Good day everyone! I’m looking for your expertise to help me make a decision. I have the opportunity to buy a large amount of air dried hard maple for $2 bd ft. It’s 8-10’L X 12-18″ W – all 4/4. I’ve got pictures of the lot and it looks to be stickered properly. I have not inspected the wood yet as the seller lives about an hour away and I wanted to have a higher comfort level with the product before I make the trip. Here is my concern. I’m told that the wood was sawn in Feb, stickered indoors, and his latest moisture reading was at 12-14%. I have a hard time believing that the moisture would get that low in less than a year. And from my understanding (which is limited) one wouldn’t expect the MC to get lower than 12% by air drying alone (I’m in Omaha, NE btw). My intended purpose for this wood is to build a kitchenette/bar in my basement so it will be used for the face frames, raised panel doors, & drawers. I’ll start the cabinet building process in a couple months (need to finishing drywalling first).
Should I be concerned with a moisture level at that point after only 9-10 months?
Should I even consider building cabinets with a moisture level that high?
I’ve only bought lumber in the past from hardwood dealers with moisture levels more around 7%. This is my first attempt to deal in this manner. Any thoughts you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
– Steve
Replies
I would buy a moisture meter and verify the moisture content myself. You can find a decent one for $120.00.
I'm not sure if 14% moisture content is too high for cabinets. My gut feeling is you would be OK, but I'm just guessing.
Bill
Take a moisture meter with you to check out the wood. Pull a few boards out of the interior of the pile to check. If it looks good why not buy it even at 12%MC and let it stand for a while at your place? The higher the MC, the more you can bargain the price down.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?lang=e&id=1
There is an often repeated rule of thumb for air drying that says dry the wood for one year per inch of thickness, plus one year. It's not really very accurate. There are timber yards all over that can verify that. For instance one yard near me air dries ash and maple outside down to about 20% MC from green in about four to six months. He doesn't put the piles under a protective roof of any sort. After that, if you want it drier you need to either kiln it or restack the wood under a protective roof of some sort. More time consuming to dry are oak and other woods.
18- 20% MC is about as low as you'll ever get wood dried to here in the UK, but your local conditions may very well allow the wood to get drier than this. It depends on the typical temperature and relative humidity experienced in that area during the drying period.
As others have said, take a long a moisture meter and check the moisture content. As it is maple, do look out for sticker stain, although if it's dried as fast as you say this may not be a problem. Slow drying is the cause of sticker stain, and this doesn't seem to have dried to slowly for that, but you never know.
12- 14% is a bit higher than I'd like to make internal furniture, but you could let it dry a bit more in a relatively dry building with decent air flow. Get it down below 12 %, ideally about 10% MC and you should be able to work safely enough. Slainte.
richardjonesfurniture.com
12% in that period of time is definitely possible. I can get down to 12% here in GA in 4-6 months on poplar, cherry, and walnut, however, the more normal average equilibrium outside moisture content that I achieve is more like 14 -15%. Oak takes longer, more like 6 to 8 months.
I know that because I have a nice wagner moisture meter. I dry under drying sheds with good air flow. At that moisture content and price, I would jump on it.
One thing to look for though. Maple is notorious about developing a gray oxidation stain if the air flow in the stack is not adequate and the humidity stays too high for too long early in the air drying process. This in not a fungal stain, but rather a chemical reaction. It can leave bluish or gray splotches in the wood after you plane it, making it less attractive for staining or natural finishing. If you have a paint application, then it should be fine. Ask the seller about the gray stain and check out a few pieces to make sure the wood is good and white. You may have to skip plane a few subject pieces to verify the quality.
>Should I be concerned with a moisture level at that point after only 9-10 months?
I'm not an expert, but my first experience drying maple, cherry, ash, and basswood in a humidity controlled building found them at 8-9% after only a few months. Stickered but did not paint the ends or strap them down, unfortunately. I can tell you the maple and cherry develop mold very quickly, especially near the bark. The ash and basswood behaved very well and came out straight but with end checking. Already milled some of both successfully. Maple and cherry are sappy and that probably helps the mold grow. They also cupped and warped a bit. Thicknesses were 5/4 to 8/4.
