Good Morning All,
Yesterday morning I was out & about when I drove past a pile of
“trash” in front of someone’s yard in my neighborhood.
In the trash pile was a six board box measuring about 3′ wide,
16″ deep and 14″ high. Needless to say – I took about 3 seconds
to decide to stop and load this thing into my pick-up truck.
It is in pretty rough shape. What you may not be able to see in the
photos are:
– Bad water stains on the lid.
– Nasty mold inside the box
– Some sort of plasti-fabric liner.
Several questions I have on cleaning and restoring this little gem.
Can the water stains be removed without sanding thru the patina?
Or should the stains be left as a “feature”?
How to kill the mold? Watered down bleach solution? TSP?
How to remove plasti-fabric? Diluted fabric softener? Acetone?
How to best clean while preserving the patina?
This is not a fine / high value antique. So I can afford to do
whatever it takes to clean this up.
My wife & I are allergic to mold. Getting rid of the mold is a
priority above all else. If I can’t preserve patina while getting
rid of mold – so be it. Once cleaned I can use milk paint to
dress it up – but would prefer to keep it natural if possible.
What are your thoughts on best approach to clean & preserve?
Many thanks!
Bill-
PS – Sorry about the size of the photos! I can’t remember how to
make them smaller for easy viewing!
Edited 11/30/2009 8:15 am ET by Woodrat1 <!– WOODRAT1 –>
Edited 11/30/2009 8:58 am ET by Woodrat1
Replies
Let me try reposting the pictures of the six board box:
That's a great box.
I wouldn't do too much to it. Maybe start with a 2 separate 15% bleach washes on the interior for initial mold control followed with a steam iron near the plastic to see if it will back peel. If it won't and it's adhesive plastic covering, then find a corner and try to slowly add heat (heat gun) to peel it back, then follow with Naptha or mineral spirits to clear adhesive.
Outside, a very light quick wipe of a soap solution with a cloth steering clear of end grain and miter feet, followed by clear rinse to get rid of the grime. Let dry. Followed with a mineral spirit wipe down to cut old waxes. The wash first prevents the surface dirt and grime from invading open areas that wiping the spirts might push further into the surface. Real careful of the end grain and mitered areas.
Let really dry and then asses what stains or paint or blotches really must be attended to.
Love the nail holes. That piece will be great as long as you don't overly restore it. But if it is that bad, you can always Milk paint it and put a few Pennsylvania Dutch "Distelfinks on it."BB
It's a beautiful find. Ditto above, clean it up and I personally would leave all the character and just give it a good waxing.wotI started out with nothing...and I still have most of it left!
One other thought about the mold. The glue of the liner may be a source if was put in with mucilage or a vegetable glue like wheat paste....like wall paper paste. If it steams up, it may be an organic glue and that you can neutralize.
Again - great find. Truly, one man's trash is...
BB
Folks,Thanks very much for all of your input.
Looks like BoilerBay hit it on the nose from the get-go.
This will be one of two "Winter Projects" that I have on my plate.I'll post pics as soon as it's done - which will likely be in the Spring!Happy Holidays to all.Bill-
I agree with boilerbay. He has given you a good clean up sequence. I also agree with him that you shouldn't do too much. Avoid sanding.
Cleaned up, but with all the patina intact, this sort of antique could actually be rather sought after.
Once the mold has been killed and cleaned up, it won't return as long as you keep the box dry.
A man came by our office to talk about mold remediation services in buildings after floods. He claimed that bleach was not effect in killing mold. They had a different product they sprayed on to studs that they claimed killed and prevented mold growth. Unfortunately it was colored so that their clients could tell something had actually been done. Perhaps, whatever it is, comes in an uncolored version.
Mold to continue to grow requires a certain temperature range and humidity. The question is what kills it. I don't think freezing works, but raising the temperature to a certain point might. You might call a university extension office, or look in the yellow pages for mold remediation.
On the other hand, spalted wood is wood being decayed by mold. Perhaps putting a finish on spalted wood cuts of the oxygen and stabilizes the wood. Or after you have brushed and washed off the surface mold, moving the box to a dry location will prevent its spread.
Peter
There are lots of folks who claim bleach is no good. Trouble is almost all of them have something they would like to sell instead. Lots of snakes must die to provide all these proprietary products to kill mold.
Mold isn't very tough to deal with on furniture. Bleach solutions work. The key is to rinse AND to DRY the materials. Once you have dried the material and moved it to a dry location it won't be a continuing problem. Ensuring furniture stays dry is generally pretty easy. It's a bigger problem in some building situations where keeping the moisture levels in check is more difficult or expensive.
Here is a link to an article from LSU Ag Center about the limits of killing mold with bleach. lsuagcenter.com/en/family_home/home/health_safety/indoor_air_quality_mold/Bleach+Does+Kill+Mold++Within+Limits.htmI'm not sure I would want to flood an old pine box for 30 minutes with a bleach solution they say is required to be effective. Also there is the issue of how well bleach works on a non hard surface like wood. But as I suggested, another way might be to seal the surface and keep the box dry. I'm sure some biologist out there could tell how how you have to make it to kill the mold, but perhaps it is well above 451 F.
