larger than Anissa Kapsales. If you had a lot of very large rocks to move around you should definitely pick me on your team first. Give us both a box of hand tools and some tasks, you'd be crazy not to pick her.
Brute strength matters not at all in woodworking. If it takes that much effort, it's time to sharpen.
Ok folks. This has wandered well off topic. Let's wrap this end of it up.
I noticed a few weeks ago one of the guys on Woodsmith was on the FWW podcast. Or the other way. Thought at that time something was happening with the magazines.
We've been on each other's shows many times before. That had nothing to do with anything.
Thanks Ben. Didn't realize that.
I just researched a charge from "Omeda" which, long story short, got my CC Number from Taunton and used it to stiff me with the highest "auto renewal" (never signed up for that!) rate for one year possible. If that is the future, then count me as a former subscriber. I'll give it a chance, but after this scam, they are on a short leash. Shame on Taunton for, if they had to, selling out to a low class outfit.
Omeda is our provider for magazine and digital fulfillment and have been handling our charges for over a year now. If you didn't sign up for a subscription, you should reach out to customer service, cancel, and get a refund.
Thanks Ben...i used my CC originally to renew my subscription for three years. That seems to be how they got my CC Number. To the best of my knowledge i never received one of those little letters saying my subscription was due to expire, and here are the options. I would typically renew for three years (the max) in order to lock in the price. Instead, Omeda went ahead and hit me for a one year at the highest possible price. Just poor treatment is all i am saying. There typically was something "personal" about FWW/FHB et al....that seems to have gone away. I am now in the buyer beware camp, and thinking i should cancel my one year (will i get a full refund of the $39.95?), then renew for three years. But now the content/quality/ character of the publication has to be in question. I know YOU don't want it to change, and I don't want it to change, but we both know how our wishes and hopes are sometimes dashed when events of this nature occur. Fair enough?
FYI folks. I'm gonna start deleting comments of an insulting nature about any staffers or other forum members. I used to leave things up so people could wave there "look at me and how smart I am" flag if they wanted to. No longer, it just breeds toxicity and I don't have time for it.
Good move, Ben. The sort of folks who make such comments are using this forum like the inebriated gentlemen who leans on a streetlamp post: for support, not illumination.
I sold a house and packed up my shop, and am traveling full time for the next year. Wound up tossing several years worth of FWW magazines, but boxed and stored all the old black and white issues. Paged through them and couldn’t let go of them, such rich content.
With no fixed address, swapped my print subscription for the all access digital only and love it so far. I’ve been looking at articles back to the 1980’s on dining tables ahead of a design and build of a table for a family member. This magazine is still a rich resource, I will stick with it as long as they keep the doors open.
Unless AIM has a vendetta against woodworkers I assume they feel that they can make money from the magazines that Taunton publishes. It's easy to guess what will happen but no one really knows. Two things about woodworking magazines today... One is that none of them really is what they used to be but that is partly because many woodworkers have seen articles on the same topics over decades. Those of us who have been woodworkers since the 70's, 80's, and 90's just don't need the basics anymore. The other magazines have been deteriorating for at least the last 20 years and really can provide very little useful information in each issue. Part of what makes FWW valuable to me is the fact that, with Unlimited, I have access to everything. When I need a resource on a woodworking technique or a process I can look it up and FWW's archives have something useful. So, for me, as long I have access to that archives at a somewhat reasonable price, the magazine's current issues aren't so much the issue. However, it remains to be seen whether the new owners will maintain that "somewhat reasonable" price or jack it up high enough to make it not worth it. I assume that AIM feels that there is enough value in the woodworking and other components of Taunton or they wouldn't have bought it. Now, if they don't maintain its current quality and value or it decreases, they will soon notice a significant drop in subscriptions. Mediocrity is available on YouTube and all over the internet for no cost.