Next batch (almost same mix) has been painted with anchor seal, stickered, and strapped just last month. I expect them to be dry by spring.
I'd say your vendor's 'inside' location has pretty high humidity if it dried that slowly. I know the advice here is usually a year per inch but that does not seem to apply at all indoors.
Andy
The wood could easily have reached 12% MC, without damage, since it was stickered last February, it all depends on drying conditions. Whether or not the wood dried without damage is another question, but the simple fact that it has reached 12% MC in 8 months isn't a red flag by itself.
No matter what moisture level the wood is when you purchase it, 7%, 12%, or 15%, makes little difference, since once the wood gets into your shop it will gain or lose moisture depending on the relative humidity of the air in your shop. In fact, unless you live in an exceptionally dry environment, the stock you are buying at a supposed 7% MC will almost certainly be gaining moisture until it reaches a 10% to 12% MC once you take it home.
What you want to avoid is having the wood gain or lose moisture once you start using it, because in that case the stock would be changing shape and dimensions even as you worked, making tight joinery impossible. The solution is to bring the wood into your shop weeks or months in advance to allow it to reach an equilibrium with your shop's relative humidity.
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
This thread got me thinking that I haven't taken a MC reading in quite a while (the meter's battery was dead), but I'm building two tables right now - one a small kitchen table, and the other a bathroom table/vanity with drawers. And these pieces are going into homes in California's bay area, where today's relative humidy is about 48%, and the air temp is about 65-degrees
So I took readings of the two species I'm using: the cherry dining table, of kiln dried lumber, 4/4 and 10/4, each read at about 8 to 8.5-% MC; the walnut bath table, of very aged, air dried 8/4 read at 8.5%, and some 6/4 kiln dried lumber read also at 8.5%. Those readings were from a calibrated Delmhorst J-2000 meter, set to each specie and the ambient temperature.
I'm slipping, because I've always been very conscious of my wood's MC, even when I was building wooden boats, which demanded air dried lumber, and nearly green white oak for steam bent frames. For shoreside furniture, I've always demanded wood be dried to 10% MC or less.
I think your material should be drier, but I think maple at above 10% might be okay for face frames - depending on how wide the pieces are, but I wouldn't use wood above that MC for door panels or door rails and stiles. Wood movement months from now would be a real bummer.
Do as the others say: get a good meter. I prefer one with pins that accurately reads to the middle of the piece.
Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
"Wood movement months from now would be a real bummer." Short of storing the finished piece in an absolutely air tight box the wood will move months from now no matter what MC the wood is when the piece is built. Wood, no matter how it is dried initially, will continue to expand and contract forever with changes in the relative humidity.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Of course it does! I should have said, "Excessive wood movement....." That was my own bad editing.Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
Now we're on the same page.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Well, it's good for the other readers that you're keeping us all on that page.Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
Now we're on the same page... Of what book? ;>)
I do have a question. One poster mentioned about strapping down the 'sticks'. Just a question because I usually do not dry my own wood. I have but not often.
Would not strapping down the wood give you a false sense of the 'natural' state in which the wood would have dried and maybe warp/cup/whatever after it was released?
Sort of like looking a fine board and it turns out to be reaction wood when you rip it.
"Sort of like looking at a fine board and it turns out to be reaction wood when you rip it."Been there done that, and it always happens when you haven't got another piece to replace it.I don't think there is any great harm in strapping or weighting a pile, the wood in the lower half of the stack is under considerable pressure in any case, so strapping just means that all of the wood is treated the same. As far as I know, wood that has been restrained from moving, or forced flat, will rapidly return to its preferred shape in a matter of minutes to a few hours so any wood that is inclined to move after coming out of a stack will probably do so before you start to use it (and hopefully before you buy it).John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Thanks to all for your input. I made the trip last night and got about 140 bd ft worth of the maple.
Steve
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