Steve on the right lines. Essentially what is needed to stop fungal activity is to change the conditions they like to conditions they don't. For a piece of furniture this easy enough-- just move it somewhere warm and dry. It's more difficult with fixed structures like buildings, fences, bridges, etc. This is where the fungicides come into play. Slainte.
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Fungi by and large like damp. They also like it warm with 25º-- 32ºC (77-- 90ºF) being ideal for most fungi, although animal disease causing fungi prefer body heat, roughly 37ºC (~99ºF). Fungi generally prefer acidic conditions at about 5 on the pH* scale.
*pH is a gauge of the hydrogen-ion concentration in, for example, the soil. It’s a measurement of alkalinity or acidity. The scale ranges from 1 to 14, with 7 as the neutral point. Numbers below 7 indicate acidic conditions, and above 7 is alkaline. The change in hydrogen-ion concentration is logarithmic. Each one point change in the scale indicates a tenfold increase or decrease in hydrogen-ion concentration, ie, soil with a pH value of 5 is ten times more acidic than soil with a 6 pH value.<!----><!----><!---->
Fungi and moulds also need oxygen to fuel their aerobic activities, although many do survive anaerobically, eg, alcohol is a waste product of yeast working anaerobically, but in the end too high an alcohol concentration kills the yeast. Outside the ideal conditions just described fungal activity tapers off. As woodworkers for instance we talk about ‘dry rot safe’ levels of wood moisture content (MC). This is wood at or below 20% MC and is one reason why construction grade softwoods and hardwoods are dried to slightly below this point. Activity stops in most fungi at temperatures greater than 40.5º C (~105º F) and lower than 4.5º C (~40º F). All fungi have a range of temperatures in which they thrive, and the range varies from species to species. Some prefer temperatures at the upper end of the scale and others prefer lower temperatures. For example the cooler autumn months in Great Britain herald a burst of fungal activity including rapid growth and the development of fruiting bodies on leaves, stumps and vegetation. High enough temperatures kill fungi completely whilst extremely low temperatures means either death or dormancy for many. Raise the temperature to a suitable level in the case of fungi that can withstand cold and they resume their activity.richardjonesfurniture.com
All of the above seems correct to me. However there are 2 situations which will prevent a complete kill.1. Spores. Some moulds form very resistant spores which can survive many years. These spores will also have a good resistance to bleach. You may need to repeat the treatment after a few days. This will zap the mould which "hatches" from the spores.2. If the mould has penetrated deep into the wood the bleach may get used up attacking the wood before it reaches deep enough into the wood. However dry conditions will cause the mould to sporulate and the spores will stay dormant until you or your descendants throw the box out and it get wet from the rain.There are fungicides which are not chlorine based and are formulated to have a low surface tension and thus penetrate deeply into porous materials. If you find one of them you could use it AFTER the bleach treatment(s) and after the wood has dried out thoroughly.I can't help you with brand names as I have only used these agents industrially (I used to buy them in 10 gal packs by the ton) but they are effective.
Yes we can cause dormancy in mold, but what kills it seems to be the question. I just wondered what temperature you would have to raise the wood to kill the living organisms that are a bother. Would placing it in a kiln used to dry woods raise the temperature to the point you would essentially have a sterile material.
NO NO. NO kiln. And it might not even kill the spores.
That little box is a gem. Might have been a tool box, since it is a little small. And it is a nice old one--the little "liner" around the top is a nice piece of work.
I would wipe down with the bleach, let it sit in a covered place, and repeat and repeat. It will go away.
I can't see the stains on the top. But I would clean it as has been described. Then wipe it down with mineral spirits and see what it looks like all over. A nice light sanding will not ruin the patina at all. This will be a honey!! Lucky duck!! Good eye
Gretchen
Sorry, this should have been to the OP or all.
Even if it is sanded and finished with some varnish, etc. it will be a really really nice piece. No need to paint it at all.
Edited 11/30/2009 4:47 pm ET by Gretchen
My reading indicate that it's very difficult or impossible to completely eliminate fungal infection through chemical treatment such as copper-chromium-arsenic, copper-chromium-boron, disodium octaborate, or creosote. These treatments, as I understand it, at best hold back fungal attack when wood is used in damp locations, eg, as fence posts or other ground contact, or in situations where the wood regularly becomes and remains wet.
High heat treatment will also kill fungal infection, but there are problems here too. Firstly, high heat treatment on its own sets fire to the wood. So to get the heat into the wood a fire preventative medium is required to carry the heat and eliminate burning. Water is one method and this is used in the high heat treatment of wood done for the purposes of changing its colour, as in the example of birch which turns a dark chocolate brown, or for the purpose of improving durability, eg, pine or spruce used for construction materials. Colour change occurs at a lower temperature range and increased durability is imparted with higher temperatures. Treatment at the elevated temperatures last between about half an hour for colour change purposes, and four or five hours for increased durability. Temperatures used in the treatment vary between 150ºC and 250ºC (302- 482ºF).
So, in answer to your question I suspect there is very little that can really kill fungal infection, and then guarantee that reinfection or reactivation won't occur. The best that can be hoped for from what I make of it after studying the subject in some depth, particularly if you cannot keep wood dry enough, is to hold back the fungal attack for period; and hopefully that period is long enough for your needs, or perhaps budget. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
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