Hi everybody, Liz here, copy editor and production manager for FWW for the past 18 years. We're still working over here, so don't write our obit yet. We've lost key people and we're really sad about that but we're still here, trying to produce the best woodworking magazine in the country and giving it our solid best. We will be working within the structure that we have available to us, but our commitment is to Fine Woodworking and its readers, and believe me, it means as much or more to us as it does to you. We've had layoffs before. We've had adversity. We won't go down without a solid effort.
Thank you Liz.
Indeed. Thank you for fighting the good fight.
Thank you Liz, keep up the great work .
Will FWW stay in Connecticut? I hope so!
As long as it keeps attracting top woodworkers to write articles, and as long as the photography and layout stays at the level it's been on for many years, FWW can change while still remaining the best.
“The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.” Mark Twain
I just listened to the podcast yesterday while working in my shop. I felt sad about it, and disappointed about some of the reorganization mentioned. That said, I am retired from a work world where these things happen. Sometimes the outcome can be viewed later in hindsight as excellent, and sometimes not.
I have come around to feeling hopeful. I've subscribed to FWW since the 1980's without missing an issue. I've got a few issues of other titles in my print collection as well, from single issue gotta-have-this purchases or short-lived subscriptions. FWW in my mind was and is the top publication. I will not be canceling anything. I subscribe both digitally and in print, have taken online classes, and regularly listen to or watch the podcast as well. I eagerly await everything that comes out of the FWW crew. You have my support. Please continue the fantastic work and don't let this change take down a great publication and platform.
Thirty years or so ago I discovered Fine Woodworking and it has been my inspiration and teacher for all those years. I especially loved any article by Tage Frid and he was and still is my hero. I have spent many happy hours at my workbench with an issue laid out studying and learning. I hope it continues to be an inspiration to the new woodworkers coming along. It is an art that needs to be kept alive.
I just heard the art of the last Shop Talk Live where Ben talked about the acquisition of Taunton by AIM. The interest in digitalizing the magazine as a choice instead of the print version interested me. For at least a couple of years I have decided that I prefer to read my FWW and others online. It isn't a good experience on my iPhone but on a computer with a decent sized screen or even an iPad it is actually a very satisfying experience. I can read in low or no light and it gives me more opportunities to read and, therefore, more time to digest what I read. So, that's one change that would be welcome for me. With printing costs rising (postage, paper, ink, and printing services) it makes sense and I have wondered for quite some time why FWW doesn't offer that as a viable option with either a discount or a lower price than the print version. For existing subscribers there is no choice that would result in a price below print.
Agreed completely. I no longer keep the paper versions at all. I just don't have the space. But I have every issue saved for use on my tablet.
I get the magazine and Unlimited but I'm the opposite, I would much rather read off paper than a screen. And if I'm trying one of the more ambitious projects I can have the magazine on the bench for reference when I need it. Doesn't matter if it gets dirty or a page folded. It would destroy my laptop.
My only point was that the option to get only an electronic version should be available; probably at a lower price for those of us who don't wish to have the print copy.It seems as if new subscribers have that option but not existing subscribers; and at a reduced price. The whole world is oriented to gaining new customers and none of the benefits accrue or are available to existing customers; even those who have been loyal for many decades. Cell phone companies and streaming companies all feel that new customers are more important than existing. Maybe this would be the time to reward existing customers also.
A digital only version of the magazine has been available for years. I subscribed to the print magazine in the early 80's and then eventually switched to the digital only option. I pay about 35 bucks a year for it and download the latest issue to iPad every 2 months.
This is not good news, and layoffs are an indicator of what's to come. They massacred Popular Woodworking and don't even maintain site links. Woodsmith is using AI-generated crap articles, like this "review" of no-name crap chisels. https://www.woodsmith.com/review/best-chisels-for-woodworking/
I followed your link. Oh, no! FWW must not go in that direction.
Yes, indeed. I learned this nugget of wisdom: "Artists and professional carpenters suggest using well-functioning wood chisels for impactful wood carving."
