Replies

1. 
   JerryPacMan | Jun 27, 2008 04:39pm | #1

   I think that is a good sign, manufacturing returning to the USA.  I think we will see more of this as fuel prices continue to rise.  Container shipping from China has gone up to $8000 from $3000 per container.

    

   Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .

   "Life is not a success only journey."  Dr. Phil

2. 
   oldusty | Jun 27, 2008 04:56pm | #2

            Bob ,

              I also caught that news break , it is refreshing to hear about anyone profiting as the result of higher shipping costs from C###a , indeed .

        I think the firm was back in the High Point area of NC, which is where many of the industry furniture shows are held and many designers are in the area.

     They said something like the pieces went up 5 times the price , not sure if just shipping went up 5 X or it effected the entire cost of pieces 5 X .

     So now the poor designers that were sending work overseas and basically taking away work and jobs from the states are being forced to buy American . I say shame on them for bypassing the factories and shops in their own back yards while helping to contribute to the dismal economy we are facing .

    We can only hope that other products (plywood) will also be effected and with some luck price themselves out of the market place .Will we the U.S. be able to fire up our mills and factories to once again be the competitive and prosperous producers we have been ?

     The furniture industry and factories have been shrinking in this down market , but if now instead of lowering prices to compete with ferin countries wouldn't it be a welcome change to ride this high all the way to the bank.

                   dusty, the hopeful

1. 
   BCD1104 | Jun 27, 2008 08:37pm | #3

   Dusty,

   I am afraid you have made a huge error in your post.

   "So now the poor designers that were sending work overseas and basically taking away work and jobs from the states are being forced to buy American . I say shame on them for bypassing the factories and shops in their own back yards while helping to contribute to the dismal economy we are facing ."

   Designers work for manufacturers who have moved their operations overseas.  The manufacturers have made this move, not the designers.  From what I know, most designers would prefer manufacturing to be done stateside.  From a design aspect, it is much easier to clarify a detail when speaking English, and while dealing with someone who reads the drawing the same way (for what ever reason many Chinese read drawing differently).

   I don't know where you got your information, but Designers are not the reason for furniture manufactures moving overseas.

   Brent

1. 
   saschafer | Jun 27, 2008 09:16pm | #4

   "for what ever reason many Chinese read drawing differently"

   I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but there are two standards for representing a three-dimensional object in a two-dimensional drawing, first-angle projection and third-angle projection.

   In the US, third-angle projection is almost universal, while in the rest of the world, first-angle projection is widespread (especially Europe and Japan; I don't know about China). Looking at a drawing that was made to one standard and interpreting it as if it were made to the other standard can be massively confusing.

   -Steve

    

2. 
   oldusty | Jun 28, 2008 02:30am | #6

   Hi Brent ,

             The bottom line is cost , regardless of where it comes from .

      I have been in the furniture and cabinet business for over 25 years and have seen many trends and an ever changing market .

          I said the designers are sending work overseas not designers are sending factories over .I said shame on them for bypassing factories and shops in their own back yards , do you think that contributes to local jobs ?

         It is a fact that factories have designers working for them and it is also a fact that there is a huge number of independent Designers and reps looking to make   deals .

       The information I got was the same as Bob in the original post of this thread , the news reported local designers could no longer save money by having their pieces made in C###a . The term and number of five times the cost in shipping , they said they could not sell the piece for that much more .

      I realize many U.S. owned companies have plants in various countries and that not all product coming to us from these overseas plants are made by foreign owned money.

        As far as being easier to communicate with someone that speaks the same English , my answer to that is, sometimes yes and sometimes no .

      

   So ,know it or not designers as well as  Cabinet/  furniture  business's can and have been getting custom work for quite some time from over there but perhaps with this fuel / transportation sur charge if you will we can keep our price edge while earning a living (yeah right) .

           regards    dusty

2. 
   Tinkerer3 | Jun 29, 2008 07:58am | #13

   Don't blame the poor designers, they are probably just employees who haven't been fired yet.  And as for businesses, they always operate on the principle of maximize profit and minimize loss.  A business which had to raise prices to stay alive when all the others lowered theirs is not going to sell much and will ultimately fail.  Better for them to join the pact and stay alive.

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 30, 2008 01:45pm | #14

   And it keeps getting better too!

   According to me e-letter from Poppular Woodworking, Delta has announced that they will be manufacturing and assembling a new version of their venerable Unisaw in a new updated plant in Jackson, Tenn.  It will have beefier trunnions and riving knife.  Might steal a peek at the IWF show in Atlanta in August.

