Replies

1. 
   Scott_Frankland | Feb 25, 2002 07:29pm | #1

   *
   Ed the way I have seen it done is to cut a dado across the panel. Then chisel out a dovetail 1" - 2" in from the end. See the attached picture to get a better idea.

   Scott

1. 
   Ed_ | Feb 25, 2002 09:51pm | #2

   *That looks like a neat idea for a draw runnerThanks

1. 
   ben_malamed | Feb 26, 2002 03:38pm | #3

   *The through dovetail is slightly easier than the stopped since you can do more sawing before you take out the chisel. But basically you need a saw (dovetail, tenon, or similar small saw), chisels, straightedge and an angle gauge. You make the angle gauge from wood scrap.First of all, make sure neither piece is cupped. If they are your attempts will be futile. Lay out the lines on the female piece. (You can also do it the other way around.) The width between lines will be the width of the root of the male part. The taper does not have to be a lot but you definitely need some so the joint doesn't lock up during glue up. It's also easier to fit. Saw vertically and remove most of the waste. I have tried to saw along the final, sloped line but I don't get a good fit that way. To get a good fit I take a piece of scrap wood and make a 7 degree, plus or minus, bevel on one edge. This will jig your chisel when you remove the triangular piece of wood that remains.When you have a nice clean groove (or dado) carefully measure and transfer the dimensions to the male part. Be a little generous since it's better to make it a little oversize and trim than it is to have to shim it out. Cut the shoulders of the male part and use the same angle block to jig the chisel to remove triangular portion from the dovetail. There is also a special dovetail plane that can cut the male part but I haven't seen one for sale for years. (Alternately, you could make one).Now comes the tricky part, fitting it up. You have to carefully trim the excess to get a good fit. The taper gets you pretty close anyway. I sometimes mark one piece with a soft pencil and fit them together. The pencil marks transfer to the other piece and tell me where to trim.Obviously, the longer the joint, the more difficult it is. Try a 2 inch or 3 inch long test piece. You'll find it doesn't take too long to get good at it.

1. 
   erik_andersen | Feb 26, 2002 09:40pm | #4

   *Forgive me for asking this if it seems a ridiculous question, but why in the world would you want to make sliding dovetails by hand? You can do the female portion AND the male portion quickly and accurately with a router or shaper.

1. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Feb 26, 2002 09:50pm | #5

   *Erik,Why not? Stanley made a plane for this operation; the #444. The sliding dove tail was not "invented" after the router...Many here do a considerable amount of handwork. Some call it "wood working"...b ;-)Dano

2. 
   Dave_Arbuckle | Feb 26, 2002 10:20pm | #6

   *My "Winter" project is a half-scale serpentine front Bombe' chest. Aside from major stock dimensioning, all the work is by hand, and if I can get away with it, no sandpaper will be used also.Why? Because it's FUN! I already know how to do all that stuff with machines...Dano, isn't the #444 the one that Hack had, uh, less than complimentary things to say about in his planes book? I think I recall a statement about his remaining in "nearly unused" condition. ;-)Dave(Winter in quotes because I think it will take more than just Winter)

3. 
   Scott_Frankland | Feb 26, 2002 10:53pm | #7

   *Dave you are right, it is supposed to be a real pain to setup.Eric most people will pay a lot more for hand work then machine work. No two pieces of hand cut joinier will never look the same and it is those subtle differences that make a piece a true one of a kind.Scott

4. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Feb 26, 2002 11:00pm | #8

   *Dave,I think you have him confused with Pat Leach, as I recall Pat calls 'em "knuckle busters" or something of that nature. Hack's complaint seems to be centered around it's "awkwardness". At the same time he does say, "Before the days of mechanical routers, it was the best tool to cut this difficlut joint accurately..."( i The HANDPLANE Book by Garret Hack, The Taunton Press, pg. 140, copyright 1999 by The Taunton Press, Inc.) While I don't own one, years ago in my training I did use it a lot. Persoanlly, I found the #55 much more "fussy" to set up than the #444. I have fairly small hands so I don't recall it as being a "knuckle buster."I did own a #55 but, got rid of it several years ago. It got replaced with a #45 which is much easier to set up and use than the #55 and every bit as versitile, IMO.Dano

5. 
   Dave_Arbuckle | Feb 26, 2002 11:54pm | #9

   *Oh good Heavens. So I sez to myself, "maybe you need to check out a #444, Dave". Knowing that Martin Donnelly doesn't have the lowest prices on Earth, but still I check.It appears he does have one, with one of the four cutters, for the mere price of $1,085. One with a full set of replica cutters, $1,435. Complete original collector pieces in the $2,250 range.LOL, I do believe I'll have to explore other methods......Dave

6. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Feb 27, 2002 01:22am | #10

   *Dave,Hack mentions that he only paid $150 for his and it won't see much use either, maybe he'll cut you a deal.b ;-)Dano

7. 
   vanderpooch_ | Feb 27, 2002 07:49am | #11

   *dave, ulmia and ece both make a dedicated plane for cutting the male portion of the joint. if you have made a plane before, i would think this would be fairly easy, just a modified rabbet plane. as for the groove, i recall seeing in the "toolbox book" where a guy plowed the groove square, then did the angle with a side rabbet by eye. with a little practice, i would think it fairly possible. worth checking out, especially if you have or are wanting a side rabbet plane. at least i'm always looking fo a good excuse..... let us know what you decide

8. 
   Ed_ | Feb 27, 2002 05:51pm | #12

   *Well thanks for your thoughts all.. and YES I do like to do my joinery by hand if its not TOOOO much of a hassle. I hate routers because of the NOISE and DUST. Though I do have 2 of them because they are useful. I have the Gary Hack plane book and am a big fan ofo planes now (habit forming). I have a leigh dovetail jig that sits under my tablesaw for the last 7-8yrs , Makes great MACHINE LOOK dovetails (ZZZZ). I prefer to master the handcut dovetail, just got my Independence saw NICE. I think I will go with the short sliding dovetail/dado joint. for shelve/drawer support. Oh yeah I am sick of sandpaper too (cough). Try a scraper you power tool guys! :o)

9. 
   Dave_Arbuckle | Feb 27, 2002 06:46pm | #13

   *I also would like to thank you all, especially you Ed for starting the discussion. Please forgive a bit of one-upmanship, I not only have that Leigh jig, I teach classes on using it.... ;-)Dave

10. 
    Ed_ | Feb 27, 2002 07:21pm | #14

    *Dave, we need a class on figuring out the owners manual..LOL It will be handy someday when I do a blanket chest with the WIDE row of dovetails.