Replies

1. 
   jackplane | Dec 12, 2003 06:40pm | #1

   Looks like a candidate for a recessed piano hinge.

2. 
   AlanTurner | Dec 12, 2003 06:41pm | #2

   Can't tell from the pix, but there may be a structural top, which is dovetailed to the sides.  If so, then actaul top can be screwed.  If the top that one sees is the only top, then M&T would be the answer.  As to wood movement, the top and sides all have the grain running in the same direction, so it should all move together.

   Have fun; looks like an interesting, and quite doable, project.

   Alan

3. 
   RMillard | Dec 12, 2003 06:43pm | #3

   It almost looks like there is a molding attached to the ends, because I think I can see the faint outline of endgrain showing on the top, but this seems an odd arrangement , so I must be wrong.

   A bare faced sliding dovetail is the best way to join the top. These can be a pain to make. Here is the best way I have found. Cut the tapered part in the top with a straight bit in the router. Then using a dovetail bit, make the bare faced section at 90 degrees to the back edge. Without changing the depth of the set up, route the bare faced part on the desks side board. This will require a router table or something clamped on the side to provide a bearing surface for the router base. The using a rabbet plane fitted with a fence, carefully plane the uncut side of the desk side, to a taper, until the pieces nearly go all the way together, maybe stopping about ½ inch from being driven fully home with hand pressure alone. This is why these are difficult joints to cut because the margin between being too tight that you can’t get them apart in the fitting stage and too loose to provide a good finished joint is quite small. I cut the joints in such a way that I use the rabbet plane on the inside of the desks side, so that any minor tearout won’t be as visible. Since the grain in the top and sides run the same way, wood movement is not a problem. If this did not make any sense ( and I doubt that it did), I'll try to make a drawing that will explain it more clearly.

                                              Rob Millard

1. 
   jazzdogg | Dec 12, 2003 10:54pm | #6

   Rob,

   Can you recommend some good sources of drawings/construction details? I'm designing a piece, using a Goddard and Townsend Desk & Bookcase as a starting point (page 264, of Jeffrey Greene's "American Furniture of the 18th Century), and find myself craving additional information. I'll start squaring lumber for this project in January.

   Thanks,PaulWhether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   RMillard | Dec 13, 2003 02:32am | #7

   Paul,

   I guess from your question, that you are not planning a true reproduction, but interpretation., if I’m wrong ,below is a list of some books that may help, if you can find them.

   The Goddard- Townsend furniture is quite consistent in its construction since they worked in a more or less closed community. Unfortunately the best source of information on their work is contained in a long out of print and extremely expensive book titled Master Craftsman of Newport, The Townsends and Goddards. I sold my copy on Ebay a few months back for $800.00 which to be honest was less than I hoped for, since online dealers list it for nearly twice that amount. There are excellent photos of the shells and other construction details in the May 1982 issue of the Magazine Antiques, and these are commonly available on Ebay, at reasonable prices. There is another book that has in it, a similar piece, titled American Case Furniture, in the Mabel Brady Garvan and Other Collections at Yale, by Gerald W.R. Ward. This book is available from Spencer Marks for about $80.00, but I wouldn’t run out and buy it, because it gives basically the same structural descriptions as the Greene book. There is a measured drawing of a similar piece in a book Titled Masterpieces of Furniture by Verna Cook Salomonsky. This book was first published in 1931 and was reprinted by Dover in 1953, while not a rare or expensive book, it may not be readily available. If you want to contact me ( use the email feature on this site) with your address, I’d be glad to send you a photo copy of the drawing, but I must tell you it is not the best, but better than scaling the original from a photo. One final source I can think of is a book titled American Furniture in the Metropolitan Museum of Art by Morrison H. Heckscher. Here again this book is out of print and give more of less the same information as the Greene book. These are all I could think of off the top of my head ( what a weird phrase). Because of the reverence of Newport furniture it is widely written about, but other than the Master Craftsman book, and the May 1982 issue of The Magazine Antiques, few show any real detail. I hope this helps.

                                                                  Rob Millard

1. 
   jazzdogg | Dec 13, 2003 03:08am | #8

   Rob,

   You're quite right: I'm interpreting, perhaps too freely. The Goddard - Townsend piece is a jumping-off point. Figure it "couldn't hurt" to see how the masters handled many of the details - rather than reinvent the wheel.

   The version taped to my walls and drafting table is a stand-up desk 3-feet wide, 7-feet tall, with the writing surface 40" from the floor. Below the writing surface are are a pencil drawer,  the pull-out supports for the desktop, and two laterally-oriented file drawers. "Pigeon holes" are built into the desk opening, and there's a glass-fronted bookcase above. Coved crown instead of a bonnet on top. Mahogany.

   Promises to keep me reasonably busy and happy next semester!

   You're a true gentleman. Thanks for your detailed response.

   Paul

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

   Edited 12/12/2003 7:12:56 PM ET by jazzdogg

4. 
   ownersrep | Dec 12, 2003 07:56pm | #4

   If I understand your question right I think JackPlane is right (recessed piano hinge).  The open view of the desk looks like that's what they use.

5. 
   NCguy | Dec 12, 2003 10:45pm | #5

   Looking an old copy of Moser's "Measured Shop Drawing for American Furniture" he shows a drop front desk-on-frame with the top dovetailed and of couse no overhang. However, just about all of his chests and other case goods of the same vintage ( mid 1980's) featured dovetailed tops with an applied molding. I suspect that the top on the desk in question employs this feature.

   LR Smith    

6. 
   Biscardi | Dec 14, 2003 05:05am | #9

   I think the question is how to attach the sides to the horizontal flat top?

   In the past I have used  half blind dovetails on both sides to attach a board flush with the top of the sides. I have then    screwed (from below) a second, prettier board  on top of the horizontal top. This does hide your dovetails. You can use slotted screw holes, but you aren't crossgraining anything. When you slide the gallery in no one will see the screws. This is very solid construction that looks nice.

   If you dont want to use piano hinge, you can use narrow hinges. Close the hinge and slip it into a vise so only the mated part extends above the jaws. Then close the vise and you will distort the hinge in a way so the lid will close properly.

   This looks like a good project which could be dressed up or simplified according to your tastes.

   Regards

1. 
   BG | Dec 14, 2003 01:52pm | #10

   Biscardi,

   You mentioned dovetailing the sides into the top.  Couldn't you mill up a thick piece of stock so that the half blinds would be recessed...with the tails in the side panels?...or would a top of that thickness look funny?

1. 
   Biscardi | Dec 15, 2003 12:46am | #11

   BG,

   I think it would look a little bulky if it were one piece. I m not sure.

   I suppose you could get  piece of 6/4, bevel the front edge and then cut 1 inch wide/ 1/2 inch deep tails on the sides.

   There are probably multiple ways to do it.

   Good luck,

   Frank