They reviewed 8 chisel sets, none of them Stanley, Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Narex, Two Cherries, Buck or any common names I'm familiar with. So yeah, AIM, don't do that to FWW or you'll have turned gold into dross.
The world changes. In the 70's, when I was in my 20's, a remarkable new woodworking magazine was born and I subscribed starting with issue #1 and it has been a wonderful source of learning and inspiration for me and many others. It has been the primary driver of my growth as a woodworker over a half century. Amazing.
I "subscribe" to both the print and digital offerings.
Where it goes from here is actually pretty simple for me. My "subscription" is nothing more than a very convenient and pleasurable conduit to outstanding teachers of the craft. It will be clear in short order whether the newly constituted FWW magazine can retain these fine men and women who are staff and/or contributors---Pekovich, Gouchenour, Van Dyke, Kaspern, Becksvoort, Hack, Fortune, Rogowski, to name a handful of my favorites---or whether they start drifting away. If that happens, it's been a great run. Until then, I'm not going anywhere.
Hear Hear!!!
My joy at finally having a new machine after three weeks waiting for replacement for my unrepairable desktop is very much lessened. I missed a lot during those lost weeks and I am sorely distressed now to learn that something else that kept me happy in my later years might also be in danger. All I can hope is that FWW remains as good as always, good people there survive the transition, and life can continue in a positive direction.
It's possible to replace a broken computer, but in my mind I can't imagine anything replacing FineWoodworking!
Best of luck to everyone there!
The woodworking talent that makes up FW will want to do something. Maybe we will see more of what McLaughlin and Cosman are doing: providing content on their own whether it be through online classes and/or YouTube. Video can be better than written material in many ways.
FWW magazine pushed me to be a better woodworker. Over the years some of the articles seemed to be way over my head. Maybe I became a better woodworker and maybe I just finally got the courage to try something complicated to me. Some of the articles that seemed impossible at the time I read over and over but passed them by until one day I would say "I can do that...and did it"! Regardless...the magazine did give me the knowledge to learn and explore. Hope it continues to inspire others.
We really needed FW to exist separately and not as part of a conglomerate of other, lesser magazines. The decline, for me, is when FW picked up writers from other failed/failing magazines. The mode of delivery doesn't matter much to me, print or web, but who is and isn't writing content most certainly does. Summary -- if I wanted to read content from writers most closely associated with Popular Woodworking then I would have subscribed to that magazine in the first place.
The name of the magazine is Fine Woodworking, not Easy Woodworking. It used to be aspirational.
The longest thread for FWW by far! I will add that FWW readers have always demanded high standards for what is arguably the flagship woodworking magazine for N. America, if not globally. I will not arbitrarily drop my subscription because the pursuit of quality deserves steadfast support.
I just turned 70 and so I have more time to spend doing what I want to do. My interests now are woodworking and I am trying to read classic literature. I'm just trying to slow down. Mostly I use FW with my tablet and headphones at 2 am when I wake up from insomnia and don't want to disturb anyone. I also use FW out in the woodshop on my tablet. I don't use it too often at my desk on the big computer.
I find I do not use or read the printed FW magazines. I do very much value the videos and all the woodworkers who do the videos. I think they are all good. I was personally interested in learning carving and I particularly like Micheal Cullen's video series on bandsawn boxes and surface carving.
I watched his bandsawn boxes series at least a dozen times. It was like I had to hear every single sentence he spoke multiple times before I finally really absorbed it in my cells.
I recently met my sister and brother in law in Asheville for a dinner and gave her a bandsawn box for Christmas. I know she was impressed. It was impressive box even if I do say so myself and that felt good.
Also, I would pay more for an ad-free experience and a highly structured and carefully curated website. It would be nice if I could bookmark videos and articles and make my own notes on those videos and articles. It would be nice if I could launch programs like cutlistplus and attach cutlists to project articles. In other words, it would be nice if I didn't have to keep magazines and notes scattered around in several places. Sincerely, Roger