   Rising fuel costs were cited as a major reason for the shift.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   oldusty | Jun 30, 2008 04:58pm | #15

   Morning Bob ,

             Are we sure that Jackson , Tenn. is not a province of China ?

                   Remember Japan had a city named Usa , and back in the day they printed made in USA on items , when it meant quality was to be expected , not a cheap imitation .

             dusty, er soon to be

1. 
   saschafer | Jun 30, 2008 06:00pm | #16

   That's an urban legend, with no factual basis: http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/usa.asp

   -Steve

    

3. 
   cigarmike | Jun 27, 2008 09:52pm | #5

   Recently read an article on Bob Timberlake and the furniture line that he has lent his name to. It has been a very profitable line of furniture for the firm (can't think of the firms' right now). The furniture company wanted to move part of the production of his name-sake furniture to a Pacific rim company for production, but Bob got together with the former plant manager of one of the closed factories in his hometown of Lexington, NC to start a company manufacturing this furniture. They employed some of the same former workers from that factory to produce the items. Seems Bob was going to take away his endorsement of this furniture if it was moved off-shore. You can figure the rest. Since it was one of the most popular and profitable lines of furniture, they gave the OK to make it here. On USA soil.

   I could only say-good for them. Wish we had more of this kind of attitude here.

4. 
   oldusty | Jun 28, 2008 02:32am | #7

   Hiya Wineman ,

            The reason we are being chosen is stricktly cost , no warm fuzzies here .

                      dusty , the realist

5. 
   willy | Jun 28, 2008 02:34am | #8

   and watch for price increases at the big box stores that import most of their product from China. Shipping costs are skyrocketing and the consumer will pay the price.

6. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 28, 2008 01:57pm | #9

   ‘we’ as in woodworkers in general

   Methinks dusty answered it best - cost.  I for one would rather spend my money on quality as opposed to shipping costs.

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/28/2008 6:58 am ET by KiddervilleAcres

1. 
   Metod | Jun 28, 2008 04:20pm | #10

   Bob,The cost is certainly a significant factor in how people spend their 'disposable' income (there is quite plenty of it - of course not for many). I believe that the 'cultural level/formation' has a major influence in how such income is spent. Just study the ads (content - what they advertise, form - how they advertise) and you'll gain much insight into those to whom the ads speak (successfully). The ads packages that typically come with the Sunday paper form their own mini-course on the psychology of the consumers. The same goes for the ads in woodworking magazines - come up with your own adjectives (we need to watch our vocabulary here...).Hey, let's pull out all stops, pick a catalog, and 'discuss' the merchandise it offers. I'd prefer to see that some 'woodworkers' would take their money to a competent craftsman/woman and order a piece (or more) instead of spending it on gizmos, and remaining too inept to use them.

   Best wishes,
   Metod

1. 
   dkellernc | Jun 28, 2008 05:47pm | #11

   Here's an article detailing the dispute between Bob Timberlake (the designer) and Lexington (the manufacturer).  The outcome of this lawsuit will no doubt have some far-reaching effects on how much control a designer has on where/how his/her products are exploited.  In my view, it would be a real shame to for this court case to go the way of Lexington.  Were I designing furntiure for profit, having my name involuntarily attached to a very cheaply manufactured product consisting mostly of "termite barf" (MDF) and thin veneer would be most upsetting.

   http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20080619/NEWS/900165232/1005

1. 
   chaim | Jun 28, 2008 09:58pm | #12

   I too am worried about globalization. There are a lot of really attractive short term benefits though that make it hard to pass up.

   The other hand is the long term affects (none really positive that I can see)

   Short terms, are cheaply made goods, helping others help themselves, good relations, cash flow and foreign trade!

   Long term are lack of  manufacturing jobs, Lack of quality control, distribution of vital technology, and I suppose on the upside new jobs and industries (we just don't know what yet) 

   Maybe its a lack of faith on my part but in every country there are those that are capable intellectual and those that are not so capable. the less qualified usually find jobs in manufacturing industries and menial positions. these jobs would be lost! and my fear is that the already heavy burden on society would increase because of lack of occupation. Do we need another FDR to create employment for out of work Americans (this holds true for every country Even china)  

   Sorry for the rant!

   ChaimMake your own mistakes not someone elses, this is a good way to be original !